03-30-98 19:59:42 *** Log Activated #VOICE (E:\INTERNET\GTIRC30\#VOICE.log)
03-30-98 19:59:58 <WarpGuru> Welcome everyone, to this special IRC session which features Sam Detwieler, OS/2 Guru Extrodinaire, and expert in OS/2 device drivers.
03-30-98 20:00:20 <Sam-> hey spell it right (Detweiler!!), first hit
03-30-98 20:00:54 <WarpGuru> Mandie invited him to be here tonight, and so I will turn it over to her, after I spell Sam's name correctly...that's DetWeiler! Sorry.
03-30-98 20:00:57 <Headache> cool not moderated
03-30-98 20:01:04 <TheSeer> hehe
03-30-98 20:01:12 <WarpGuru> We will be moderated.
03-30-98 20:01:57 <mandie> Sam, Thank you for coming and also for the excellent support that you provide to the OS/2 community!
03-30-98 20:02:25 <Sam-> Mandie, thanks for the invitation, its rare that I get this kind of opp
03-30-98 20:02:44 <mandie> Sam: well, maybe we can make you a *regular* visitor :)
03-30-98 20:02:57 <WarpGuru> Yes, I would like that also, Sam.
03-30-98 20:03:02 <mandie> Madodel: would you like to take over and explain the +m
03-30-98 20:03:11 <Sam-> Now that I've got the relocation behind me, I'd be glad to come by regularly
03-30-98 20:03:27 <I-O> Too ask a question please /MSG the moderator with the alphabetic range of the first letter of your nick
03-30-98 20:03:28 <mandie> Excellent!
03-30-98 20:04:06 <mandie> Sam: it would be very helpful if you would subscribe to our VOICE help mailing list..we don't get alot of traffic but the more knowledge the better :)
03-30-98 20:04:14 <I-O> You will be put in a queue, and when it is your turn you will be given voice to ask your question
03-30-98 20:04:34 <Sam-> Mandie, will do
03-30-98 20:04:39 <mandie> thank you
03-30-98 20:05:41 <A-H> I'll toss out the first question:
03-30-98 20:06:02 <Sam-> ready, get set,
03-30-98 20:06:12 <A-H> Sam- What can you tell us about the driver support for the >8.2 (8.4) gig IDE drives
03-30-98 20:06:46 <Sam-> The IBM1S506.ADD driver that supports >8.2 gig is in final test, and I'm using here on my machine as I type this note
03-30-98 20:06:58 <Sam-> we have a couple more problems to work out, and we're trying to
03-30-98 20:07:14 <Sam-> get some errors from FP35/6 fixed as well...
03-30-98 20:07:40 <A-H> Sam- OK....Thanks
03-30-98 20:07:41 <I-O> Too ask a question please /MSG the moderator with the alphabetic range of the first letter of your nick
03-30-98 20:07:48 <A-H> Now, on to the queue
03-30-98 20:07:53 <I-O> You will be put in a queue, and when it is your turn you will be given voice to ask your question
03-30-98 20:07:59 <Sam-> (ps, I'm running with a 12.9 and an 8.6 on an ABIT TX5 board)
03-30-98 20:08:34 <Sam-> maybe I should start by telling everyone where I fit in the big/little cog wheel..
03-30-98 20:08:39 <Headache> Sam-: I work on the audio part of a program called warpamp and the MWAVE cards have problems flushing the audio when using dart
03-30-98 20:09:03 <Sam-> ache, yes...
03-30-98 20:09:25 <Headache> is this a known problem (it sometimes takes up to a minute) and is there a fix/work-around for it?
03-30-98 20:09:54 <Sam-> this is a known problem, and there is no workaround. Also at this time, there is no planned fix,
03-30-98 20:10:21 <Headache> I use flushing of the audio device extensively when fast forwarding and rewinding the player
03-30-98 20:10:54 <Headache> so I should just disable the option if someone is using an MWAVE?
03-30-98 20:11:04 <Sam-> I understand.. MWAVE development on OS/2 is stablized.. not what I WANT to say, but the facts
03-30-98 20:11:41 <Sam-> (I have an MWAVE app too, see http://www.ole.net/~sdetweil)
03-30-98 20:11:47 <Headache> stabilized as in dead?
03-30-98 20:12:09 <Sam-> as in no functional enhancements planned at this time.
03-30-98 20:12:43 <Headache> do any audio drivers have enhancements coming? (full duplex support for SB's)?
03-30-98 20:13:07 <Headache> and I would call it a bugfix not an enhancement
03-30-98 20:13:22 <Sam-> ache, unlikely.. the focus for OS/2 is the enterprise customer, and it is unlikely they will fund this development
03-30-98 20:13:42 <I-O> Too ask a question please /MSG the moderator with the alphabetic range of the first letter of your nick
03-30-98 20:13:44 <Headache> yech I hate hearing about those people =)
03-30-98 20:13:52 <I-O> Too ask a question please /MSG the moderator with the alphabetic range of the first letter of your nick
03-30-98 20:14:02 <I-O> You will be put in a queue, and when it is your turn you will be given voice to ask your question
03-30-98 20:14:03 <Sam-> ache, me too,
03-30-98 20:14:12 <eilex> thanx
03-30-98 20:14:31 <eilex> I'd like to ask if DVD is or will be supported under os/2
03-30-98 20:15:10 <Sam-> currently there is no plan for full DVD support. There is work going on to support DVD media for data
03-30-98 20:15:30 <eilex> may I ask 1 more?
03-30-98 20:15:36 <Sam-> go
03-30-98 20:15:36 <P-Z> sure
03-30-98 20:15:39 <eilex> ok
03-30-98 20:16:14 <eilex> are GRADD going to have features like on the fly resolution change or color depth?
03-30-98 20:16:47 <eilex> what about small fonts support and GRADD?
03-30-98 20:17:18 <Sam-> those are features that the developers would LOVE to add, if we had a customer that wanted them. This is a very challenging time,
03-30-98 20:17:39 <Sam-> there is tons of fuction us developers would LOVE to add, but the purse strings keep
03-30-98 20:18:06 <Sam-> saying no... (kinda likeme wanting a ferrari, and my wife being unhappy)
03-30-98 20:19:03 <P-Z> Since now there is support for ZIP-Drives and stuff, what about the "read/write-proction" and "password"-stuff provided by these drives ? e.g. the "standart" Zip-Tools don't work with these drivers
03-30-98 20:20:00 <Sam-> well, I wrote a prototype of the protect and wps protect functions to insure that the new interfaces worked. I am working with Iomega to get them released, but this hasn't happened yet
03-30-98 20:20:49 <P-Z> but will come though ? what about the SparQ (or whatever syquest's new thing is called..)
03-30-98 20:21:09 <Sam-> 'but will come through'????
03-30-98 20:21:38 <P-Z> ahm.. but you / IBM will release such a thing..
03-30-98 20:22:03 <Sam-> Sparq IDE works just fine. (as long as you disable DMA).. Sparq Parallel doesn't work, but I see that this uses the Shuttle drivers, and they have one, and so maybe its just a test statement.. gotta get one
03-30-98 20:22:35 <P-Z> :-) ok... so one last question from me ;)
03-30-98 20:22:48 <Sam-> I/IBM cannot provide 'support' (aka a phone number and Q&A support) if I release them.. this is what Support means
03-30-98 20:23:24 <P-Z> i'd like to know if there will be a "multi-user"-file-system in some future (e.g. limit access on telnet-sessions..)
03-30-98 20:24:03 <Sam-> man, did you guys practice for ALL the hard questions with bad answers or what??
03-30-98 20:24:16 <Sam-> No there is no plan for a multi-user filesystem or OS/2
03-30-98 20:24:28 <P-Z> ok. :(
03-30-98 20:25:03 <P-Z> WarpGuru: it's your turn..
03-30-98 20:25:10 <WarpGuru> I have been in meetings with IBM in which it was stated that IBM's biggest consistent development funding is for device drivers. Is this true? And what types of drivers are being developed? How is I2O going to affect driver development and OS/2 in general?
03-30-98 20:25:27 <WarpGuru> Sorry for multiple questions!
03-30-98 20:25:43 <Sam-> 1. yes, DD work continues to be near, or at the top of the pile..
03-30-98 20:26:07 <Sam-> I2O, which we where the very first to release drivers for, has promise, IF the hardware vendors can do the work...
03-30-98 20:26:22 <Sam-> This is NOT the cheap throw it together from parts stuff..
03-30-98 20:27:17 <Sam-> I2O really helps when there is a heavy interrupt stream and you can offload it by using a 'deep'intelligent' adapter... but then this is nothing new
03-30-98 20:27:47 <WarpGuru> Which implementations is IBM working on?
03-30-98 20:28:02 <Sam-> which implementations of what?
03-30-98 20:28:25 <WarpGuru> I2O
03-30-98 20:29:08 <Sam-> the I2O 1.3 spec level driver is on the DDPAK (everyone knows where the DDPAK is right??) and has been since October.. we want to get the 2.0 level driver out too..
03-30-98 20:30:41 <Swanee> Hope this isn't a repeat... Realizing support will now be for the enterprise customer, will most new drives, sound cards, video drivers etc be supported (available) as widely as the Device Driver cd for Warp4 has done in the past or does enterprise support cut down on the breadth (number and type) of devices available? (swanee thinking in terms of future purchases of hardware and obtaining drivers for them)
03-30-98 20:30:50 <WarpGuru> Thank Sam.
03-30-98 20:31:39 <Sam-> well, we have a mix.. for the devices that the E customers will want, they will still go on the DDPAK, and thank goodness that most of the new systems have this new hardware....(hint hint)..
03-30-98 20:32:18 <Swanee> I have to say thanks and run Sam... I'll be bacckkk...
03-30-98 20:32:26 <Sam-> for those that don't my dept tries to find ways to get these requirements into the pile.. I see that my spinning devices guru (and coworker) is lurking here..
03-30-98 20:35:22 <I-O> Sam: What is the status of USB support under OS/2?
03-30-98 20:38:52 <A-H> everyone hold on minute.....we'll have Sam back
03-30-98 20:38:52 <A-H> netsplit
03-30-98 20:39:14 <P-Z> Please stand by until irc2.suntrix.com rejoins the network...
03-30-98 20:39:21 <I-O> dum dee dum net split
03-30-98 20:39:25 <mandie> whew :)
03-30-98 20:39:32 *** The topic for #VOICE is: Sam Detweiler here, TONIGHT! 20:00 EST (for current EST, CTCP TIME on
03-30-98 20:40:05 <Sam-> so what did you miss?? (I had fun I think)
03-30-98 20:40:10 <mandie> LOL
03-30-98 20:40:35 <Sam-> Anyhow, due to the silence, back to the cogs... we sit between the actual developers and the hardware vendors...
03-30-98 20:40:43 <Sam-> our job is to help the IHV's get their products to support OS/2... with ddks, samples, education, testing, and sometimes subsystem work...(liek I did on the removable media support)
03-30-98 20:40:49 <Sam-> so we do things that spin, put it on Paper, what you see, say again?, that lan thing, and small removables (pcmcia)
03-30-98 20:41:27 <I-O> Sam: Did you get my question before the split? What is the status of USB support under OS/2?
03-30-98 20:42:08 <Sam-> I-O, didn't see.. another one of the things on the development list.. that is REALLY bigger than expected...
03-30-98 20:42:30 <I-O> So it will be done eventually?
03-30-98 20:43:38 <Sam-> well, theres a question of what it means really.. We don't load drivers on the fly.. but you need to to 'properly' support USB.. so, 'properly/completely', probably never, some level.. I think so..
03-30-98 20:43:59 <Sam-> a-h, I can't identify him/her, that wouldn't be nice!!
03-30-98 20:44:23 <Sam-> persell, you're not gonna give me trouble too are you!!
03-30-98 20:45:55 <I-O> Sam: so no time frame on USB?
03-30-98 20:46:19 <Sam-> sorry, no.. but I doubt that it will be 98...
03-30-98 20:46:39 <I-O> :-(
03-30-98 20:46:49 <I-O> Go ahead os2hq
03-30-98 20:47:22 <os2hq> Thanks for coming, Sam. Now I've been reading up on the PC98/99 specs.
03-30-98 20:47:46 <Sam-> how do I reset my time limit, leave and come back??
03-30-98 20:47:51 <os2hq> They seem to be 100% windows-only. How will that affect the ability to get OS/2 to run on the new PCs and peripherals.... Will there be serious problems?
03-30-98 20:48:30 <I-O> To ask a question please /MSG a moderator with the alpha range of the first letter of your nick. They will place you in a queue and give you voice to ask your question when it is your turn.
03-30-98 20:49:06 <Sam-> certainly there will be a set of devices that will cause problems, and some not so bad. The vendors we've worked with all this time have been very good at continuing the support...but
03-30-98 20:49:19 <Sam-> hang on
03-30-98 20:50:26 <persell0> One of the jobs I have to do Sam and ???? is to see just how many hardware vendors are going full pc98-99
03-30-98 20:50:41 <os2hq> Hey Mike.
03-30-98 20:51:26 <os2hq> That's my question.... does "full pc98/99" imply that the PCs can *only* run Windows? Seems kind of pigheaded if that's the case.... given OS/2, Linux, DOS, BeOS for Intel, Novell, etc.etc.
03-30-98 20:52:34 <os2hq> Sam should change his name >
03-30-98 20:52:56 <persell0> There are many non-pc98-99 machines that will take years to support too. You may get some convenience by the spec but the existing hardware and users cannot be ignored
03-30-98 20:53:17 <Sam> did I get back??
03-30-98 20:53:21 <A-H> Sam yep
03-30-98 20:53:28 <os2hq> This is where I see IBM as smarter than some others.... There are some 200 million PCs out there....
03-30-98 20:53:28 <mandie> are you here?
03-30-98 20:53:53 <Sam> os2hq, can you repeat
03-30-98 20:54:05 <os2hq> How can they come up with specs that are designed to force them all into the scrap heap by forbidding peripherals, new hardware, etc. to work with them?
03-30-98 20:54:34 <os2hq> Sam, I'm basically saying what kind of trouble will PC98/99 cause???
03-30-98 20:54:53 <Sam> hey, they get away with it cause they provide CHURN today and 'standards' for tomorrow.. vendors get to sell NEW stuff, and MS doesn't have to do much..
03-30-98 20:55:44 <Sam> we'll see some trouble, but the E customers don't buy these as fast as you and I, so it'll be slower... the Y2K stuff will freeze 99 so there may be life around here for a while
03-30-98 20:55:45 <os2hq> Sam: yes.... but legacy stuff now numbers 200 million PCs. I'm concerned about PC98/99
03-30-98 20:55:50 <os2hq> and the impact on OS/2 Linux, etc.
03-30-98 20:56:24 <os2hq> Thanks, Sam, I find it funny to be relying on Y2K for good things. Next....
03-30-98 20:56:56 <I-O> go ahead mjoelner
03-30-98 20:57:01 <Mjoelner> ok
03-30-98 20:57:06 <Mjoelner> it's all pretyped =)
03-30-98 20:57:08 <Mjoelner> My question is somewhat related to the audio question earlier:
03-30-98 20:57:08 <Mjoelner> As I see it, distributed multimedia applications such as
03-30-98 20:57:08 <Mjoelner> multimedia conferencing over the internet, watching movies
03-30-98 20:57:08 <Mjoelner> over the internet, etc is something that most regular and
03-30-98 20:57:08 <Mjoelner> enterprise customers are likely to want.
03-30-98 20:57:13 <Mjoelner> This type of applications will rely heavily on good
03-30-98 20:57:13 <Mjoelner> underlying support in both the OS, the drivers and the
03-30-98 20:57:13 <Mjoelner> hardware.
03-30-98 20:57:15 <Mjoelner> Which in turn gets me to my question :-)
03-30-98 20:57:17 <Mjoelner> I'd like to hear your views on this and I would like to know
03-30-98 20:57:19 <Mjoelner> if MMOS/2 development is "stabilized" as well.
03-30-98 20:57:22 <Mjoelner> Also, should OS/2 as a client os be considered dead?
03-30-98 20:57:31 <Sam> well, a lot of the DD writing problem is knowing how the hardware works. Each vendor wants to be able to differentiate their product from the next guy, by pushing the spec boundary as hard as they can..
03-30-98 20:57:31 <mandie> os2hq: we're going to move on and let someone in the queue squeeze in now :)
03-30-98 20:57:31 <Sam> now.. I don't have a CLUE how the engineers wired the circuits, or their 'intent' and this is what makes it so hard..
03-30-98 20:57:32 <Sam> (ps, they don't want to GIVE away their added value, and couldn't most of the time anyhow)
03-30-98 20:58:24 <Sam> please repeat, my side cut you off
03-30-98 20:58:40 <Mjoelner> My question is somewhat related to the audio question earlier:
03-30-98 20:58:46 <Mjoelner> As I see it, distributed multimedia applications such as
03-30-98 20:58:46 <Mjoelner> multimedia conferencing over the internet, watching movies
03-30-98 20:58:46 <Mjoelner> over the internet, etc is something that most regular and
03-30-98 20:58:46 <Mjoelner> enterprise customers are likely to want.
03-30-98 20:58:54 <Mjoelner> This type of applications will rely heavily on good
03-30-98 20:59:02 <Mjoelner> underlying support in both the OS, the drivers and the
03-30-98 20:59:02 <Mjoelner> hardware.
03-30-98 20:59:02 <Mjoelner> Which in turn gets me to my question :-)
03-30-98 20:59:02 <Mjoelner> I'd like to hear your views on this and I would like to know
03-30-98 20:59:02 <Mjoelner> if MMOS/2 development is "stabilized" as well.
03-30-98 20:59:16 <Mjoelner>
03-30-98 20:59:26 <I-O> To ask a question please /MSG a moderator with the alpha range of the first letter of your nick. They will place you in a queue and give you voice to ask your question when it is your turn.
03-30-98 20:59:41 <Mjoelner> (maybe public flood protection kicked in =)
03-30-98 20:59:46 <Sam> I absolutely agree with you, and we have a list of these items that we take to the development mgmt team every chance we get..
03-30-98 21:00:10 <Sam> the problem so far is no customer in the target market (E) screaming that they can't get the job done...
03-30-98 21:02:22 <I-O> Perhaps because they are going to NT that already has such support, or has it promised?
03-30-98 21:02:23 <Sam> I'm I still connected??
03-30-98 21:02:30 <Mjoelner> yes
03-30-98 21:02:37 <Mjoelner> I was waiting for the MMOS/2 part =)
03-30-98 21:03:02 <Mjoelner> I have one more quick question
03-30-98 21:03:11 <Mjoelner> I work with headache on WarpAMP and we're getting a lot of emails regarding MWave problems. Since it's obvious we cant do anything about the situation, where should we tell ppl to turn when they want to request updated drivers (ie apply pressure on IBM to fix them :-)
03-30-98 21:03:24 <Sam> oh, well as 'general' platform, yes, MMOS2 is stablized.. there are specific work items that will be done to address customer issues..
03-30-98 21:04:03 <Sam> remember, OS/2 is no longer (hasn't been for 2 years) considered a retail, general public, product. so that changes the way things are worked...
03-30-98 21:04:42 <Sam> on the MWAVE front you've got to tell me which platform, cause it makes a difference..
03-30-98 21:04:59 <Mjoelner> OS/2 of course =)
03-30-98 21:05:16 <Sam> hardware platform.. thinkpad, Aptiva, ....
03-30-98 21:05:32 <Mjoelner> both
03-30-98 21:06:49 <Mjoelner> I could go look in the lemail logs, but basically I think we got most platforms covered in our bug reports =)
03-30-98 21:07:00 <Sam> ok, Aptiva is considered a retail product, and as such there is no planned additional OS/2 support for MWAVE... Thinkpad, is a much more perplexing problem... we have fixes, but sometimes can't get them shipped for the general public due to support cost concerns...
03-30-98 21:08:35 <Sam> anyone have any opinionson the removable media support? Did I get it right?
03-30-98 21:09:08 <WinSuxx> Sam-: I heard rumours about Hardware-Open-GL-support within GRADD-drivers, is there some truth in those rumours?
03-30-98 21:09:21 <WinSuxx> Sam: sorry, nothing about removable... :-)
03-30-98 21:09:36 <Sam> thats on the list of wants too.. development on some pieces of it..
03-30-98 21:09:46 <WinSuxx> Sam: cool... thx...
03-30-98 21:09:52 <WinSuxx> Sam: one more...
03-30-98 21:10:00 <Sam> ga
03-30-98 21:10:22 <WinSuxx> Sam: will new chipsets for PCMCIA / PCCard be supported?
03-30-98 21:11:38 <Sam> (you guys MUSTA practiced takin turns!!)... on the list, some work being done, won't be everything
03-30-98 21:11:57 <WinSuxx> thx, that's it from me... :-)
03-30-98 21:11:58 <Sam> sure
03-30-98 21:12:17 <petpipe> thanks for being here..i have it pretyped and hope i won't get kicked
03-30-98 21:12:24 <petpipe>
03-30-98 21:12:34 <petpipe> I don't know if this was asked..but, I was wondering on IBM's support for newer products that take use of the newer buses that are currently being designed in newer motherboards...e.g.: 100mhz bus with faster ram, is there a need for drivers that will enhance Warp's ability to use them more effeciently than other OS's?
03-30-98 21:13:46 <petpipe> Also, I was talking to Denise Lacy at IBM's networking div... and he said OS/2 Warp can run on the alpha with some timing problems...is that true....that is the only Q i have...
03-30-98 21:14:27 <Sam> if end of q was "OS's" then answer is no particular need for special drivers for fast bus.. there will be some device classes (AGP for example) that will need some work to exploit, but these wil get done in time (it will NOT BE at product release time)
03-30-98 21:14:34 <Sam> sorry what is the 'alpha'
03-30-98 21:14:52 <petpipe> DEC alpha
03-30-98 21:15:07 <petpipe> 500 mhz?
03-30-98 21:15:10 <Sam> can't answer on that one..
03-30-98 21:15:15 <petpipe> thanks
03-30-98 21:15:59 <petpipe> next
03-30-98 21:16:20 <I-O> Go ahead P-Z
03-30-98 21:16:37 <I-O> That's Intel's Alpha now. :-P
03-30-98 21:16:41 <I-O> BTW
03-30-98 21:16:54 <P-Z> [04:10:07] <*Headache*> tell him we dont have any removable media cuz it took so long to get support we are waiting for the next wave =)
03-30-98 21:16:54 <P-Z> [04:10:40] <*Headache*> then ask him if the a:drive is supported with the removable media stuff that is now available
03-30-98 21:17:07 <P-Z> (just some stuff Headache asked me to paste in here..)
03-30-98 21:17:32 <persell0> tough crowd Sam
03-30-98 21:17:36 <Sam> a:drive aka LS120 is supported now, see the DDPAK Removable Disk section..
03-30-98 21:18:09 <Sam> p, never liked the easy crowd... no challenge..
03-30-98 21:18:45 <Sam> p, you using ISDN tonight?
03-30-98 21:18:53 <persell0> 128k
03-30-98 21:19:10 <Sam> p, good thing I kept that other BS
03-30-98 21:19:20 <MHA> Sam: Syjet parallel...EPST.ADD moved to before IBM1S506.ADD as per your suggestion to someone I know ... first boot GREAT BUT all reboots FAIL. What can I try now??
03-30-98 21:20:07 <Sam> warm or cold reboots (I expect warm).. what chipset please??
03-30-98 21:20:10 <MHA> (getting that "Blue SOD" saying OS/2 can't read HD or floppy)
03-30-98 21:20:20 <MHA> Both warm and cold boots
03-30-98 21:20:33 <MHA> Intel 440LX
03-30-98 21:20:52 <Sam> hm.. power off hangs again??
03-30-98 21:21:08 <MHA> hangs every time.
03-30-98 21:21:28 <Sam> this sounds like the download epst.add, try the latest from the shuttle web site
03-30-98 21:21:47 <MHA> URL please?
03-30-98 21:22:19 <Sam> looking it up now..
03-30-98 21:23:21 <Sam> http://www.shuttletech.com/
03-30-98 21:24:02 <MHA> Thanks Sam - that should work? BTW- Ed says hi. : )
03-30-98 21:24:31 <Sam> actually http://www.shuttletech.com/os2inst.htm
03-30-98 21:24:58 <Sam> say hi back!!
03-30-98 21:26:03 <Sam> hey, I'm outta coffee... any extra ??
03-30-98 21:26:12 <persell0> Some of the hurdles that Sam and I face is that the corporate large (5000+) customers have a goal of cutting the cost of workstations and workstation support in half by 2000. To get an idea of the support costs, take the time you fiddle with your own systems and multiply the hours by $50 and then by 5000 workstations. I support the drivers after Sam writes them.
03-30-98 21:26:19 <P-Z> ok.. i'm running on SCSI only.. Every time i have an AUDIO-CD in my CD-Rom and i try to select the "Drives"-folder the system "hangs" for some seconds until the system finds out, it's not a data-cd ... any ideas to stop that ?
03-30-98 21:26:21 * I-O passes Sam some java
03-30-98 21:27:29 <Sam> p-z, I put code in Warp 3 to stop this.. should still be there..
03-30-98 21:28:01 <persell0> I get it too Sam. Adaptec controller without switches on the add or flt
03-30-98 21:30:18 * mandie thinks Sam outta reg that client :)
03-30-98 21:30:39 <persell0> Hey Sam...you want my spare GTIRC client
03-30-98 21:30:57 <mandie> hehe
03-30-98 21:31:54 <mandie> he's got problems...
03-30-98 21:32:19 <A-H> everyone hang in there ... we'll have this fixed in a minute
03-30-98 21:32:35 <Sam> lost power here
03-30-98 21:32:50 <persell0> Router too?
03-30-98 21:33:05 <Sam> didn't put the BS on the UPS.. darn.. router still in MI
03-30-98 21:33:23 <persell0> You in Austin?
03-30-98 21:33:30 <Sam> yep
03-30-98 21:33:39 <persell0> Dallas just got hammered too
03-30-98 21:34:17 <Chris> I wanted to write scanner drivers for OS/2 but looking at the SCSI stuff
03-30-98 21:34:34 <Chris> just got me fustrated and confused. What's the best way to start writing a driver like that, that
03-30-98 21:34:49 <Chris> sits on top of IBM's SCSI support, but is hardware specific?
03-30-98 21:35:28 <Sam> well, you use ASPI, and a small driver.. you Open YOUR driver, Ioctl, then call the OS2ASPI driver via IDC (interdriver call) and voila..
03-30-98 21:35:53 <Sam> the reason for your small driver is that OS2ASPI needs physical addresses.. a dumb design problem back when the DOS version was done..
03-30-98 21:36:21 <Chris> Do I have to use ASPI? Is ASPI the thing I should be using?
03-30-98 21:36:29 <Sam> I've got most of a twain stack done...fell apart when I got to capability negotiation..
03-30-98 21:36:52 <Sam> well, you gotta send SOME command to the scanner.. and we don't know anything about them...
03-30-98 21:37:24 <Chris> Like I said, I couldn't get past the basics... I was wondering what to read to get to the basics and move on
03-30-98 21:37:36 <Chris> I have the Umax development docs for my scanner series
03-30-98 21:38:43 <Chris> I'm confused because Advanced SCSI Programming Interface seems like it would be unecessary on OS/2
03-30-98 21:38:58 <Chris> I would think there would be an OS/2 SCSI programming API, is there one?
03-30-98 21:39:48 <Sam-> took another hit. BS now on the UPS
03-30-98 21:40:08 <Sam-> chris, send me a note at firstname.lastname@example.org with a number and I'll call you
03-30-98 21:40:22 <Chris> ok thanks
03-30-98 21:41:25 <A-H> Sam- Any word (at all) from VIA and their effirts to support OS/2 with their chipsets?
03-30-98 21:42:14 <Sam-> Via remains unwilling ti give technical support.. They point at their manuals, but refuse to answer questions.. (this is like trying to drive a car while in a truck going the other way...)
03-30-98 21:42:50 <persell0> Are you specifically talking about the EIDE?
03-30-98 21:42:54 <Sam-> they've been trying to make their own diver from our base, which we keep changing cause of the new drives/chipsets, etc...
03-30-98 21:43:01 <A-H> OK.....thanks....I got BETA level drivers from them, but was wonderring if anything had changed
03-30-98 21:43:26 <Sam-> p, yes.. VIA makes an Intel clone...
03-30-98 21:43:27 <Sam-> M, 15 mins more.. gotta eat
03-30-98 21:43:35 <A-H> persell0 yes....the EIDE Busmastering drivers
03-30-98 21:43:43 <Sam-> a-h, wish something had changed...
03-30-98 21:43:55 <petpipe> thanks for bearing us sam
03-30-98 21:44:00 <petpipe> here is my question
03-30-98 21:44:05 <Sam-> hey, no problem..
03-30-98 21:44:05 <petpipe> There was once a thing called os/2 for PowerPC. 1) is it still in existence, 2) is it going to be improved, 3) are they any new hardware platforms os/2 may run on other than the intel?
03-30-98 21:44:35 <Sam-> short answers.. 1) no, 2)no, 3)no
03-30-98 21:44:39 <petpipe> LOL
03-30-98 21:44:42 <petpipe> ok...
03-30-98 21:44:45 <petpipe> do u konw why?
03-30-98 21:45:12 <persell0> Shall I Sam?
03-30-98 21:45:23 <Sam-> long answer.. I wanted to port the kernel to C and put it on Power, then change the kernel later to mK if need be.. this failed to win tptb's favor, and we see what we got with the offical plan..
03-30-98 21:45:48 <petpipe> i like the short answer :)
03-30-98 21:45:56 <petpipe> thanks..hope food is good...next
03-30-98 21:46:23 <Headache> How come IBM is so willing to fall behind the times with hardware support?
03-30-98 21:46:25 <Headache> The [E] customer, while being more reserved then the rest of us will expect
03-30-98 21:46:25 <Headache> almost all support from all hardware, when they cant get it they will surely
03-30-98 21:46:25 <Headache> run to NT since it already has the support they need and will have it when
03-30-98 21:46:25 <Headache> they need it not 6 - 9 months after they say they need. Sure we personal users
03-30-98 21:46:25 <Headache> want it right away, but we are just a prelude to what the [E] customers will
03-30-98 21:46:26 <Headache> want and by then it may be too late. Shouldnt they be jumping in and
03-30-98 21:46:27 <Headache> developing in anticipation of what their customers will want? Getting back to
03-30-98 21:46:28 <Headache> what persell0 said wouldnt it be cheaper for them to have drivers that are
03-30-98 21:46:31 <Headache> somewhat mature rather then having to keep upgrading them too?
03-30-98 21:47:55 <Headache> sorry =)
03-30-98 21:48:24 <Sam-> well, WE, IBM CANNOT write EVERY DRIVER in the world.. period. WE don't have the bodies, time, money or skill, MUCH less the proprietary knowledge that the vendors have.
03-30-98 21:48:47 <Sam-> I will help ANY hardware vendor that wants to write support for OS/2, and DO every single day..
03-30-98 21:48:57 <Sam-> MS doesn't write ANY drivers..
03-30-98 21:49:41 <Headache> but shouldnt IBM be more agressive.. we know they arent the leader in the OS field that puts them in a diff position then m$
03-30-98 21:50:27 <Swanee> Why is it that people like Via, for example, seem to be unwilling to cooperate with you at times? I would think that, were it my company, I would welcome the help.
03-30-98 21:50:27 <Sam-> I want them to be more agressive, and do what I can.. but when push comes to shove, I can't MAKE drivers appear out of thin air
03-30-98 21:51:10 <Sam-> I wish I could explain that too.. it would seem to me that almost free help is, well, almost free
03-30-98 21:51:26 <Swanee> No kidding... Thanks Sam next...
03-30-98 21:52:03 <mandie> last question
03-30-98 21:52:23 <persell0> Look at Compaq's site under Whitepapers and OS/2
03-30-98 21:52:25 <Freiheit> Sam-, I *think* the question was more in line of why doesn't IBM go after hardware manufacturers more to write their own OS/2 drivers
03-30-98 21:52:34 <Freiheit> not so much why don't you write more of them yourself
03-30-98 21:52:41 <Freiheit> that's all I had to say :)
03-30-98 21:53:23 <Sam-> we do go after them, we talk to them every day.. they have the same pressures we do.. return on investment.. and shareholders to answer to that have tough (hey is that you guys???) questions...
03-30-98 21:53:46 <Sam-> its not cheap to do this stuff, and they know it.. and if they can get IBM
03-30-98 21:53:56 <Sam-> or somebody else to do it FOR them... guess what..
03-30-98 21:54:30 <A-H> First of all, I'd like to thank Sam for joining us, tonight.
03-30-98 21:55:20 <Sam-> always a pleasure (I hope I'll be invited back!!)
03-30-98 21:55:23 <A-H> Sam, you've been (and continue to be) a GREAT source of help and information to OS/2 users, regardless of the number of site licenses.
03-30-98 21:55:59 <A-H> We here at VOICE have dedicated ourselves to supporting the Individual and SOHO OS/2 users around the world
03-30-98 21:56:06 <Sam-> i'll continue to be in the ng causing trouble (if I can), but helping out where possible..
03-30-98 21:56:20 <A-H>
03-30-98 21:56:42 <A-H> No trouble that I can see....just a lot of useful information coming our way
03-30-98 21:57:04 <Sam-> darn, then I'm not pushing hard enough!!
03-30-98 21:57:56 <A-H> Anyway, you all can expext to see more special guests and more support on many different subjects, here in the #voice channel, and in the VOICE mailing lists
03-30-98 21:58:16 <A-H> But, you have to support us in our efforts to support you
03-30-98 21:59:01 <A-H> In that sense, at some time (in the not-too-distant-future), these special "Speakup" sessions will be open to VOICE members only
03-30-98 21:59:14 <Sam-> see ya... mjoelner send me a note at email@example.com
03-30-98 21:59:39 <A-H> Bye, Sam .... And, thanks, again!
03-30-98 21:59:44 <mandie> Thanks Sam!
03-30-98 22:00:08 <Sam-> no prob..will be in FH this weekend
03-30-98 22:00:21 <mandie> we feel that we need to offer our members an advantage that isn't offered to the public...our routine meetings will still remain open to the public as will our mailing lists
03-30-98 22:00:42 <A-H> Visit our website at http://www.os2voice.org for more information on membership and ongoing projects
03-30-98 22:01:23 <A-H> Now, this meeting is open to discussion
03-30-98 22:01:29 <mandie> btw, Robert Mauro developer of AccuCount/2 is tentatively scheduled for 4/20/98
03-30-98 22:01:40 <Swanee> swanee is glad he joined
03-30-98 22:02:13 *** Log Terminated.