General Meeting from 01/06/03

<WalterOS2> This meeting of VOICE is now in session. Bang.
<WalterOS2> Have you all read the agenda?
<WalterOS2> If not, the agenda is at .
<WalterOS2> Item 2 on the Agenda: Treasurer's Report
<Projects> 317 members, $8374.67 CDN in the kitty
<WalterOS2> Anyone want to convert that to US funds? or EU
<jer0> whats that from last year at this time?
<WalterOS2> Projects?
<Projects> jer0: as of last month
<WalterOS2> Do you know what it was a year ago?
<Projects> not offhand... that'll take some digging
<WalterOS2> Agenda Item 3: Business arising from the Minutes
<Sector> $8374.67CND = $5367.14 USD, 5138.87 Euros
<WalterOS2> a. In May 20 mtg, Judy McDermott proposed that WalterOS2 be kept on the BOD as an Advisor or Board Member at Large.
<WalterOS2> This was approved by Walter and Sector. However it was never voted on.
<Rat-Salad> I definately don't have a problem with Walter overseeing things
<MADeCSPro> I think before there is a vote on that there has to be change to the bylaws first to allow additional board members
<Sector> But does it have to be a board position¨
<Projects> Drat... I can't get the records from last year 'cause they're at the office (just remembered, I used christmas week to do some catch up for Voice business)
<jer0> MADeeCSPro: would you be okay with a tempo
<jer0> temporary motion till the bylaws are updated?
<WalterOS2> Mark: Do the bylaws call for a fixed number of board members?
<Sector> No, but there are fixed positions
<WalterOS2> Does that rule out additional positions?
<MADeCSPro> The bylaws only mention the set positions - Pre, VP, Secretary, Liason, Marketing
<Sector> Not if the bylaws are changed
<jer0> how about an advisorary committee?
<WalterOS2> I think jer0's idea is workable, then.
<MADeCSPro> I'm all in favor of increasing the BOD
<WalterOS2> Of a temporary position.
<MADeCSPro> More people to do more
<WalterOS2> Mark, what is the process for updating the bylaws or increasing the board size?
<Sector> Increasing the size of the BoD requires changes to the bylaws which has to approved by the members.
<MADeCSPro> "Amendments to the bylaws may be processed by action of the Executive Board or by a petition to the Secretary of five (5) or more members. Notice of a proposed amendment must be distributed to the membership at least one week prior to the formal meeting at which discussion is expected."
<MADeCSPro> "Amendments to the by-laws shall be voted on at formal meetings. A majority of the votes is required to carry the proposed amendment."
<Projects> what constitues a majority? Out of 317 members, there's 14 here...
<WalterOS2> OK, well there's no urgency to this vote as far as I'm concerned. We can wait until the next meeting and do it right.
<Sector> The votes are from those present
<WalterOS2> Traditionally, we take a majority of those president.
<jer0> the Executive board can add the amendment too
<MADeCSPro> Projects: well a strict reading would appear to mean a majority of those present at a formal meeting
<Projects> MADeCSPro: that works then... good.
<MADeCSPro> Note that in the Proposal section it requires notification of the amendment to all members a week prior to a meeting
<MADeCSPro> So can someone draft an amendment, and send it to the members list a week before the next meeting?
<WalterOS2> So in the next few days we'll send out a notification of the change to @members, and then vote on it at the next meeting?
* jer0 motions that notification be sent out to the membership so we can vote on it the next meeting
<WalterOS2> Is there a second?
<MADeCSPro> Second it
<MADeCSPro> Should the amendment only cover adding a singlr Member-at-large or more?
<jer0> I would recommend we allow just a limited BOD member at large
<WalterOS2> I would suggest more than 1; perhaps the wording could say from 1 to 3?
<Rat-Salad> what is there going to be a vote on? no one has sent bios except me and Vaughn?
<WalterOS2> We're going to have an acclamation, I guess.
* WalterOS2 notes that the vote specified in a.ii is tabled until the next meeting.
<WalterOS2> Agenda 3b: Current Nomination Ballot
<WalterOS2> For election of officers.
<MADeCSPro> Wait, who is going to draft the amendment?
<jer0> the Secretary?
* WalterOS2 apologizes for leaving Jeremy Workman's name out of Liaison Officer position.
<WalterOS2> Mark: That's logically the sectretary's job. :-)
<WalterOS2> So the corrected Nomination Ballot is
<WalterOS2> 1) President:-
<WalterOS2> 2) Mail Server Admin: - Vaughn Bender
<MADeCSPro> Mail Server Admin is not electable is it?
<WalterOS2> 3) Marketting Rep: - Vaughn Bender
<WalterOS2> 4) System Admin:- Jeremy Workman
<Rat-Salad> no, mail, and sys admin aren't BOD
<WalterOS2> 5) Liaison Officer: Jeremy Workman
<Sector> When the bylaws where drafted those positions didn't exist
<Projects> sysadmin and mail server admin are only support roles
<MADeCSPro> jer0: Those positions would be appointed by a vote of the BOD. Problem is there are only 3 current BOD (The VP hasn't showed up for a year now)
<Rat-Salad> though I thought me and Vaughn were already admins..
<Sector> 2 current...
* Projects did get an email from Wayne btw... says he can't devote time to Voice, but will pay his dues
<jer0> Projects: are you saying Wayne offered his resignation?
<WalterOS2> Mark, Sector:--I really don't know where to go from here.
<Sector> We need to draft a new bylaws if we make new BoD positions
<Projects> jer0: not in an official capacity
<WalterOS2> I don't want to make new BOD here. If some of these positions aren't board or officer positions, then let's put them where they should be.
<WalterOS2> Sector, this Nomination/Election problem has been hanging around for months. Why are you bringing up the bylaw issue only now?
<Projects> message sent to wayne
<Sector> It has been brought up before
<WalterOS2> Not just you, of course. :-)
<MADeCSPro> Actually it has been discussed several times over the years
<Projects> jer0: I don't expect to hear from him for a couple of weeks, knowing his schedule
<Blackbird> # New positions may be added to the Executive Board when deemed necessary by a majority rule of the Board.
<WalterOS2> Projects said Wayne is stepping down as VP.
<WalterOS2> Mark: What positions are new?
<Projects> Walter: he didn't say so officially, just as a hint
<MADeCSPro> WalterOS2: None, I said it was discussed, never actuakky actioned
<Sector> The executive board is: President, Vice President, Secretary, Treasurer, Liason, Marketing
<WalterOS2> OK, let's at least deal with Liaison and Marketing.
<Blackbird> 5. A majority rule of the Board can result in the removal of an officer from his/her position if the Board rules that the officer is not fullfilling his/her duties or is not abiding to the by-laws of this document as well as the Code of Ethics.
<WalterOS2> Blackbird. I think we should do it.
<WalterOS2> I move that we remove Wayne from the office of Vice-President for not fulfilling his duties.
* MADeCSPro seconds Walter's proposal
<Projects> Let's give Wayne 2 weeks to respond to my message
<MADeCSPro> If we just vote to elect Liaison and Marketing that would give the necessary BOD members to get it overwith
<Projects> WalterOS2: he's basically already said it, but not in an official capacity... he can't spare the time for Voice any more
<MADeCSPro> Can't we just get that done and overwith?
<WalterOS2> Mark: Everytime I try to get something done, you say I can't do because of some technicality in the by-laws.
<MADeCSPro> That election has been hanging around for months. The BOD needs more members to get on with business
<WalterOS2> Mark: How do *You* want to proceed to get that over and done with?
<MADeCSPro> Just ask for a vote on the existing candidates. There has been more then enough time and we actually have some members present to vote
* Sector seconds that
<WalterOS2> But there is another motion on the floor.
<MADeCSPro> WalterOS2: I'm not trying to give you a hard time, just trying to get things done correctly. The issue of adding BOD members hasn't been officially brought up until tonight, at least of late.
<MADeCSPro> I motion we vote on the existing candidates for Liaison and Marketing.
<WalterOS2> Is there a second?
* Sector seconds the motion
<WalterOS2> Is there any discussion?
<WalterOS2> All in favour, type Aye.
<jer0> Aye
<Projects> aye
<WalterOS2> Aye.
<Sector> Yup
<MADeCSPro> Aye
<WalterOS2> WarpedOS2 votes Aye.
<WalterOS2> All opposed, type Nay.
<WalterOS2> Carried.
<MADeCSPro> Hip Hip Hurray
<WalterOS2> Rat-Salad, please update the Officers' table on the VOICE web site.
<Rat-Salad> I'm.... liason now right?
<Sector> Affirmative
<WalterOS2> Mark, since your the expert, how many members of the Board of Directors to vote on a motion?
<WalterOS2> are needed
<MADeCSPro> Yes. which motion?
<MADeCSPro> To remove a BOD requires a majority vote of the BOD
<WalterOS2> OK, well we have 4 members of the BOD here now.
<MADeCSPro> To change the bylaws requires a majority vote of members at a formal meeting.
<WalterOS2> I believe that's a majority. And that doesn't count me.
<MADeCSPro> Once we have the bylaws change then we can officially add you :-)
<MADeCSPro> BTW I'm no expert, I'm just reading the bylaws:
<WalterOS2> 3c?
<WalterOS2> E-Store Page: That's my cryptic code for an electronic-store on our web site.
<jer0> what would be offered for products/services?
<WalterOS2> It's something we almost did last spring, but it got stalled for a number of reasons. The membership list wasn't working and we couldn't do elections or polls or anything.
<WalterOS2> That was the big one.
<WalterOS2> That's the idea, yes.
<WalterOS2> As far as I'm concerned, it's still on the list of things to do.
<jer0> well lets do it then
<jer0> has there been any info published in the newsletter about it?
<WalterOS2> Membership, maybe Software, T-shirts, etc.
<jer0> I find it hard to purchase software except through bmtmicro
<WalterOS2> It never got beyond the investigation stage, because we were unable to present it to the membership for a vote.
<jer0> it would be nice to be able to purchase shrinked wrapped software...or at least media & manuals
<jer0> I think a common problem is getting the membership together...does everyone agree?
<Sector> I can agree with that
* Projects agrees
<jer0> obviously there is a lot of details to work out with the e-Store
<jer0> perhaps we need to have a meeting just to discuss that subject....when we can get more members involved
<WalterOS2> No one really knows why the turnout is as small as it is. Some of think it's because everyone is so busy.
<jer0> I see an immediate need to get the members together
<Projects> and there hasn't been a speakup in years (so it seems anyway)
<jer0> that is the Crisis of VOICE
<WalterOS2> We have to keep the meetings interesting. When we got into the political wrangle earlier, people left in droves.
<jer0> I agree
<Sector> Well, we now have a Liason person to arrange Speakups again
<WalterOS2> Not having a full slate of officers has really hurt us. I had to resign the Presidency for health reasons, and there were already several officer positions missing.
* jer0 motions that the e-Store agenda be tabled till we can get more of the membership is their $ after all...isn't it
<WalterOS2> jer0: Unfortunately this was one of those times. I'm partially responsible because I don't don't the BL as well as I should. :-(
<WalterOS2> Agreed. Let's move on.
<WalterOS2> 4. New Business.
<WalterOS2> We've already done a. and b. :-)
<WalterOS2> 4c. Report on VOICE Hosting and Mirroring
<WalterOS2> This is a subject that has come up in the WarpDoctor meetings, I'm not really sure why.
<jer0> isn't someone mirroring VOICE already...or is it just a backup
<Sector> Backup, currently no mirror
<MADeCSPro> There use to be a mirror on
<Sector> It came up in WarpDoctor cause we where discussion mirroring the WarpDoctor site
<MADeCSPro> I don't know if that still exists
<WalterOS2> For several years(?) until May of this year, VOICE had it's server (VOICE1) hosted free of charge by Internet Walkabout run by a VOICE member. Exactly. We have one machine there, but when it goes down or needs maintenance OS2VOICE.ORG is dead.
<MADeCSPro> Actually it looks like still works but is out of date
<Rat-Salad> I've been getting e-mails about ... from search engine listing agents hehe
<WalterOS2> In May Internet Walkabout was bought out by Internet Extreme, who has no interest in VOICE or OS/2. Until a few weeks ago, we aren't even sure the owner knew our machine was there. :-(
<MADeCSPro> Its kind of scary
<WalterOS2> We've since had to tell him about our server, and our previous relationship with IW.
<WalterOS2> We have not heard a word back from him.
<WalterOS2> So he could pull the plug on our system without notice.
<jer0> that is not good
<jer0> what kinda connection do we have
<WalterOS2> He could let us operate indefinitely as we have in the past.
<MADeCSPro> Hopefully we get more notice then RedBarn gave us
<Rat-Salad> thats for sure hehe
<WalterOS2> Or he could at some point the future decide to start charging for hosting our server.
<jer0> we are using his bandwidth though...if bandwidth prices go up...he surely will notice in that case
<WalterOS2> It's a scary position to be in.
<MADeCSPro> jer0: And if bandwidth usage goes up they will notice
<jer0> so what is the position with
<MADeCSPro> Right now our sites stats have been going down not up
<WalterOS2> We've been searching around semi-madly for alternative hosting and mirroring.
<MADeCSPro> At least for Not sure about or
<jer0> what kinda bandwidth do we need?
<MADeCSPro> jer0: right now we are on a T1 I believe
<WalterOS2> Yesterday a Power OS/2 user who just happens to own a business with an IT dept using OS/2 offered to host/mirror our server at no charge.
<jer0> great!
<WalterOS2> His name is Ken Kirchner. He's the author of eBayWatch/2.
* jer0 motions we accept his offer
<WalterOS2> There is one catch.
<jer0> I've used his program...a little bit
<WalterOS2> Right now he shares a T1 with some other businesses, and his bandwidth is not really enough for our needs.
<WalterOS2> Almost but not quite.
<jer0> for a mirror??
<WalterOS2> Yes, we think so. In fact Ken is working on that as we speak.
<jer0> why isn't the site updated?
<WalterOS2> In a few months, he expects to upgrade to full synchronous T1.
<Sector> No, he has a fractional T1
<jer0> and what is the position with it?
<WalterOS2> When that happens, there will be more than enough bandwidth for him and VOICE.
<WalterOS2> And he's willing to host it for free.
<MADeCSPro> jer0: No idea. They were mirroring the VOICE site when it was on BMT, but then stopped when we had all kinds of problems there.
<jer0> the site....are we officially recognizing them as a mirror at this point?
<MADeCSPro> Part of the problem wit hIW was that we never had an agreement in writing. It was all just a handshake
<Rat-Salad> I don't even have login information for
<jer0> what are their terms?
<MADeCSPro> jer0: We did a long time ago, but after they stopped updating it that stopped.
<MADeCSPro> Rat-Salad: Larry Finklestein (I think that was who it was) just had a chron slurp the
* Projects believes mark is right... it was Larry
<MADeCSPro> VOICE never had anything officially to do with it
<jer0> could we contact him again and see if he'd update the mirror
<jer0> we need to get a written agreement for a set period of time
<jer0> also...anyone know what kinda bandwidth has?
<MADeCSPro> jer0: written agreement for what? Colocation?
<jer0> mirroring
<MADeCSPro> or the mirror?
<MADeCSPro> We never had anything official, the BOD just agreed to let ibmforum mirror the site. No requirements were set
<jer0> for that matter...we should have a written agreement with our server co-location too
* MADeCSPro agrees with jer0 on that
<WalterOS2> Written agreements are good.
<jer0> that way they can't just pull the plug for no good reason
<WalterOS2> Mark: Do we have any members in the vicinity of ThinkExtreme?
<MADeCSPro> jer0: The problem we have had in the past is that it was always done as a favor for us.
<MADeCSPro> WalterOS2: you should be asking Peter. I have no idea who members are
<MADeCSPro> or where memebrs are I should say
<WalterOS2> Mark: I thought you knew everything. (jk)
* jer0 thinks we should have a member database accessible for members via
<MADeCSPro> I assume IE is still in the Michigan area
<WalterOS2> jer0: Are you going to do it for us?
<jer0> I'ld help if thats what your asking...but not alone
<Rat-Salad> a listinng of members wouldn't be a big deal
<jer0> Rat: thats the spirit! :)
<Rat-Salad> I would do that, with Peter's cooperation
<WalterOS2> I don't want our members list (which includes my name and email) used for just purpose. I get enough spam as it is.
<jer0> well their should be conditions set on the database access
<Projects> it's easy to generate a members listing
<Projects> as a matter of fact, gets one every month
<MADeCSPro> We have never given out member info and we rarely send out posts on the member list, unless it is something directly related to VOICE.
<jer0> perhaps the listing should only be accessible for BOD and other positions and the teams
<WalterOS2> That would be better.
<wdl> Any listing of members should be UNavailable on the 'net!
<jer0> the info should only be availiable for matters directly related to VOICE
<wdl> Available to the BOD, surely, but NOT the 'net.
<Rat-Salad> is still going to Abel
<WalterOS2> RS: Can you change that?
<Projects> wdl: absolutely... not even to the rest of the members
<jer0> has the board replaced Abel?
<MADeCSPro> Has anyone heard from Abel in months?
<Rat-Salad> I can... just don't nesscarily know if I should do that.. don't know if Abel is actively using it or not
<WalterOS2> jer0: No.
<Rat-Salad> yeah, I have talked to Abel
<jer0> so he is then the current sys admin?
<WalterOS2> Sysadmin is not a BOD position.
<WalterOS2> Moving right along.
<WalterOS2> We do have a couple of more small items of business.
<WalterOS2> 4d. SSH Server has been enabled on VOICE1--a long time ago, actually.
<WalterOS2> SSH replaces Desktop on Command.
<WalterOS2> RS: Do you still want people to send in userid/passwords?
<Sector> No, it supplements it
<Rat-Salad> no, SSH doesn't replace Desktop on Call
<Sector> Supplements DTOC
<Sector> Not Desktop on Command...
<Rat-Salad> and yes, userids and passwords are to be sent to me
<jer0> DTOC+SSH sounds like a good arrangment
<WalterOS2> If anyone needs access to VOICE1 at the command line level, contact RS and give him your desired userid and password.
<WalterOS2> 4e. Send general email to @members to get new orders for NVC.
<WalterOS2> I'll take care that.
<WalterOS2> 5. Any Other Business?
* jer0 motions that the meeting be adjorned
<WalterOS2> Is there any other additional business?
<WalterOS2> Otherwise, the chair will entertain a motion for adjournment.
* Projects> makes the motion :-)
<WalterOS2> All in favour, type Aye.
<jer0> Aye
<Projects> aye
<sProject> aye
<WarpedOS2> Yea man
<sProject> :-)
<WalterOS2> Motion is carried.
<WalterOS2> Meeting is adjourned.
<WalterOS2> Before you rush off.
<WalterOS2> Would someone on the BOD like to make a motion regarding removing Wayne from office?
<WalterOS2> Wayne Swanson.
* Projects moves that we wait 2 weeks for a response from wayne... it might all be official by then
* Sector agrees
<WalterOS2> I don't think I can make the motion since I'm not yet a member of the BOD.
<WarpedOS2> Has he participated at all in the last while?
<Sector> No
<WalterOS2> I would go along with the motion, except that are we going to have enough members of the BOD present next time? You know how fussy Mark is. *g*
<WalterOS2> I don't think just hearing from Wayne is adequate, anyway. Unless he tells he's resigning. :-)
<WalterOS2> OK, I'm willing to wait for 2 weeks.
<WalterOS2> All in favour of the motion, type Aye.
<Sector> Yes
<WarpedOS2> Canadian AYE
<WalterOS2> Projects, are you in favour of your motion?
<Projects> aye
<Rat-Salad> aye
<WalterOS2> Motion is carried.
<WalterOS2> Project, please write Wayne Swanson an official message on your most OFFICIAL STATIONERY requesting clarification of his previous intention to resign as VOICE VP.
<Projects> Walter: sent it to him from my account