Rexx SpeakUp with Mike Cowlishaw (the "Father of REXX"), Dirk Terrell (Falcon Networking), Wayne Swanson (PillarSoft), and Chip Davis (President of the REXX Language Association) from 01/30/99

<Swanee Welcome to the Voice channel... As you all know we are here to discuss and learn about life with, and hopefully not without Rexx.
<TimurTabi well, I'm not running it on an SMP box either
*  MADodel has 2 SMP boxes and no WSA.
<Chip I'm in the same boat as Dirk.
<TimurTabi I was just wondering if anyone's ever seen a situation where the EA data is out of sync with the .CMD file, but OS/2 can't fix it.
<Swanee We are happy to have Dirk Terrell from Falcon Networking (recent changes, maybe BMT now?)
<MADodel But Aurora runs just peachey
<Chip Hi John! Good to hear from you.
<Swanee And... Chip Davis the President of RexxLA
<jjurban Hello all, REXX RULES!
<mandie John!!! hi :)
<Swanee And finally a guy that I'm sure no one has heard of...
<Swanee Mike Cowlishaw, The creator of the Rexx family of languages
<Dirk_Terr Who? :-)
<mfc AKA mfc :-)
<mandie that "Father" fellow :)
<MADodel Is this the Visual C++ meeting?
<Chip You know, the "fred" in TRL... ;-)
<Death_Syn oh boy, there goes my monitor..
<Swanee We'd like to have an orderly meeting so we would ask that you try to ask you "preprepared" question when there is a possible lull
<Chip was it something I said?
<jjurban FYI, Object REXX runs OK on Aurora beta.
<Swanee Hopefully we can get to all of them. If need be we will moderate to slow the flow of text so Dirk, Chip and Mike can keep up.
<Swanee Thanks and now I will open the floor. :)
<Ed Mike, what is your favored rexx flavor? why? what is it missing?
<mfc Rexx flavour, that is?
<Ed yes
<mfc Probably NetRexx at the moment .. as it has various bits I always wanted
<mfc to put into 'classic' Rexx but couldn't.
<mandie !ask netrexx
<VoiceBot [netrexx] NetRexx - (mandie)
<mfc I especially like line comments (--) .. now in Orexx too.
<mandie !ask or
<VoiceBot [or] Not found.
<CWBrenn Can you suggest a book that's a good beginners REXX book that covers all the new flavors of REXX out there? (anyone)
<trixer mfc, is it possible to have rexx 'talk' to a sql server running on a different OS?
<trixer kinda like perl?
<Longstaff trixer - that sounds like an odbc issue
<mfc Well NetRexx certainly can, via JDBC. Haven't used SQL myself..
<Ed there is a sample of code to do just that in njPipes
<rexxer Question: Now that IBM's indifferent about OS/2 aren't Classic and Object Rexx 'endangered species'?
<Chip Doesn't Mark Hessling have something to do that?
<trixer I was talking about opening a socket via tcp and talking on port 5432 or something. I never did learn rxsocket or whatever its called
<Xavi Question #2: is there any new development for classic rexx?
<mfc Endangered? Not at all -- my web site traffic is going up all the time.
<Swanee trixer: I believe there are external dll's that allow you to talk to sql depending on what platform you are on.
<Dirk_Terr Rexx is not OS/2 specific by any means.
<mfc Also (after a low ;point in 1995) my Rexx book sales are increasing every 6 months :-)
<GLEB mfc> Hello! What do you think about another ports, such as Regina, for example
<jjurban Our book sales are doink OK too.
<TimurTabi Here's my question rephrased: Can you talk about the mechanism where OS/2 stores the pre-compiled REXX script in the EA's, and what it would take for OS/2 to no longer be able to tell when the EA data is old?
<mfc Ports: I've been impressed how true to the books they all are.
<jjurban 'doing' I meant to say.
<Chip "endangered": I'm using Rexx on AIX in a large Y2K project. I'm writing more of it than ever.
<Death_Syn where can I get info about these REXX books? I've not seen them...
<rexxer are people writing in classic and object rexx for non-IBM platforms (besides Chip and me)
<mfc Books info: check out the Rexx web site
<rexxer I feel quite lonely you know
<mfc there's a books list linked on the front page.
<mfc Object Rexx for Win32 is selling rather well, I'm told...
<Chip Are you RexxLA member, rexxer? :-)
<rexxer Chip, no just an ordinary rexx programmer (and fan)
<Chip If not, I can fix that _real_ easy!
<mfc [I should have said 'my' Rexx site .. RexxLA is probably 'the' Rexx site, nowadays! :-)
<jjurban Sign him up Chip!
<MADvirc here use my line Sign here: ____________________________
<Chip That's kind of you Mike, but yours (like your book) is definitive.
<mandie !ask rexxla
<VoiceBot [rexxla] Not found.
<mandie hmm
<Chip It's
<rexxer Madvirk R e x x e r, there you go :-)
<Projects !op
<mfc Let me ask a question, then ..
<Swanee mfc: Can you tell us a bit about future plans for NetRexx? Is it true that there may be a VisualNetRexx in it's future?
<mfc What would people most like added to [whichever flavour of] Rexx?
<Swanee Oops... VisualAge for NetRexx
<rexxer keep the languages simple, mfc!!
*  TimurTabi wonders why his question is being ignored
<mfc Future plans: just got back from an IBM meeting in Austin which confirmed my proposals for IBM's scripting
<Swanee BootDrive for Classic Rexx
<Chip bootdrive is available via an environ. var. isn't it?
<mfc strategy .. you may rest assured that [Net and Object] Rexx are in there...
<Xavi Will NetRexx be included on Warp 5?
<mandie assuming there will be a Warp 5 :)
<MADvirc psha mandie
<Xavi (like it is included in OS/390?)
<mfc Though as usual can't speculate on specific product plans (sorry)
<Arkay gotta stay positive, mandie :-)
<MADvirc We'll see Warp 5 long before there is a winDOS2000
<mandie Arkay: Oh, I certainly am :)
<Swanee Chip: Not an api though, it's a search and destroy mission possible via several different means but no absolute way
<mfc NetRexx is free from website, so not really needed to be in Warp .. you can get most uptodate from website
<Ed more netrexx tools, ie a faster compiler and maybe an interpeted version
<Swanee mfc: Understood.
<mfc and it's easy to install.
<jjurban Mike, I'd like to see a 'Sorted Directory' class in Object REXX.
<jjurban So a do obj over mySortedDir returns in object order.
<Swanee jjurban: Make that for "Classic" too and you've got a deal
<JimLarson C o u l d w e t a k e a b r e a t h a n d g e t T i m u r ' s Q. a n s w e r e d.
<mfc sorted dir: for ORexx additions, best to go direct to developers (
<Chip Sorting is a weak area in general, but I'm not sure it belongs _in_ the language.
<Ed something like VM's pipes are much better suited to sorting/selecting etc
<mandie Timur: would you repeat your question plz
<TimurTabi Here's my question rephrased: Can you talk about the mechanism where OS/2 stores the pre-compiled REXX script in the EA's, and what it would take for OS/2 to no longer be able to tell when the EA data is old?
<jjurban What was Timur's question, I forgot.
<Chip And I can't wait to have the time to play with Ed Tomlinson's NJPipes.
<mfc I missed it forst time, sorry. As to the mechanism, I'm afraid I've
<mfc never seen the OS/2 Rexx implementation code, so I don't know the details of that particular mechanism.
<rexxer I never had Timur's problem though I use HPFS386 (through Warp Connect)
<jjurban For Object REXX - loops - I'd like to see some kind of optimization where it doesn't have to interpret all the statements each time through the loop.
<mfc As far as I recall, it's just a straight file timestamp comparison .. but HP386 SMP problems ring a bell.
<jjurban Timur, if the code is > 64K, I think it doesn't store it.
<mfc Check for service packs/fixes on the OS/2 website?
<TimurTabi it's only about 10 lines of Rexx code
<TimurTabi I'm running FP35
<TimurTabi I'll try a later FP, and I'll also try Object Rexx
<jjurban Also, it re-tokenizes if the source file date/time changes, I think.
<mfc Yes it should do (rre-tok if time changes)
<Swanee TimurTabi: Did you try stripping the ea's and rerunning the script? (I'm not sure exactly what this is about)
<TimurTabi swanee: I have to strip the EA's TWICE before it recognizes it
<TimurTabi even though the first time, there are no EA's
<TimurTabi after the first time, I should say
<_biz_ holy cow
<TimurTabi it's totally bizarre
<Swanee Really? I'd like to see it if you would care to send it.
<SunnyBear hi biz... told ya... :)
<TimurTabi well, there's nothing to send, really
<_biz_ heheh
<TimurTabi it just acts that way on my WS box
<_biz_ wow
<TimurTabi it happens with all of my rexx scripts
<Swanee OH, like any cmd file does it?
<TimurTabi well, I've only written a couple
<Swanee OK, that *is* weird :)
<Ed timur, I found OS/2 to be much more stable after a reinstall.
<TimurTabi some seem to be more susceptible than others
<WarpGuru jjurban: you are correct because the max size for EAs is 64KB
<TimurTabi ed: this is a fresh install
<Ed that makes it doubly frustrating...
<rexxer Timur: does that happen in plain HPFS?
<TimurTabi now that I know how to "fix" it, it's not that big of a deal
<TimurTabi rexxer: it only happens on my one machine
<TimurTabi my other OS/2 boxes don't have this problem
<freiheit Run CHKDSK recently? :)
<Chip Is it also your only multi-processor box?
*  GLEB has set away! (auto away after idling [15 min]) [Log:ON] .gz.
<Death_Syn Chip: its not multi-processor, he said it only runs SMP version
<TimurTabi well, it's WSA SMP but it only has one CPU
<Chip Question: Mike, has Sun shown any interest in NetRexx as an "official" part of the distribution?
<Swanee mfc: Is classic rexx still being tweaked or has it pretty much been set in stone and your work is on OB and NetRexx now?
<Ed Great question Chip!
<Swanee Do chip's first Mike
<mfc No, James Gosling thinks it's "cool" (actually his highest form of praise :-) .. but we haven't suggested that Sun ship it.
<JimLarson mfc: Has Microsoft ever wanted to license Rexx from IBM?
<mfc We keep thinking of adding it to IBM JDKs, but most people seem to prefer to download it from web.
<Ed PLEASE do suggest it Mike. In my eyes the biggest weekness of REXX is unix people *usually* do not know about it.
<Chip I don't want to use the term "preload" here, but...
<mfc Unix people: that's changing. Object Rexx for Linux, for example.
<rexxer Ed that's right: perl is ugly
<MADvirc suggestion: have them add a URL object to Warp 5 to do a download like they did for Netscape/2
<mfc Swanee: Classic Rexx is pretty much set in stone now, since ORexx is a superset.
<Chip and it's a Standard.
<mfc Jim: Yes, MS are quite keen on Rexx these days :-)
<Swanee mfc: Most work is with NetRexx now or is ORexx still developing
<jjurban MS are keen on which REXX?
<mfc [probably 'cos they want to try to get into the enterprise business, and customers there demand Rexx)
<Chip There are big enough smilies to make that MS comment fly...
<CWBrenn So is it now possible to run Classic Rexx scripts and apps with ORexx? (I seem to recall it being necessary to switch between one and the other in some situations).
<scoff Ed: I usually use rexx in os/2 but at work I wanted to run rexx in solaris, a big distraction for me in unix is that using regina is just really different, you have to sort of point the .cmd file to regina, it's weird, I'd rather unix rexx were more like os/2's
<mfc Object REXX has an offical IBM development group working on it. NetRexx is (until a couple of weeks ago) just me.
<MADvirc I'm sure M$ can make alot of useful improvements to REXX so that it only runs on windows
<rexxer question: Shouldn't NetRexx and OBject rexx have converged in notation (like ~ and .)
<jjurban We sold 4 copies of our 'Oz' program on Friday - massive vertical app writtem 100% Object REXX + DB2 + VTD.
<Ed what is the news on netrexx mike?
<Chip Switching Rexx on OS/2 was in order to get ORexx in the first place.
<Ed are you keeping control of the project?
<mfc MS Rexx .. not sure they know the differences between the flavours .. more want the check box ticked off.
<Dirk_Terr Just like MS :-)
<CWBrenn Chip: yes, but it was my understanding that this was because ORexx would not run some "classic" REXX scripts/apps in some situations.
<mfc ORexx & NetRexx .. ORexx design point was to be upwards compatible with classic Rexx
<mfc NetRexx design point was to be a first-class programming language for Java VM
<mfc Java mandates the object model, different from ORexx, hence language had to be different.
<mfc Once different, I was free to tweak syntax etc. for best results.
<Chip ORexx won't let you get by with having an error in a section of code that's never encountered. The OS/2 install script had such a situation, so they had to come up in Classic mode.
*  Swanee still uses Classic Rexx to be "all things to all people"
<mfc Ed: NetRexx is firmly part of IBM strategy now (as is ORexx) .. but yes, I still am 'in charge' of language design.
<mfc I expect there to be other implementations.
*  rexxer uses classic rexx as well - to be compatible with Regina
<JimLarson mfc: since Rexx is basically platform independent, can we have a RexxScript implementation similar to JavaScript?
<Chip Question for everyone: What operating system/platform does NOT have Rexx available?
<Xavi Macintosh?
*  TimurTabi would love Rexx for his Mac
<JimLarson Chip: VS1
<Chip I was under the impression there was a Mac Rexx
<scoff probably QNX doesn't...?
<rexxer Nokia Communicator (joking)
<CWBrenn Amiga?
<mfc Similar to JavaScript? For my sins, I'm Project Editor of the JavaScript standard (ECMAScript) .. not at all sure
<Toasty-X so is there a port for Windows 95?
<mfc I would like Rexx to be like that... :-)
<Chip VS1: right, and I don't think the IBM1620 had one either... :-)
<rexxer Qnx can use regina or rexx/imc probably
<Chip Nokia: (just wait)
<imc Jose Aguirre wrote one for the mac but I've no idea how good it is
<mfc Nokia: I can run NetRexx programs on my Palm Pilot (IBM Workpad)
<Chip Amiga: it was _the_ system language.
<CWBrenn Oh.
<mfc Win95: yes, get IBM Object REXX for Windows :-)
<rexxer Regina runs on Windows and its free (but not o-o)
<Chip Okay, I'll bite, "QNX"?
<rexxer does BeOS have a rexx implementation (not NetRexx)
<rexxer Qnx can use regina or rexx/imc probably
<jjurban QNX is a real time OS, isn't it?
<Toasty-X is RxSock available for IBM Object REXX for Windows?
<MADvirc QNX is mostly for embedded systems
<freiheit QNX, incredibly efficiently-coded UNIX (the demo boots into GUI with a JavaScript capable web browser from a 1.44MB floppy disk)
<jjurban QNX is for process control systems, I think.
<freiheit It's also the basis for the forthcoming new AmigaOS release.
<mfc RxSock .. Yes I think so. I know it has all the usual OS/2 stuff (RxFTP, RexxUtil, etc.)
<Chip BEOS: a good candidate. If anyone knows of someone working on a Rexx port, let me know.
<Ed Am I the only one that *really* misses pipes in non VM REXXes?
<mfc RxSock .. just looked on my laptop .. yes, it's there.
<rexxer We need more Rexx extensions like perl has, rather than more platforms IMO
<rexxer like a CGI module everyone agrees upon...
<mfc extensions: well with NetRexx you have total access to anything in Java .. no need for language-specific extensions
<Chip Hardly, Ed. I run into ex-plumbers all the time.
<CWBrenn If someone wanted to use REXX as a CGI language what would be the best version of REXX (Classic, ORexx, NetRex) to use, and what limitations would it have w/regards to cross platform use?
<CWBrenn (i.e., if you wanted it to run on Warp and Unix servers, what _shouldn't_ you do?)
<mfc (and the same binaries for the compiler run on any Java VM .. is there a JVM for BeOS?)
<freiheit mfc, not yet but they're working on one.
<freiheit (according to their website)
<rexxer I use rexx/imc in Linux for apache CGI scripts.
<mfc CGI: classic probably is slightly faster, though ORexx works fine.
<Dirk_Terr Well, I use Classic and Object Rexx on our Linux web server and the OS/2 server.
<Chip rexxer: have to looked at the free IBM ORexx for Linux?
<rexxer Chip: yes. Definitely is better. Rexx/imc is what I started using and I keep it while it isn't broken.
<Dirk_Terr You do still have to have some non-portable code though.
<CWBrenn How much? I mean, how easy is it to port from one to the other?
<jjurban Another request for Object REXX - I'd like to be able to switch the Mike on and off in VTD - I can't figure out how to do that with O Rexx.
<rexxer BTW, mike: I love GoServe. It's great for Rexx-based Web programming
<Chip Question for all: What is the impediment to using NetRexx.
<mfc switching the Mike on and off sound terrible, to me :-)
<Chip ?
<JimLarson Chip: documentation
<mfc rexxer: thnx
<jjurban For me, NetRexx is not automatically speech-aware, ie. Java isn't.
<Dirk_Terr Not much, mainly getting environment variables and deleting files, etc.
<Arkay Chip: I don't know Rexx :-)
<mfc jimL .. what don't you like about NetRexx docs?
<jjurban Unlike SOM objects, Java button captions, entry fields, are not auto speech-enabled.
<Swanee mfc: He would dream of switching you off I wouldn't think. :)
<rexxer impediment: It is a *compiled* language & it's java. 1000s of API calls. Not just for quick coding.
<Chip rexxer: good points.
<JimLarson mfc: I can't find any. Please port it to VM so I can order 3 inch thick manuals.
<mfc actually it's designed to be interpreted .. just happened to write compiler (translator) first ...
<CWBrenn Can't you compile "regular" REXX as well?
<Chip ...but it obviates a lot of the portability problems (not all, of course)
<Ed maybe an interpreter could be this year's project mike?
<mfc JimL .. check out my website .. plenty of docs (even a tutorial) there
<jjurban mfc: you mean NetRexx has an INTERPRET statement?
<Swanee mfc: I might take a moment to say that while html docs are ok, the OS/2 inf format is quicker, smaller and has a great search engine. (even though it has other disadvantages)
*  Toasty-X is away: (Autoaway after 10m) [Pager off]
*  Projects ^5's Swanee
<jjurban agree with Swanee on OS/2 inf vs html.
<JimLarson mfc: Please port it to VM so I can order 3 inch thick manuals.
<mfc interpreter: in fact the translator is structured internally as an interpreter... probably only a few weeks work to build interpreter.
<CWBrenn Swanee: yeah, like a relatively useless UI :-)
<Ed netrexx is already ported to VM Jim...
<mfc swanee: I provide HTML and PDF .. PDF is very similar to INF
<rexxer I think people are using NetRexx as a scripting language in Windows
<Swanee CWBrenn: We really need to be able to copy selected text (my major problem with inf)
<mfc Do need the docs to be cross paltform, too...
<mfc :-) Not only is it ported to VM, but it ships with VM (part of the OS)
<Swanee mfc: Yeah, I realize that also. Maybe one of us can take it upon ourselves to convert them to inf for OS/2 users.
<Swordedge the biggest problem with INF for rexx doc is lack of portability which html and PDF provide
<Ed that interpreter would, IMHO, really help netrexx to grow quickly
<Swanee Swordedge: Noted
<Chip ...even without INTERPRET.
<MADvirc How about writing an INF viewer in REXX?
<rexxer HTML is just fine. the browser can load a page faster than I can read it :)
<mfc swanee: the source is marked um in GML (not SGML), so INF would be pretty easy to do.
<JimLarson mfc: Good. I have a P390 with ESA 2.3, but I don't recall seeing any doc on NetRexx. I ordered the complete set of hard copy documentation, I will check again on Monday.
<Swanee mfc: Hmmm... we'll have to look into that. :)
<Ed actually if mike made an interpreter you could just use it to call itself and so you would have an interpret...
<Swanee MADvirc: There is a guy trying to write an inf viewer that will allow "copy selected"
<mfc VM: There's also a new RedBook on using Java and NetRexx on VM
<Ed the redbook is good and explains how to use java/netrexx without needing the posix shell.
<Chip May I take a moment to make two small plugs?
<mfc INTERPRET: it's there in the design, not implemented or doc'd tho :-)
<JimLarson great!
<Chip SHARE in SanFrancisco in Feb. will have a lot of Rexx, ORexx, and NetRexx talks on a lot of platforms.
<Ed imagine that INTERPRET would be very slow now...
<Chip The Rexx Symposium in Jacksonville, Fl in May will be ALL-Rexx, for 3 days.
<Chip Thank you, and we return you to our program...
<Swanee Chip: I should be considering the symposium
<Swanee Perhaps not a deep and meaningful question but... Do you ever sit back in your patio chair with a glass of... well... lemonade and stare at the sky wondering how you got to this point. I mean it has to be pretty satisfying to look back at your accomplishments.
<Chip See and (respectively) for further details.
<Swanee Not that you're getting old... :)
<mandie ahem
<Dirk_Terr I guess that question is for mfc :-)
<mandie lol
<Chip Yes, Swanee, I do that all the time... it's amazing you know, when I was young...
<Swanee hehe, yeah, I should have prefaced
<Swanee Chip: LOL!!
<mfc If directed at me, the answer is no: never lemonade :-)
<Swanee hehe, dark?
<Arkay beer?
<mandie warm
<Chip .. and that assumes he has the time to loll on his patio.
<mfc more likely a Pinot Noir or Rioja...
<Ed beer is good stuff. promised Mike one once after he fixed a netrexx bug one saturday.
<mfc Beer is best in Pubs :-)
<jjurban I think it's unanimous here - we all love REXX - lanuage for people, not computers - let's have a round of applause for Mike.
<Arkay Ed: you'd better pay up.
<Xavi mfc: good taste!
<Swanee mfc: I can't even pronounce them...
*  rexxer likes Rioja too :))
*  Arkay is giving a standing ovation!
<scoff in classic rexx, what is required to assure that memory is freed? If I have a stem astem. is astem. = "" sufficient or do I need drop astem. ?
<Ed will if Mike's travels ever take him to Montreal.
<mandie Be is NOT an official Java licensee. We'd love to see a JVM running on the BeOS, but we have
<mfc Xavi: my father was a wine merchant, so it's entirely his fault :-)
<Chip Or you can join us in Jacksonville, Ed.
<mandie oops...sorry :(
*  Swanee just passed on a trip to England in March
<Xavi mfc: as a Spanish, thanks for your comments to Rioja.
*  Arkay thinks Swanee is crazy
*  Longstaff would love to see the home counties again
<mandie Arkay: good judge of character you are :)
<JimLarson I just want to say that Rexx is the brilliance that IBM can be. So was VM. So could've been OS/2, but alas. Anyway, thanks, mfc.
<mfc Drop: the assignment will do it.
<Swanee Arkay: I didn't know if I could pay the bills whewn I got back
<Arkay Swanee: Why worry about tomorrow? :-)
<mfc Drop: one nice thing about Classic Rexx is that there's no aliasing, so there's not need for a garbage collector
<mfc all storage is immediately recoverable when it becomes unused.
<mfc m thanks, Jim.
<Swanee mfc: Aliasing?
<Arkay I've got a question. This may have been asked before, but is there a possibility for a Visualage for Rexx?
<mfc aliasing: more than one reference (name) for one piece of storage
<mfc VARexx .. we were going to do one years ago, but VX/Rexx and VisPro Rexx cornered the market...
<Dirk_Terr VA for NetRexx would be extremely welcome in these parts.
<Chip ... and neither of them is currently being marketed (or supported AFAIK)
<Swanee VX & VisPro: Nicely done too from my perspective
<Dirk_Terr I used VX/Rexx quite a bit (still do) but it is dead. And the VA design is much better.
<mfc VA for NR .. we're moving away from a different tool for each language .. expect to see more multi-language tools
<Arkay mfc: But those haven't been updated in a while. Plus, as Dirk and others said, VA NetRexx would be great!
<Xavi VisPro rexx is still marketed and supported.
<Projects !op
<Swanee Chip: VisPro is but lightly
<rexxer Xavi: yes and it doesn't necessarily need the runtime
<WarpTEN I'd love a VANetRexx as well
<jjurban VisPro is a great development tool. I love it.
<Chip Well, the author has moved on to other projects, and Rexx is fairly low on his list these days.
<Swanee mfc: Multi? As in Java based?
<mfc Multi: as in JVM based
<Longstaff i have a question about the C-REXX sample programs bundled with va c++ 3.0. where can i find instructions about integrating rexx into a c++ wrapper?
<Dirk_Terr The VisualAge people know what "object-oriented" means. I just wish they wouldn't write the tools in Smalltalk. :-)
<mfc C++ .. I beleive there's a pretty extensive set of samples
<Ed a Visual Age product that supports many langs would be nice espically if there were hooks so one could tell it about other langs...
<mfc (samples in the Rexx tree somewhere)
<Chip ... and as long as it doesn't cost an arm and a leg...
<jjurban Another request for Orexx - I'd like to see a rexx-ified OpenGL.
<Ed Yes. A liciense for GPL use would be nice.
<Longstaff i've looked at length for any reference to rexx in va c++ help....i really need some guidance with this
<Ed ie if you GPL the results the fee is much reduced.
<CWBrenn A license for GPL use would be the GPL
<mfc C++ .. check out the samples that come with Rexx
<Xavi mfc: I am just curious. Can you describe us which kind of computers do you run on your daily work.
<mfc computers: I have two fairly old (P167) dektops running OS/2 (one at the office, one in my study at home .. where I am now)
<Dirk_Terr Longstaff: Eric Guigerre put some code in the public domain to do it in C. I'm sure you could take that and wrap it in a C++ object. Email me and I
<Dirk_Terr will see if I can di it up.
<mfc .. and a ThinkPad 600 which I use when on trips (150 days, in 1998) runnin Win98. Makes a nice slave machine running acrobat distiller when I'm at home :-)
<Death_Syn I use Aladdin Ghostscript for my distiller... works under OS/2 quite well with Rommel's printmon
<Chip aren't slaves supposed to obey commands... :-)
<Death_Syn also free
<mfc Also still use VM (mostly for forums and SCRIPT) and an IBM Workpad (PalmPilot 2)
<Swordedge Unfortunately, you have to run W98 for a distiller with decent compression..
<Death_Syn Sword: yeah...
<Death_Syn but I just gzip it anyway
<Death_Syn very few documents exist on my sytem in a non-compressed form that cannot be read directly via script or other
<Death_Syn all my locally stored html is gzipped, as is postscript and pdfs
<Death_Syn REXX makes processing these easy :>
<Death_Syn has anyone come up with a REXX interface for palmpilot?
<mfc I keep getting requests to do a Rexx interpreter for the Pilot .. but my question is, what
<mfc would one actually use it for?
<Dirk_Terr Longstaff: Look at the last entry here:
<Ed I have used njPipes (which generates netrexx code) many times to make adhock programs...
<mfc I suppose macros for Palm Globe would be possible... :-)
<jjurban Another request for Object Rexx - a 'Network' environment directory - like the 'global' environment, but across all stations on the network. I ain't asking for much, am I?
<Death_Syn a rexx interpreter for the pilot would seem to be a bit large for use, to me
<Chip Pilot: all I want is to be able to HotSync to OS/2 natively.
<mfc Size: not necesarily -- my original Rexx interpreter (for S/370) was a smidge under 32K
<Death_Syn mfc: wowie
<mfc (I wanted it to fit in 8 pages, so on a paging drum it would be loaded in a single rotation... )
<Chip oh, does that ever take me back!
<Dirk_Terr Weren't those fun days.. :-)
<mfc that interpreter didn't have the I/O functions (LINES/CHARS etc.) .. another 8-10K perhaps.
<mfc Ah them days .. just wish I'd had 1's ads well as 0's to work with like they have nowadays... :-)
<Ed have you ever considered using a subset of pipes in place of LINES/CHARS etc?
*  SunnyBear is back from the dead. Gone 3 hrs 31 min 37 secs
<Swordedge Sounds a little like coding embedded systems in C... No printf since that library takes to much space.
<mfc Pipes (you'll hate me for this) .. have never usde them .. they came along just after I moved from VM to OS/2 for most development
<Chip The worst thing about Pipes is the name. Everyone thinks they know about pipes from Unix.
<Death_Syn I need to see what it would take to convert something like TiK from tcl/tk to orexx...
<jjurban Pipes? I smokes 'em all the time.
<Death_Syn probably woudl be easier to write from scratch with tictoc docks
<Death_Syn -k
<Chip ... but you don't inhale...
<rexxer So what are those pipes about (sorry)
<Ed Think the pipe model for IO is amoung the most flexiable out there.
<Swordedge jjurban: What do you smoke in them?
<Death_Syn pipes are my saviour
<Death_Syn just wish I knew how to talk to them over smb in linux
<Death_Syn Ed: I agree
<Ed Pipes smoke records in VM and objects in netrexx/java
<Chip Question: what is the current state of play on the MS Windows Scripting Host re: Rexx?
<Ed to the tune of 50K/sec in VM (9121) and 15K (njPipes 0.47 PII 266)
<rexxer Ed can you point me to a URL about pipes?
<Ed !ask njpipes
<VoiceBot [njpipes] Not found.
<Ed you can start at
<mfc Rexx for WSH: ask Christian Michel :-)
<JimLarson mfc: Shat do you see as the future of PC OSs? Will it be completely NT dominated, or is there a fighting chance that other competitors will survive?
<JimLarson Shat = What
<rexxer Thanks Ed
<Ed it has a pointer to the main pipes page at princeton.
<rexxer thanks Swordedge
<Ed the version on my page is more recient than the one at hobbes.
<mfc NT etc: perhaps the question is 'how long will the PC model survive'?
<mfc But I see a future for other OSs, yes.
<Ed or what will it evolve into?
<Swordedge What I would like to see probably won't happen... One server in your house and diskless workstations for everyone else. MS won
<Swordedge that is ms won
<Chip IMO, the PC model will survive until installing/maintaining a NOS is as easy as an OS.
<JimLarson mfc: Are you involed with projects at IBM other than those that are Rexx related?
<Swordedge I keep hitting the return instead of '... won' let it
<Ed suspect PCs will be here for quite a while. What they run and how they do work will probably change rather drasticily.
<CWBrenn IMO, the PC model will survive for as long as paranoids like me don't trust the future to NC's
<mfc Other projects: yes, e.g., I help run the IBM Academy of Technology
<jjurban mfc: What do you mean by the 'PC Model?'
<mfc And am currently doing a lot of work on Decimal arithmetic ..
<Swordedge what does the IBM AofT do
<mfc .. derived from ANSI Rexx, of course :-)
<Ed hense bigdecimal
<mfc See:
<rexxer mfc: I know a day for you has also 24 hours, but are you or someone else maintaining GoServe?
<Chip Is the AofT the IBM Fellows thinktank?
<mfc IBM AoT .. the top 300 tech peole in IBM, asks as consultants to rest of IBM, cross divisional, runs studies and assessments
<mfc of new technologies, etc.
<mfc AoT: it includes all 50 IBM Fellows.
<jjurban mfc: can we lobby AoT?
<Death_Syn must dash
<Death_Syn later guys
<mfc GoServe: I stull update it occasionally, but it's very stable, and nothing significant on wishlist
<mfc (It runs the site I just mentioned, 50,000 hits a week, on a 486 33MHz PS/2 with 100MB hard disk :-)
<rexxer I read on the GoServe list that you have a Win port. How about a U*X one?
<Ed or java?
<MADvirc WSOD is part of the future. Remote OS loading. Centralized desktop administration with thin clients. No micro$oft. Maybe not for the home user but for large and small businesses it is the most efficient model out there. I wish IBM would see that for the small business and not just the mega-corporations.
<mfc and only goes down if there's a power cut. No memory leaks in OS/2 :-))
<Ed or netrexx?
<rexxer yes a Java Goserve would be cool
<mfc lobby AoT .. not much point.
<Swordedge Katie of IB *wants* some good java apps to sell.... everybody and their uncle sells java tools
<Chip \whois Swordedge
<Ed an OS designed to use a CODA type FS could be interesting...
<mfc Unix GoServe would be easy. (Esp. if like the Win version it had no GUI). I just don't have any Unix system...
<freiheit I tried running GoServe (with SRE-http) to do a purely internal server (for previewing my own pages before uploading them to my ISP) and _could_not_ make it ignore requests from outside systems. Any suggestions?
<Ed it might even be useable as WSOD type system as CODA keeps a local 'cache' on disk.
<mfc .. but IBM is drifting towards open source, so maybe one day I'll just stick the source on my website :-)
*  freiheit always reserves the right to ask the low-tech questions. :)
<Swanee Chip: translate('\whois','/','\')
<jjurban mfc: 'lobby - not much point' You mean they don't listen to you either?
<Swanee oops? backwards haha
<rexxer mfc that would be great. I think people can make great things with GoServe
<mfc GoServe: yes, run it on loopback ( .. that wouldn't be visible from outside.
<freiheit That's what I couldn't get it to do. :(
<Chip (AIX is killing my finger memory)
<freiheit I'll have to talk to the SRE-http developer I suppose, since that's modifying the GoServe functionality.
<mfc lobby: no, I mean it's not its function to do development or release products
<mfc [it's outside the management structure, in fact -- self-electing]
<jjurban mfc: I meant lobby for policy - like please don't abandon OS/2.
<Swanee mfc: Sort of like our congress then :)
<GLEB MADvirc> [WSOD is part] -- well, but if not to absolutize it. Very pitty that IBM chosed java only, os/2 (and rexx :-) is very good _universal_ system. For science applications, for ex. It'n not possible in remote model
<mfc well, not like yr President, anyway :-)
<rexxer freiheit isn't SRE written in Rexx, perhaps you can modify it. Shouldn't be difficult.
*  freiheit is not REXX-literate. :)
<Swanee mfc: :)
<jjurban mfc: our President *loves* to get lobbied.
<mfc lobby for policy: again, it's AoT .. not AoPolitics. We stick to technical questions :-)
<Chip freiheit: we (RexxLA) can fix that, too!
<Swanee mfc: Sounds like quite a group. All 50 fellows you say? Do you get to come together every so often for face to face meetings?
<Swanee mfc: BTW: Congrats on your "Fellow"ship
<mfc As a group meets once a year for annual meeting (3 days). Direction is set by Technology Council (15 + officers) which is elected
<mfc also, 5 each year for 3 years. (I have 1.5 years to go of current term)
<mfc Swanee: thnx
<Swanee Well...
<Swanee I suppose... we've kept our speakers for a couple of hours so it's about time to call an end to the speakup. You are all welcome to stick around and chat but we need to give the speakers an opportunity to make their exit or we could keep them here indefinately.
<Swanee Of course, you're more than welcome to stay and chat. I'm sure we can keep you busy. ;-)
<Dirk_Terr Yeah, the wife has called me twice already. :-)
<CWBrenn Thanks for the talk, guys!
<Swanee We'd like to thank Dirk, Chip and Mike today for their participation and hope most of your questions were answered.
<Swanee Dirk and Chip, thanks for being with us again. We always welcome your help and knowledge of the language and hope you can be with us again in the near future.
<jjurban Bye Mike, cheerio!
<Swanee A special thank you goes out to Mike Cowlishaw for taking the time to get set up with irc just to be here with us. Thank you Mike. We love your work.
<mfc I've enjoyed it .. many thanks for the invitation!
<Projects We'd also like to see if there's any interest in Saturday speakups on a once-per-month basis
<Dirk_Terr Yes Mike, thanks for joining us.
<freiheit As always, be sure to check the VOICE Events Calendar for our upcoming SpeakUp Sessions. We're scheduled through March right now.
<MADvirc Is there interest in future speakup events on Saturday at this time.
<mfc Now I know where this is, I'll drop in more often...
<jjurban Sat speakups - I vote yes.
<Ed saturday at 1pm est is a GOOD time for these meetings
<Swanee Thanks a million Mike. I really enjoyed the time.
<Xavi Sat speakups - me too!
<Ed and warpcast is a good place to put reminders too.
<JimLarson MADvirc: as the weather gets nicer, prolly not.
<CWBrenn I like the Sat speakups.
<mfc OK, G'nite, all..
<Swordedge Keep the variety. Sat is sometimes hard to do because of other activities.
<rexxer Sat speakups at 18:00 GMT are great so we can join from both sides of the Atlantic
<Swanee Good night Mike, Have a great day!
<_biz_ g'nite?
<_biz_ its' 2 p.m.
<Chip Mike's in England...
<_biz_ ah
<freiheit :)
<_biz_ heh
<_biz_ that would explain it then
<Projects Swordedge: these will be in addition to the regular speakups
<Swanee Dirk! I didn't get to say goodbye!
<SunnyBear _biz_: only where you are....
<Xavi In Europe is almost 09:00pm
<Chip He skipped dinner to join us.
<SunnyBear _biz_: this be international...
<Swanee Chip: You won't leave without a parting shot will you?
<SunnyBear _biz_: impressed? :)
<rexxer Xavi Are you in Spain or in the US right now
<Swanee :)
<jjurban How many voice members are there now?
<Swanee Chip: Is there any progress on the Rexx repository?
<Xavi Currently I am in North Carolina, but my internal clock is still in Spain... :)
<Projects jjurban: 126
*  rexxer is going to dinner now
<CWBrenn later, everyone...
<Chip If I can plug the Rexx Symposium one last time: it's May 3-5 in Jacksonville, Fl.
<Swanee rexxer: Great to see you again!
<Erdrick suppose I should say something.... bye all.
<Chip see for details.
<SunnyBear _biz_: Daytona Beach Fl... you're hub... :)
<rexxer Swanee me too!
<Swanee rexxer: Maybe warpStock again?
<_biz_ ahh
<rexxer Xavi see(read) you on the teamspain list :)
<_biz_ hehe
<_biz_ impressed
<_biz_ ?
<_biz_ that's it's international?
<_biz_ not really :)
<_biz_ heheh
<rexxer Swanee: I cant promise but I'll try :)
<_biz_ it's irc
<_biz_ of course it is :)
<Swanee For the rest of you... rexxer was the best dressed man at WarpStock98
<rexxer Swanee this time I'd buy you the drinks ;)
<Chip Rexx repository: short answer - not much, we're hardware resource constrained
<rexxer he he
<Xavi 'casue he not American... :)
<SunnyBear Swanee: what'd he win for that?
<Swanee hehe, oh I'd maybe have one... or two... or more! :-)
<Ed If anyone is interested in a port of pipes (a la CMS) for netrexx see:
<Swanee Just our respect but what can be better than that?
<Chip If we can find a spot to host it, and a willing Repositorian, we can move ahead.