General VOICE Meeting form 04/16/2001

<Walter Am I late?
<Sector Nope
<madodel0 projects: It's my duty to protect them from themselves
<Projects Walter: right on time
<Rat-Salad hi Walter
<Hoss Right on target Walter.
<Projects hehehe
<Walter Hi everyone!
<Sector Hello Hoss
<Hoss I'd like to thank everyone for dropping by tonight.
<XRange hi Hoss , Walter
<Walter Hi Hoss
<Hoss for those that don't know me I am Abel McClendon, the secretary for VOICE.
<Sector And System Administrator for the VOICE server
<Walter Who's XRange?
<Sector We haven't figured that out yet... ;>
<Projects hehehe
<Hoss Projects here is th money man, th treasurer for VOICE.
<Hoss madodel, I think is here??
<Hoss he's the editor amongst other things...
<Projects no, but madodel0 is
<XRange hi lmaxson
<Hoss ;-) projects.
<Sector Hello lmaxson
<lmaxson Hi, all.
<Walter Hi lmaxson
<Hoss mandie is lurking she is our liason officer... the brains behind all this braun. ;)
<XRange hi trouvere
<Sector Hello trouvere
<Walter I used to be WalterOS2; now that's my email name.
<cass Hi Imaxson, trouvere...
<trouvere hi, all
<mandie g'evening :)
<Hoss oh the brains! hiya mandie ;-)
<XRange hi mandie
<mandie got a couple of things to take care of and brb
<mandie hiya Hoss and XRange :)
<Walter hi mandie!
<mandie Walter!! Welcome :)
<Sector It's mandie­­­­­­
*  Hoss says hello to evreyone...
<Hoss ok.. there's a few things on the agenda... and a few things not.. I hope madodel brought a copy...
<MADodel who me¨
*  Hoss says yes.
<Sector Hello WarpedOS2
<MADodel I thought we were going to discuss the server?
<XRange hi WarpedOS2
<Hoss basically yes we are...
<Hoss LEt's get some of th other business out of the way... Projects : do we have a treasurer's report?
<MADodel I'd also like to discuss forming SIGS if we have time. Specifically a networking SIG to help people with networking problems. Also we need to discuss kickstarting Warp Doctor
<mandie whew! my granddaughter is wearing me out :)
<Projects 4255.08 CDN
<Hoss membership numbers?
<Projects patience...
<Projects 242
<Hoss slow but steady growth. that's good.
<mandie $2723.5998207770594 USD
<Projects Mark: agreed on those SIGs, but a bit late for the networking one :-)
<Projects mandie: try and be a bit more accurate next time... :-)
<mandie sorry..sometimes I just can't make the grade :)
<Projects hehehe
<Hoss While we are on the subject of money... mandie you want to tye alittle bit about the WARPSTOCK offer... and related topics...
<Hoss tye=type.
<mandie I'd love to but....
<Projects there's always a but...
<mandie Maybe Mark has paid more attention than I have of's been very busy with company around here
<mandie Walter: I will get back to your email eventually also :)
<Walter OK--I thought that email addr was dead.
<mandie Hoss: are you referring to "our" deal with Warpstock?
<Hoss yes, mandie. the "negotiations" and result.
<mandie ahhhhhh :)
<mandie ok, I can do that
<Projects but?
<mandie Warpstock Inc., has requested that VOICE handle their registration transactions
<mandie no but about it! :)
<Projects :)
*  Hoss notes the spelling on the word "but".
<mandie they are going to provide funds for the secure certificate for both VOICE and Warpstock, Inc.
<mandie Hoss has been working very intensly on our server and it now provides secure transactions :)
<mandie thx Hoss!!
<WarpedOS2 Hi all...
<WarpedOS2 hi sector., Xrange
<mandie also......
<mandie Warpstock will be moving from the server at BMT and VOICE will not be providing them a new home :)
<WarpedOS2 What will you use the secure transactions for...
<mandie we're in the process of working out all of the details but it will happen in the very near future
<mandie any questions??....answers.......???
<mandie comments....suggestions....
<Sector Ummm, VOICE will not be¨
<mandie VOICE will be!
<Projects yeah, what he said
<Hoss WarpedOS2 :: The first transactions hosted/handled by VOICE1 be warpstock registrations.
<WarpedOS2 Oh ok...what about memberships :-)
<Hoss replete withe credit card transactions.
<Hoss WarpedOS2 :: That will be added very soon afterwards.
<WarpedOS2 Hoss...good, I will be waiting for that...
<mandie Sector: you're correct...
<cass Is there not an opportunity for more Voice memberships out of this work for Warpstock?
<mandie VOICE will not be hosting will also be hosted by Internet WalkAbout
<Walter is a bad email address. I'm still getting a subscription through there, but it's causing me nothing but trouble. My advice=delete it.
<mandie VOICE will provide server space
<WarpedOS2 Hi Walter
<Hoss Walter :: we can handle that...
<mandie cass: I personally don't see it generating additional memberships...
<mandie but...
<mandie VOICE has always provided support for Warpstock and we've helped whenever possible
<cass just one of, more exposure thoughts.
<mandie they are in need and requested our assistance
<WarpedOS2 the Voice server for transactions in a secure place...?
<mandie cass: there's a thought!...
<Hoss VOICE1 is in a professionally maintained ISP environment.
<WarpedOS2 good...thanks...Hoss
<Hoss Security is on par with telecom data centers.
<WarpedOS2 HOss: ok...good to know!!
<Walter A professional ISP that's comfortable with OS/2! Now's there's a conundrum!
<MADodel Actually paying for the ISP service is one of things we have to address
<Hoss Walter :: there are ore of those in the world than you'd expect.
<Walter Now's = Now.
<Hoss ore=more.
<DSOM_eCS Greetings.
<XRange hi DSOM_eCS
<Hoss good topic madodel.
<mandie hi DSOM
<WarpedOS2 hi Dsom
<Walter I guess they're just not here in Canada. :-)
<mandie Hoss: has Wilson thrown around any $'s at all?
<mandie I should say #'s
<Hoss we have only discussed "what we paid previously" and "what we can afford"
<Hoss along with those items we also talkeed about VOICE doing what is best for VOICE and do as much as we can for him.
<mandie is he providing backups or are we b/u our own?
<Hoss We are working on backups at his location...
<Hoss the biggest rpoblem right now is JFS.
<Hoss his backup solutn won't handle it.
<WarpedOS2 What kinda traffice Voice server looking at for transactions and hd space....etc...?
<WarpedOS2 Whatsup with JFS??
<Hoss VOICE1 doesn't have enough hpfs room to "completely backup" the entire machine.
<MADodel I believe the server version of BackAgain will handle JFS
<Sector So will the client version
<mandie do we have a license to BA?
<Sector But it's still limited to the HPFS 2gig filesize limit, though this is apparantly being addressed.
<Hoss right now VOICE1 is holding about 10gb of data.
<MADodel We can get a 60gig IDE drive for about $250 or so. That should provide a few generations
<Sector Hi tealia
<tealia hi
<XRange backup to jfs with OS/2 Wrap Server Backup/Restore
<Sector Huh, I just ordered two for $157 each...
<Rat-Salad a ide 60gb for $250 ... can do better than that
<mandie Sector: 60G each?
<MADodel Wow, $157, where?
<Sector Uh Western Digital
<MADodel I did say or so
<Sector $2 shippping each
<XRange rpm speed Sector
<Sector 5200
<Hoss Along with this keep in mind... _ANY_ HW changes / upgrades are going to be done ny our Provider. ( another reason to come up with something we can afford to pay ).
<MADodel I think we should get at least one big IDE drive for some redundancy
<Hoss ny=by.
<Hoss I agree Madodel.
<Projects can't backup offsite?
<Hoss yes we can...
<MADodel What kind of IDE controller does VOICE1 have? Is it just ATA/33?
<Projects that way we wouldn't have to trouble walkabout with it
<Hoss The IDE controller is on the MotherBoard.
<MADodel Projects: but what about restoring? An onsite backup is really important. We should do both
<WarpedOS2 hi tealia
<Projects restoring would just be a matter of swapping drives
<tealia hi
<Projects oh, the time issue...
<lmaxson We're putting up a server with IDE drives?
<mandie Hoss: what mb do we have?
<mandie it's probably got ata/66
<Projects lmaxson: no, a backup IDE drive
<MADodel Swapping a drive that is in another part of the country is not really a quick method
<MADodel Unless we get a teleporter
<Projects yeah, that's what I said :)
<Hoss S1598 TYAN Trinity ATX
<MADodel mandie: it's not a major deal, but the faster the better.
<mandie correct
<Hoss 2 IDE Connectors PIO mode 3/4 UltraDMA 33/66 supported
<Hoss 40pin IDE
<MADodel I thought ATA/66 required an 80pin cable?
<Hoss Doesn't say ATA/66
<Walter You can use a 40-pin cable if you step the drive down ATA/33 :-(
<Hoss That's right off the manual...
<mandie and I thought it was right off the top of your head!...what a disappointment! :)
<Hoss no way I can keep everything there... mandie ;-)
<Hoss it sort of slides off!!
<Rat-Salad so get a card... DaniS506 will handle it
<mandie LOL
<Walter The drive comes a utility to allow you to select ATA/33, ATA/66, or plain.
<MADodel At least with an IDE drive we can use anything we like to do the backups - zip, XCOPY, BA2000 or PSNS
<mandie need the special cable for ATA/66
<mandie true
<Hoss anyway for backup/redundancy UltraDMA33 is ore than enough...
<Hoss ore=more.
<Walter I would agree.
<MADodel Would 60Gig be enough?
<Hoss Yes 60 gb would do nicely.
<WarpedOS2 Well, a UltraDMA33 Running a 7200RPM drive is lots of power and speed...
<WarpedOS2 It is a web machine not a server!!
<Rat-Salad I just found a 80gig Maxtor for $218
<mandie brb
<Hoss I am concerned about the pounding that we put on our current "WorkDrive."
<MADodel Would we use JFS or HPFS? I've had no problem with JFS, but others have
<Walter Given that warp-cast news has only been on the server for a short time, I think you should get as big a one as possible.
<MADodel Do we also need additional SCSI drive?
<Hoss IMHO, HPFS for backups. JFS for serving.
<Hoss an additional 18gb SCI drive would definitely help things out.
<MADodel But on a reboot, a 60gig HPFS will take an eternity to CHKDSK if it gets dirty
<Hoss THat can be divided up...
<Walter SCSI is more expensive, but does give you better throughput with less processor load. You have to weigh the pros and cons.
<MADodel The server already has SCSI drives
<Hoss For that machine... SCSI for serving.
<XRange bbiab
<Hoss The latest JFS patch... has VOICE1 humming.. nicely.. even on simoultaneuos reads/writes.
<Hoss We ran into soe serious problems early on... particularly with mail.
<Hoss soe=some.
<Hoss We also had some EMX issues that caused wuite a bit of downtime.
<Hoss Those are cured.
<MADodel 18gig SCSI 68pin drive is probably going to cost about $200 or so
<Hoss We still run into a situation every now and then when the PID cont tries to roll over....
<MADodel And 68 pins are getting tough to find
<Hoss cont=count.
<MADodel Will the existing SCSI cable able to take another drive?
<DSOM_eCS Check those cable lengths.
<Hoss Yes. the existing cabling will take several drives.
<MADodel Good.
<MADodel I think we should purchase a 60Gig IDE drive and a 18Gig SCSI drive.
<Sector 18.2gig IBM 80pin (includes 80-68pin adaptor) $139
<MADodel And where is that?
<Sector Same place I got my Quantum Atlas 10K II's from.
<Walter And what are we going to use the SCSI drive for? I forget.
<Hoss Active serving.
<Sector IDE would be for backup purposes, SCSI for online storage of whatever
<Hoss Right now _everything_ is dpenedent on the IBM18gb SCIS we have..
<MADodel We have to spread some of the server load around.
<Walter Makes sense to me. :-)
<lmaxson How many 18GB SCSI drives will physically fit in the server without overheating?
<Hoss we can fit _two_ more drives without having to add a cage.
<mandie what about cooling?
<Hoss we can add the front fans from if necessary.
<MADodel Are there enough fans in the current box to add a couple new drives?
<MADodel We should add at least one set of bay fans for the 7200RPM SCSI drive
<Hoss I think it would be a good idea to add 2 bay fans and the server would remain cool.
<Hoss we have enough room for 2 drives IIRC.
<lmaxson In one of my IBM 315 servers I installed 5 4.3GB drives. Had I gone to a larger capacity drive I would have had to cut the number in half due to the cooling requirements.
<MADodel lmaxson: with good fans, heat should not be a problem
<lmaxson Mark, it's circulation, actually forcing air over the surfaces.
<Hoss we doo have room for one drive below the flopies and 3 up top... if we pack them in. I don't think that is wise.
<MADodel lmaxson: I'm aware. I have two cheetahs. With good fans, there is no problem
<lmaxson Mark, do you have them stacked on top of each other?
<Hoss We could always use the chimney effect.... and put a stack on it...
<Hoss ;-)
<Sector I've got a couple of 10,000rpm drives here without any heat problems. (ok there are 6 case fans and a couple of GlobalWin I-Storm II's in front of the hardrives).
<MADodel lmaxson: no. I wouldn't put two 10,000RPM drives directly on top of one-another. There is space between them and a bay cooler on each
<lmaxson All I'm going by is IBM's recommendations for the larger capacity drives.
<Hoss The 2 IBM's we have are doing _really_ well. 1 18gb and one 9GB.
<MADodel It's not the capacity, so much as the spin. A 5400RPM drive doesn't need much cooling. A 10K RPM needs a lot of cooling
<lmaxson The point is that there is a difference between the available bays in the machine and the usable ones for HDs.
<lmaxson At least they are IBM drives.
<MADodel That is true. But I trust Hoss to know where he can put a 7200RPM drive and a 5400RPM drive
<Hoss I am looking a a picture of the Mid-Tower case.
<Hoss We have room for _2_ more drives.
<lmaxson I willing to consider it a non-issue.
<MADodel The SCSI should go where a bay fan can cool it.
<MADodel The 5400 can be tucked in where it can fit
<Hoss Not a problem.
<Hoss We can move the current 18gb up and pu the IDE below the 9gb
<MADodel We don't want thermal problems for sure
<Hoss With that and 2 bay fans It'll be just fine.
<MADodel Is the Power Supply up to all that added watts?
<mandie we might want to get an opinion from Wilson also
<lmaxson bbiab. dinner time.
<Hoss yes, he can see__ the temp/
<mandie correct
<mandie and he knows what environment is like for the servers
<MADodel Is voice1 in a cooled room?
<Hoss Yes.
<Hoss AS it was before. Air temp at RBDC was 75-80 degF.
<Hoss Wilson assured me his room was less.
<Hoss I think we beat that topic up pretty nicely....
<Walter I take it Wilson is an ISP rep?
<mandie ok, let's determine needs and $ and pass it by the members for approval
<Hoss Wilson is the ISP.
<mandie do we know how much space will be needed by Warpstock?
<Hoss warpstock is already on the server.
<MADodel I would think with 250Watt ps that this additon will pretty much max out voice1. Will this give us a year or so before we have to consider any new additions?
<mandie ah...mirror..forgot :)
<Hoss they come in @ 1gb
<Hoss if you count the zipped backup....
<Hoss This will last us.
<MADodel That's good to hear
<DSOM_eCS The requested URL /warpstock was not found on this server.
<Hoss add the /
<Walter Actually, I'm surprised you can hang as much as you are on a ps that size.
<Hoss I know the guy that put that machine together... it's a piece of prize winning HW.
<Walter I'll take your word for it!
<Hoss As a matter of fact.. many of us knew him.
<MADodel :-(
<Sector Uh huh
<Hoss :(
<Hoss now. mandie.. I agree with you.
<Hoss 2 bay fans, 1 60GB IDE HDD and 1 18GB SCSI HDD.
<Hoss ok, let's determine needs and $ and pass it by the members for approval
<Hoss anybody know the bay fan cost?
<Sector That would depend on the type
<Hoss Only the best ;-) !!
<mandie wonder if we can have the items purchased by Wilson..he may be able to buy discounted hdwe
<Hoss Could be...
<mandie worth checking on
<Hoss true enough...
<Sector GlobalWin I-Storm II's are nice but run around $30 or so. Plus they pull from the bottom so can't put two right together (not that you'de want to anyway.
<Hoss ok we an still say... we need to buy the 2 bay fans and the IDE and SCSI drives price not to exceed $X ????
<Hoss an=can.
<Projects not to exceed $1.50
<Projects that's about 2k in cdn :-)
<Sector Shouldn't be more then $400 including shipping
<Hoss It's a wise investment IMHO.
<MADodel I think we have to do something if we are going to continue to add services
<Sector Agreed, worthwhile
<MADodel We are making voice1 an invaluable asset to the community. We can't just let it wear out
<Hoss ok who has the wording for a vote of member's present? or do we want to put that on th survey page?
<trouvere call for a motion?
<Hoss That works trouvere : All those member's present who agree to purchase the aforementioned HW not to exceed $400 +5% say AYE.
<Hoss AYE
<Projects AYE
<trouvere aye
<Walter AYE
<MADodel AYE
<cass Aye
<XRange AYE
<Sector Affirmative
<Projects scratch Sectors
<Projects :)
<Sector Thanks, I had an itch
<MADodel Do we allow Affirmative here?
<Projects heh
<Projects make him say the right word!
<Hoss Ok it passes with * AYE votes.
<Hoss 8
<Projects 7
<Sector Projects, you withdrawing your vote¨ ;>
<Projects Sector: no, yours didn't count. Say the right word! :)
<Sector the right word­
<trouvere (ask for opposed to be 'legal')
*  Projects smacks Sector
<Walter I have a question about my 'AYE'
<MADodel Now Peter, I'm trying to get my kids to stop hitting one-another. Do I have to send you to your room also?
<Hoss Those opposed to the purchase say NAY.
<Hoss Yes Walter?
<Projects I didn't hit him, I smacked him :)
<Walter My membership lapsed; so I paid via BMT on Saturday, but I haven't received the official notification from you guys yet. Am I a member or no?
<MADodel Projects: that sounds like something my kids would say
<Projects Walter: I'll d/l the transactions tomorrow, and go through them then
<Projects MADodel: and mine... where do you think I get my material? :-)
<MADodel Walter: you are a member.
<cass Oh no, let's not go there...I've paid (with proof) but ...Notification???
<Walter OK, Mark. Thanks.
<Hoss yep. I agree madodel.
<Projects cass: you got your BMT notification?
<Sector Good enough for me
<cass All mail from BMT is good
<Hoss ok. now. the next thing is... what can we agree upon to pay_ our provider?
<Projects if you can get any that is :p
<Hoss At our old colocoation site we had agreed to pay $25 a month. We never_ had to pay it.
<Projects we had to pay it once
<Hoss that was from August of 2000 until last month.
<Hoss Projects that's why u r the treasurer :)
<Projects oh, wait. We had to pay BMT once for warpdoctor... different thing altogether
<Hoss ahh yes different...
<Projects my mistake
<Hoss I think for now.. we should at least_ pay that much. with a modest "setup fee"....
<Hoss We are going to be asking the ISP to do a number of thing's for us....
<Hoss 1 install that HW we just agreed to buy.
<Hoss 2. a couple more DNS entries.
<Hoss 3. Install some software.
<Hoss 4. another IP address or two.
<DSOM_eCS Network monitoring?
<Hoss 5. "onsite eyes" for server shutdown's and reboots to fully automate the process.
<Hoss DSOM--good phrasing.
<XRange Hoss: better may sure he loaded ide drivers after scsi are he have problem. :)
<Hoss VOICE1 is already setup that way.
<MADodel We using the DANIS driver on voice1?
<Hoss Yes.
<MADodel Good.
<Walter How come you can such a good deal with Wilson?!
<trouvere first 4 points should be covered by setup fee
<Walter can such = can get a such
<Walter a such = such a
<Hoss Wilson and I had discussed the possibilites last year during the time VOICE made the decision to purchase a server.
<Hoss Dan myself an wilson ecxchanged a few emails... aong those lines.
<Hoss Wilson is a VOICE member and had some thing;s to offer.
<Walter OK, thanks.
<cass Okay. The fee seems reasonable, for services we require...why not?
<Hoss He is/was in need of some various thing's VOICE could provide.. and he wanted to "become a more active" member.
<Hoss "Mutually Beneficial" Arrangement I think was what we discussed.
<XRange sound like good enough reason
<Hoss It pertained to the WaprDoctor project and the database project.
<Hoss cass : glad to hear you say that.
<MADodel We don't want to wear out our welcome. BMT gave us a free ride for a couple years, but toward the end I felt they looked on us as a burden.
<Projects no arguement there
<mandie agreed
<Walter Yeah..definitely better to leave on good terms.
<Hoss I think it's better to stay on good terms.
*  Projects can't get a response out of them at all, but everything I'm trying to complain about is mysteriously fixed...
<mandie neighbor is visiting...please post log...
<mandie bbl
<Hoss stay on good terms with _everyone_ in our community.
<Hoss anyhoo that said..
<MADodel BTW, does anyone have a log of the last meeting?
<Hoss anybody have a motion ?
<Sector But of course
<trouvere any comment about how much setup fee?
<Hoss well I think a gratuity matching a month's servce wuld be accpetable.. and not too pricey for the budget.
<cass Sounds good: I'd have expected more of a setup..
<MADodel I really think at minimum $50.
<Projects most of the setup work was already done by late-night Hoss :)
<Hoss if we had to shop on the open market I promise you we would pay $200+ a month. and a fee for every service rendered.
<WarpedOS2 YIKES!!!
<MADodel For the setup that is
<Sector Which is not an option (the $200/month)
<MADodel We have a T1 access do we not?
<Hoss THat is correct Sector, that is _not_ an option today.
<MADodel My ISP charges $250/month for fractional T1
<Hoss YEs 10MBS FULL_DUPLEX to the router.
<Hoss More than we will need.
<trouvere 50 seems reasonable
<Hoss $25 a month and a $50 setup fee....
<Walter I hope we don't wear out our welcome with Wilson like we did with BMT.
<Sector Well, we didn't pay anthing to BMT...
<Walter The amount Hoss suggested is OK by me.
<cass And me.
<Projects ditto
<Hoss I think we sould all understand that when we can afford more we should pay more.
<lmaxson Me too.
<Hoss we are growing.
<MADodel I motion that we agree to pay Walkabout a $50 setup fee and $25/month for ISP services
<Hoss motion on the floor. ^^^^
<lmaxson Second.
<Hoss Those in favor signify by saying AYE.
<Walter AYE
<cass aye
<Hoss AYE
<MADodel AYE
<lmaxson AYE.
<trouvere aye
<Projects AYE
*  Projects get's the bat ready for Sector
<Hoss that's 7 AYES motion carries.
<Hoss those opposed say NAY.
<mandie AYE
<Hoss that's 8.
*  Sector hides behind VoiceBot
<Sector Positive
<Hoss there's 8.5
<Projects *smack*
<Projects hehehe
<Hoss ok. that's a done deal.
<Walter Can I ask a question?
*  _XRange hides just got hit awhile ago
<MADodel Is there anything else we need to discuss in regard to the server?
<Projects you just did
<trouvere what is involved in hosting irc? many of the #webbnet addresses don't work for me.
<Sector They dont¨
<Hoss Yes. I will be ready to register the certificate on VOICE1 this week.
<Hoss WarpCarge will be loaded this week as well.
<Projects Walter: your question?
<Hoss Warpcharge.
<Hoss Walter : ??
<Sector trouvere, what happens when you try and connect to WEBBnet¨
<Walter At the beginning we said the membership was 200+ . We just accept a motion with 8 votes. What are VOICE's rules regarding a quorum? Or are there any?
<Projects trouvere: at the risk of swelling Sector's head, I've found to be pretty reliable
<Walter accept = accepted
<MADodel trouvere: Several of us run webbnet IRC servers
<Hoss valid votes are taken of members present at meetings.
<Sector Hi daveW
<daveW hello Sector
<Hoss PLease take th OT webbnet stuff to another channel.
<trouvere email me some new addresses, mark, when you have time. mine came from the webbnet website, and seem not valis any more.
<Hoss Walter : we do our best to stay within the rules outlined in our bylaws.
<trouvere valis=valid
<Hoss WE run as loose a ship as we can to keep everyone "ok" with stuff. If we make mistakes we do our best to correct them as fast as we can.
<trouvere sorry, i thought perhaps the server would handle that
<Walter OK, Hoss. I'm just trying to learn...not meaning to be critical. :-)
<Hoss Your questions are appreciated Walter. :)
<XRange g'night everyone
<Sector Goodnight XRange
<Projects we about done?
<Hoss We will have a short questionaire for member's up sometime next week I hope...
<Hoss Almost projects...
<Hoss We have several vacancies to fill. a short bio and the position you'd like to take can be sent to
<Hoss Secretary and President are open
*  Projects sizes up Walter for the presidency
<Hoss ok. madodel? projects? what did I miss on the agenda?
<Hoss mandie?
<Hoss Anyone have ?'s concerns or commentary?
<Hoss ideas?
<MADodel It's late so I will hold off on my topics til next meeting
<Hoss ok madodel.
<MADodel For the next agenda, I would like to discuss Warp Doctor
<MADodel And creating a regular Networking meeting SIG
<Hoss I agree.
<Walter I would like that, yes.
<Hoss we can continue to discuss... but the official stuff is over.
<lmaxson Mark, why do you need a networking SIG if SCOUG already offers one?
<MADodel They do?
<lmaxson Yep.
<Hoss Networking SIG on IRc?
<lmaxson Yes.
<Sector Covered by the Help desk
<MADodel We need to offer a regularly schduled IRC meeting where people can come to get help with networking problems.
<trouvere g'night all
<MADodel Does that mean that VOICE can't offer a help session?
<cass Thanks all, good night.
<lmaxson No, it doesn't mean that.
<MADodel Not everyone can make that meeting. The time is kind of late.
<lmaxson It means that VOICE can take advantage of an available OS/2 resource.
<MADodel I think we can offer an alternative. There is a big need for this. And I think it will encourage people to get on IRC
<MADodel We should advertise the SCOUG help desk as well
<Sector Nah, it's not late... It all depends on your frame of reference, VOICE meetings could be considerd kinda early for some
<lmaxson If you are bothered about the time, you can always use either a mailing list or the IBMFORUM on CompuServe.
*  Projects ^5's Sector
<Walter The interactivity (I think I coined a word) has some distinct advantages over the std mail/discussion list.
<MADodel lmaxson: I can use a mail list or a news group as well. IRC offers something different. realtime help
<lmaxson It's only real if someone is there.
<Sector Well, at least Projects didn't smack me this time
<Projects hehehe
<Walter You can keep refining your question until you get the information you need, for one thing.
<MADodel lmaxson: hence the the schedule part
<Projects and "try this, and tell me what it does" is much quicker in IRC sessions :)
<lmaxson Mark, I can give a more thought out response to an inquiry on a mailing list or an CServe forum than in a chat session.
<MADodel Sometimes getting the right information from someone with a problem is like pulling teeth. We went through this recently with helping someone on the eCS list, and it was pretty successful
<MADodel lmaxson: it's not the response, it's the trouble shooting. And you can still do so on those fora if you like.
<DSOM_eCS MADodel - Yes, several of us were there for that eCS chat.
<lmaxson Well, if you can get Steve Levine, our Mr. KIA, to participate, that takes care of the trouble shooting.
<MADodel That would be great if SteveL has time. The more the merrier. Maybe schedule it on a Saturday
<MADodel We just need to expand the use of the facility we have here
<lmaxson Fine by me.
<MADodel I think there is more then enough room for a couple of help sessions. And this would be centered on networking
<lmaxson It's just that I had duplicating volunteer effort.
<lmaxson had = hate
<lmaxson However, let's get on to WD.
<MADodel lmaxson: you can't expect everyone to show up at 10PM on Wednesday. It would be great if they could.
<lmaxson Mark, you have a point.
<lmaxson Maybe we need an east coast/west coast type of thingee.
<Hoss IRC has a hint of being realtime... especially when there are people in a channel...
<Hoss #scoug is _rarely_ populated.
<Hoss Resources are varied...
<Hoss he scoug chat has helped me a few times.. even if it is a 10pm.
<Hoss he=the.
<MADodel Be nice if we had something a kin to P2P so people could post relevant files for people to look at while they were being discussed.
<Hoss WD has the potnetial to take that to a new level.
<Hoss P2P can be done via a browser with properly written code.
<Hoss "integrated" into an irce sessoin.
<WarpedOS2 night folks...
<Projects DTOC is another option
<lmaxson Seems to me that DCC within a chat session will work.
<MADodel Projects: Do you want people you don't know in your machine?
<Projects Mark: I've done it before with a botched linux install
<MADodel Actually that or maybe just another channel just for posting files to browse might work
<lmaxson I'm down to fifteen minutes left.
<MADodel Anything to say on WD Lynn?
<lmaxson Only that I'm a volunteer.
<lmaxson And a database expert.
<Hoss I have seen access time reduced to 1 second in a database with 107,000 + records.
<Hoss text_ records.
<lmaxson You haven't been on a mainframe doing 14,000 transactions per second then.
<Hoss I don't think WD will ever see that ;-)
<lmaxson With databases running into hundreds of millions.
<Hoss we may want to prepare fot a peek.. of sorts... but not 14,000 transactions per second.
<lmaxson With any kind of luck we will grow WD into a mainframe for reliability and performance.
<lmaxson At least an AS/400.
<Walter What database software is in WD now?
<Hoss DB2 has been tossed around.
<lmaxson That means none.
<Walter OK, but what is it actually _using_ right now?
<Swanee Hi gang, sorry I'm late but the IRS wants me done... :-)
<lmaxson DB2 UDB 7.x.
<Sector Well hello there Swanee
<lmaxson Purchase it.
<Swanee Hi Sector
<Swanee I'm still looking for one more form and I think I have my taxes done.
<Projects hey Wayne
<Hoss Walter : lmaxson is correct. right now WD is not DB based.
<Swanee Hi Projects! Long time - no see.
<Walter OK, thanks.
<Walter Hi Wayne!
<Swanee Hi Walter!
<Hoss WD is still in the design and concept phase...
*  Swanee has to search a file cabinet...
<MADodel We had asked IBM for a donated copy of DB2 UDB, but they never agreed. We can't afford the license we need.
<Hoss hiya Swanee.
<lmaxson The issue lies in how to properly store text data in a database that maximises the reuse of information.
<Swanee Hi Hoss!
<Swanee haha, I just went to hunt something down and IRC barked at me to come back. :-)
<lmaxson Mark, how much money are we talking about?
<Hoss well we appreciate you joining us.
<Hoss WorkGrup license for db2 UDB 7.0 ?
<lmaxson Yep.
<Swanee Hoss: I am still getting my taxes done. I had to be booted to "another" partition to finish up tonight
*  Swanee has to find something... brb
<Walter Well,'s time to take myself upstairs and tuck myself into bed. Gotta get up early tomorrow.
<Sector Goodnight Walter
<MADodel Swanee: at least you get an extra hour
<Hoss Ok walter : stop by this channel _anytime_.
<Hoss thanks fo coming.
<Walter Thanks!
<Hoss lmaxson last I checked $450 plus.
<MADodel lmaxson: I don't remember. We discussed the license ad nauseum at one point. We can't legally do what we need with the personal version, we need the more expensive one. At least that is what was decided back then.
<lmaxson I just checked with indelible blue and it's under $1000.
<lmaxson I have this strange feeling that as part of the IBM developers whizbang that we can buy it at a deeper discount.
<lmaxson I will check on that.
<MADodel IBM has cutoff access to the software mall for non-corporate enterprise members.
<MADodel I can't even get in to look anymore
<lmaxson I come in through the developer's door.
<MADodel And I have an enterprise subscription to Developer
<lmaxson Then look there instead of the software mall.
<MADodel Where? As far as I know software mall is the only place to by developer products
<MADodel by = buy
<MADodel I wonder if we can get a discounted copy from Serenity. They probably can sell it as an OEM
<lmaxson The issue is that if it is only a $1000, that's still a bargain.
<lmaxson You can pay twice as much and have Oracle.
<MADodel Only if we can afford the bargain
<lmaxson Or nothing if you can live with MySQL.
<MADodel The last version of Oracle that ran on OS/2 was 7.1 I think, and that was discontinued years ago
<lmaxson It's time for me to go. If you all stick around late for the WD session on Wednesday, I will return to discuss this some more.
<MADodel Also we discussed a developers license before, and that is prohibited from being used in a production environment
<Hoss I' expect to be here.
<lmaxson The real issue lies in the means of storing html or xml documents.
<MADodel OK, Lynn. i will try to be there
<DSOM_eCS Serenity and distributors can sell DB2 at a discounted OEM price if the sale is tried to eCS or WiseXXX products. But, you can always check with Bob for more info.
<lmaxson See you then.
<Hoss why store html? why not store text? and the html elements and bring them together in the desired manner?
<Hoss it's much faster to search the text than search the text buried in the html
<MADodel I wish I had worked with DB2 instead of IMS
<Projects or nothing if we use our current DBExpert (if it'll do the job)
<Hoss here;s your chance madodel ;-)
<MADodel Would that work serving web pages?
<MADodel And can it handle the volume?
<Hoss for preliinary work I see no reason why dbExpert wouldn't do a decent job.
<Hoss but why do the learning for it...
<MADodel That uses DBF files natively doesn't it?
<Hoss and then relearn...
* ** The topic for #VOICE is: Afterhours discussion
<Projects Well, I'm outta here. Later
<Hoss projects? does it? I installed it... but havent' run it/
<MADodel You missed him
<Hoss timming is off again...
<Hoss err still. ;-)
<Hoss I gotta split as well. need to dance with MABell again tomorrow.
<MADodel I thought DBE can front for DB2, but that it can only natively build DBF files?
<MADodel OK, same here, only no dancing
<Hoss ok. cya tomorrow.
<Sector Ok, so long Hoss
<Sector Bye MADodel
<MADodel Actually, if DBExpert can front for DB2, we might be able to start with that, and then continue to use it after moving the backend to DB2
<MADodel We should ask the Sundial guys
<MADodel DBE is REXX enabled
<os2r re
<Sector Hi os2r
<MADodel I don't see any mention of web enablement on the DbExpert features list.
<MADodel Well I'm going to bed. Good night all
<Sector Goodnight MADodel