SpeakUp with Armin Schwarz, author of House/2 from 05/17/99
<Abraxas> Longstaff Hiya
<Longstaff> thank you madodel
<Longstaff> hiya Abraxas
<madodel> no bots
* Sector is a bot
<Sector> He's back
<Longstaff> hiya Fuzy|ogic
<madodel> Sector: that explains a lot, do you frequently get the urge to say 'Warning Will Robinson'?
<madodel> hello Peter
<madodel> Hello Fuzy
<Projects> Hiya Mark
<Sector> madodel: Nope, I just beep a lot
<Projects> where's the bot?
<Sector> Due to storms the bots server had to drop off for now
* Projects looks outside... "No storms... sunny and 70+ degrees outside"
<Sector> 84.5F inside this room...
* David would like a place where its only 70+ outside right now...
<Projects> hey, 70+ is great for here at this time of year
<David> Sector: what? you live in an oven?
<Sector> Nope, just get lots of heat...
<David> Projects: maybe, but where I'm at, its 85+ right now.
<David> 70+ would be nice ;-)
<Projects> David: lucky you... we won't see that temperature for another 2 or 3 months yet :(
<Projects> and we'll get an entire 2 weeks of it, if we're lucky :p
<David> Projects: unlucky me - in 2 or 3 months, it'll be over 100 here.
<David> Projects: oh well, thats what Air Conditioning is for. ;)
<Projects> on the other hand though... we only get about 2 weeks of below freezing per year, so it's a decent trade-off I suppose
<Projects> David: heh... I'll save my $$ there... no sense buying one for 2 weeks use
<David> Projects: we get a couple of "cold" weeks a year - our 'winter', when it'll get down below 40
<Projects> yeah... same here... below -40 for a couple of weeks, then back to rain and slush
<David> too cold. I'm looking for somewhere where the limits are about 40 - 75, and thats it ;-)
<Projects> makes for some heavy shovelling...
<David> shovelling... I've never seen one of those.
<Projects> heh... me too, but work in those places is all taken already :)
<Fuzy|ogic> So who is the house/2 guy?
<David> I'm assuming he isn't here, yet.
<Projects> David: heh... we had 55" in 24 hours a few months back... wish I hadn't seen a shovel then either :)
<David> maybe he can control the weather for us ;-)
<Sector> Not currently present
<Fuzy|ogic> Hmmmm... He doesn't love us. I guess it is early though..
<David> maybe so. oh well, I'm into "Total Annihalation" right now, anyway.
<Longstaff> his alarm did a 3175?
<David> famous numbers.
<Projects> ./whereis Armin
<Projects> I think a /whereis should be included in every IRC client...
*** Blacky (ASchw@sfr-pci-pqu-vty15.as.wcom.net) has joined #voice [20:00:18]
<David> what about a /get? or /grab?
<madodel> where's Wayne also?
<Longstaff> Projects - yes, but there should be some kinda protocol to respond on lookup/fail with 'nobody knows where so-and-so wnet'
<Projects> and /poke /prod would be good too :0
<madodel> Hello Armin
<madodel> Speak of the devil
<Projects> Longstaff: yeah, that's it! :)
<Swanee> Hi all
<Projects> SEE?? My /whereis worked! :)
<Longstaff> hellothere Swanee
<David> must be psychic
<Swanee> Hi Longstaff!
<Sector> Projects, that was my /fetch...
<Projects> coulda been David's /grab...
<David> that one I like. like /fetch me a beer?????
<Blacky> Hello everybody!
<Longstaff> hiya Blacky
<Projects> David: but /grab works too... /grab me a beer
<Projects> or, /whereis the beer?
<Sector> /fetch Projects get the stick
<madodel> So how do I use House/2 to turn on my wife?
<Longstaff> madodel - that's not implemented until the next version :)
<Projects> madodel: you sure she's plugged in?
<madodel> I think she may be shorted out
<Blacky> You laught now. My wife actually is responsible to get me to write HOUSe/2
<madodel> We about ready to start?
<Swanee> OK, one more thing to do and I'll be ready...
<Andy> madodel: get your wife an IR remote to turn theoutside lights on at night and open the main gate. That'll turn her on.
<madodel> Wayne will be doing the intro. Just a couple of announcements.
<Longstaff> are we starting then?
<Fuzy|ogic> Hi Swanee!
*** Marland (Marland@14-ta04wf.idsi.net) has joined #voice [20:06:51]
<Swanee> I'm back
<Swanee> Hi Fuzy|ogic!
<Swanee> Ready Dan?
<madodel> VOICE is hard at work trying to revive the Warp Pharmacy. If you are interested there is a new mail list to organize the project - http://mailer.falcon-net.net:8080/guest/RemoteListSummary/warpdoctor
<madodel> Dan is AWOL
<madodel> The new project is called Warp Doctor
<Swanee> Quiet tonight. I stopped at undernet a bit ago and it's quiet there too.
<Swanee> madodel: No Dan? OK
<Swanee> Welcome to our visit with Armin Schwartz
<Swanee> Armin is the author (as I am sure you know0 of House/2 among other fine projects
<Swanee> Let's start with a little background from Armin on his past history leading up to today. Armin? You have the floor
<Blacky> Hello everybody. My name is Armin Schwarz and I'm an OS/2 user and
<Blacky> developer living in Salt Lake City, Utah, USA. I started using OS/2
<Blacky> just before Warp 3.0 came out after I had been searching for something
<Blacky> better than DOS. In my real job, I'm an Electrical Engineer and my work
<Blacky> involves process automation. I do hardware and software. I am the author
<Blacky> of HOUSE/2 and other OS/2 programs. You can find them at http://home.att.net/~ASchw
<Swanee> Thank you Armin. Are you all set?
<Blacky> Just getting used to IRC :-)
<Swanee> Just as=k if you have a question Armin. We will open the floor to questions now. :-)
<Swanee> as=k = ask
<David> yea! another os/2 user!
<Blacky> I suggest the following items for discussion: X-10 hardware and HOUSE/2 software. Ask lots of questions.
<Swanee> Blacky: Can you tell us more about how your wife actually got you started on House/2?
<Blacky> I wrote HOUSE/2 because of a honey-do. My wife wanted me to leave the outside lights on every night.
* Swanee wishes his wife would "make" him program
<Blacky> I pondered for a few weeks on how to do that. I didn't want to do it manually every night and morning or
<Blacky> use timers or light sensors, they all required drilling and changes in wiring. Too much work.
<Blacky> I had known about X-10 but never really looked at that system. So I went on the web and found the CM11A controller
<Blacky> and a wall switch that would do exactly what I wanted. All I had to do is replace the existing wall switch with the X-10 model.
* Norm gives thanks.... Another engineer!
<Fuzy|ogic> Classic engineer mentality... Too easy to simply flip the switch every night...
<Redoaks> Blacky-Does X-10 resemble the remote units used by devices such as the old regency Energy Management system from the mid-eighties?
<Blacky> The CM11A is programmed via a PC and software was only available for you all know what. So HOUSE/2 was born which turned
<Blacky> really into more work than if I would have installed a light sensor :-) But it is *fun* work.
<madodel> I remember X-10 years ago. Any idea how long has it actually been around?
<Blacky> Madodel, I think about 20 years
<Norm> X-10 has been around since 1974.
<Fuzy|ogic> Where did you find information on programming for X-10 and what additional hardware was needed?
<Blacky> Redoaks - I'm not familiar with that product.
<Longstaff> i/m not familiar at all with what an x-10 is
<Redoaks> Blacky-it was a stand-alone programmable unit that used remote modules through the house wiring.
<Blacky> I found info at www.x10.com. The protocols are available.
<Blacky> X-10 works over the powerlines - no wiring is required.
<Swanee> hmmm... scratch that question :-)
<Projects> will X-10 work on very old powerlines with no grounding?
<Fuzy|ogic> You didn't need anything to plug into a serial port or anything?
<madodel> It uses rf signals doesn't it?
<Blacky> Projects - Yes, but only certain modules (most of them).
<Projects> good... I only have one grounded outlet in the whole place
<Fuzy|ogic> I'm just wondering what the medium of transmission from the PC to the modules is...
<Norm> Only real limitation is it won't work through isolation transformers.
<Swanee> Hi mandie!! (did you think you were me... showing up so late?)
<Blacky> The computer interface (CM11A, the size of a transformer) talks to the PC thru the serial port.
<Swanee> "isolation transformers"?
<Howard> Evening all!
<mandie> Swanee: storm..and it's not over so don't know how long I'll be able to stay :(... I really wanted to hear Armin
<mandie> Howard: g'evening :)
<Blacky> The CM11A to module communication goes thru the powerline.
<WarpHoss> sorry i'm late.
<Swanee> mandie: OK, you're forgiven. :-)
<mandie> Blacky!!! didn't recognize you :)
<mandie> hope someone is logging
<Sector> mandie: Yup
<Swanee> mandie: I am but started a touch late.
<Andy> Blacky: I don't have a CM11A. Will House/2 work with a TW523 on the serial port?
<Projects> any way to get the required hardware without the win-software?
<Swanee> What are "isolation transformers"
<Abraxas> Projects Buy it at Radio Shack :-)
<Blacky> X-10 only works on one leg of a transformer but you can get bridges to go across.
<Projects> Swanee: transformers that aren't allowed to talk to anyone else :)
<Projects> Abraxas: seriously?
<Blacky> Hi Mandie
<Abraxas> Projects yep
<Swanee> Projects: "Embrace and extend" transformers? :-)
* Projects stops his order for the "kit"
<madodel> Projects: I think Radio Shack is the first place I ever saw X-10
<Blacky> HOUSE/2 does not work with the TW523
<mandie> Blacky: sorry I was late and maybe the question was already asked...exactly what do you need for House/2
<DA_MAN> Please excuse my ignorance .. but what is TW523?
<Projects> mandie: money :)
<Blacky> Projects - No, use the CD as a coaster.
<mandie> Projects :)
<Projects> Blacky: I have far too many coasters here already :)
<Andy> TW523 = Two Way X-10 interface
<DA_MAN> thanks Andy
* Swanee is saving his coasters to build furniture with. He has almost enough for a bedroom suite.
<madodel> I thought CM11A is two way?
<Blacky> Mandie - you need the ActiveHome kit ($50 or lower) best bought at www.x10.com Join their mailing list and watch for sales.
<Projects> ActiveHome kit is 49.95 right now, and it says "last day"
<Howard> I've been messing about with X-10 stuff for a while, and House/2 slightly. The connection point is a CM12U which occasionally locks up. Is it faulty, or do they all do it?
<madodel> x10.com is always having some sort of sale. Last weekend everything was 12% off
* Projects is ordering ActiveHome with 3 hawkey motion sensors
<Redoaks> Is there any minimum hardware requirement for all this stuff, or can I dig out an old 386 and make it a dedicated House/2 unit?
<Blacky> Project - Last day since over a year ago. It's been as low as $37. Don't get fooled by their ads.
<Projects> heh... figures :p
<Howard> Projects: you don't know how lucky you are over there - that $50 oner here (England) would be nearly ±200!
<Projects> Howard: similar here too... I'm not in the US. Our dollar's worth about 0.02 US
<Swanee> Can we slow the pace of the questions just a bit. Try to offer your question when Armin looks like he has finished one
<Swanee> Have it ready and just hit enter. (this should be good) We'd rather not have to moderate but we need to let Armin keep up.
<madodel> so many questions so little time
<David> would you prefer it the other way???
<Blacky> Howard - the CM11A/CM12U does lock up. I had troubles too. See my X-10 and HOUSE/2 FAQ at http://home.att.net/~ASchw
* Swanee thinks Armins index fingers are getting blistered from typing. :-)
<Blacky> Remember, I'm an engineer and always precise at answering :-)
<Howard> Blacky: Wilco - ta!
* Norm suspects Armins types with two fingers....
<madodel> I thought CM11A is two way?
<David> come on now - live a little - approximate!
<Blacky> X-10 has three PC based controllers: CP290, TW523 and the CM11A. The CP290 does not report external X-10 events.
<Blacky> I think the TW523 (internal card) is two-way as it can receive external X-10 events. So is the CM11A.
<madodel> So an X-10 module can send back it's current state to the CM11A?
<Projects> hint- if you're at the X-10 page and ready to order, DON'T use the browser stop button after you've selected something...
<Blacky> Only the two-way modules (LM14A, AM14A and RM501)
<Blacky> These two-way modules are around $30. The regular modules are $10. Best to get them at www.asihome.com He has good prices.
<Swanee> Redoaks asks> Is there any minimum hardware requirement for all this stuff, or can I dig out an old 386 and make it a dedicated House/2 unit?
<Blacky> If you can make OS/2 run on a 386, it should work. make sure you got 16MB or more.
<mandie> does it run on warp 3 also?
* Projects ran OS/2 an OS/2 bbs on a 386 with 8mb ram for several years
<Blacky> It's developed on Warp 3, yes.
* Sector had OS/2 2.0 running on a 386DX with 8 megs
* Projects used 2.11 and 3.0 with 8mb... worked just fine
<Blacky> HOUSE/2 will need Warp 3 or later.
<Swanee> The computer just sets it up doesn't it? I mean it doesn't have to stay connected, is that correct?
<Redoaks> Sounds like a great use for a dumpster candidate
<mandie> Readoaks: agreed :)
<Blacky> No need to stay connected with the PC. Just set it up.
<Swanee> Redoaks: Really. A guy could still make it worthwhile instead of tossing it.
<Abraxas> Blacky I have a question relating to Timer Events
<Blacky> If you dedicate a PC to it, you can record all events. A 386 should be fine.
<Redoaks> We have plenty of testimony to Warp 3 on a 386
<Blacky> Abraxas - shoot
<Abraxas> I've setup House/2 with the Active Home kit ... and set a Coffee Maker and Light to come on at 5:30AM .... neither will come on
<Blacky> Anybody out there with a Cp290?
<Abraxas> Both units work from the keyboard control as well as the remote
<Marland> blacky: i have a couple of cp290's (and cm11a's)
<Blacky> Abraxas - did you enable upload and then actually upload it?
<Abraxas> Blacky yes, I did ... and the EEPROM status shows (at the time of upload) the date and bytes used ... but now (a day later) the eeprom status shows UNKNOWN
<madodel> I see the check box to "upload to interface", if I don't upload, will House/2 control the device timing of events instead of the CM11A?
<madodel> Or do you have to always upload?
<Blacky> Abraxas - send me the SET file and the MACRO.PRM file sometime.
<Abraxas> I just tried it again, and this time it showed twice as many bytes stored in eeprom .... go figure :-)
<Blacky> Madodel - no, you must upload to the CM11A.
<madodel> So House/2 is not directly controling the devices? Just programmming the interface?
<Blacky> Abraxas - what is the date range set to?
<Abraxas> Blacky Jan 1 to Dec 31
<Blacky> Madodel - House/2 controls the modules, but you must activate the sliders.
<Blacky> Abraxas - Use the HOUS2UTL program to decode the MACRO.PRM file and it will tell you what got uploaded.
<Abraxas> I just reset the coffee pot to come on at 7:50 PM (3 minutes from now) ... will let you know
<madodel> Yes I knew the sliders did, but the Defines don't have any efffect unless uploaded
<madodel> isn't it a little late for coffee?
<Blacky> Madodel - That's correct. HOUSE/2 does no timed execution - yet.
<Projects> Blacky: question about the hous2utl app... I'm downloading house/2 right now from bmt. Do I need the h2utl17b.zip as well, or is that in the house2.zip that I'm downloading?
<Redoaks> Never too late for coffee :)
<Blacky> Marland - HOUSE/290 will come out soon.
<Blacky> Projects - Check the About box - I'm not sure if I refreshed the archive at BMT.
<Howard> Redoaks: it's 01:50 here - I think *that's* too late!
<Projects> Blacky: 'kay, thanks
<Sector> Howard: That's not late, it's early
<mandie> Blacky: do you need to use a scheduling program in conjunction with House/2 in order to get timed events?
<Redoaks> Howard: Well, you can have a tea :(
<Howard> Redoaks: One of my failings as an Englishman: I don't drink tea! :-)
<Marland> blacky: that's OK -- i wrote my own code for cm11a and cp290; i prefer a batch interface instead of a gui one.
<Blacky> No scheduling program needed. Once the timers are uploaded, they will execute in the CM11A. No PC required.
<mandie> ah, ok
<Redoaks> Howard: :))
<Abraxas> Well, it came on :-)
<mandie> Abraxas: and then there was coffee!
<Howard> Blacky: Do you know if there's a 2-way lightswitch module available in 240v?
<Blacky> Marland - HOUSE/290 is REXX-enabled.
<David> guess you'll have to get up at 5:24 to set your coffee maker to start at 5:30 ;-)
<Marland> blacky: that's great.... more os/2 programs should do that.
<Blacky> I don't know of a two-way light switch period. Only modules, I'd like one myself.
<Howard> Drat! My hall light is a prime candidate, but I need to switch it from up and downstairs.
<Blacky> Howard - two-way in X-10 speak means it talks back. Are you refering to master-slave?
<Blacky> There are master slave switches available for stairs etc.
<Projects> it talks back? /me cancels his order... have enough people around here that talk back already
<Howard> Sorry - I meant normal-wiring 2-way (2 DPST switches, each able to switch on/off)
<David> DPST? you mean SPDT...
<Howard> Whoops! Yes I did (it's late! :-)
<Marland> howard: the master/slave work like (and replace) ordinary 3-way switches
<David> oops - Elvis has Left the building...
* Projects didn't do it!
<Swanee> dum, de dum dum...
<David> come back! come back!
<mandie> Blacky come HOME!
<Howard> Marland: What is the wiring between them?
<Sector> /fetch Blacky
<David> if this works,.... I'm scared.
<Marland> just like a 3-way switch. there are several ways you can wire them.
<mandie> or we could say, this is your House/2 :)
<Marland> you can also get a wireless switchpad so you can run the light w/o putting in new wiring.
* Projects has a sign "These premises protected by OS/2"... now it'll really apply :)
<Abraxas> Projects just be careful where and how you set up thos motion sensors ..... they can be quite irritating :-)
<Norm> Heh heh, we used to have a problem with ants in motion sensors.
<Projects> Abraxas: I have one of those exterior lights that have motion/heat detectors... I know how irritating they can be :)
<madodel> buggy eh?
<Swanee> AHA! He's back!
<Norm> madodel: Yep.
<Abraxas> madodel Ohhhhhh that was BAD!!!!
<Blacky> My line went down.
<Norm> (He just doesn't want to tell us he's on an NT box...)
<Blacky> BTW, House/2 is on sale this week at bmt micro, you save $5.
<David> not connected thru AOL, are you??? ;-)
* mandie notes that David is bad...very bad :)
<David> sorry... I run an ISP, and I HATE AOL! HATE AOL! HATE AOL!
<mandie> David :)
<Howard> Blacky: How does a master/slave X-10 pair work?
<Redoaks> David: Boy-I'm not gonna mess with you!
<Blacky> Some time tonight I will ask a trivia question and the winner will get a free HOUSE/2 registration.
<Blacky> Master-slave allows to turn on one light from two different places.
<mandie> these "trivia" times are the only time that I wish I wasn't a VOICE officer :(
<David> Redoaks: thats OK, we're a 'good' ISP
* madodel isn't an officer, but already has registered House/2
<Howard> Right - known as "2-way" here! Are *they* available in 240v (preferably -U configuration :-)
<Redoaks> mandie- wwe can all chip in and buy you one
<David> madodel: then you could get it for mandie
<mandie> Readoaks: aww, that's kind :)
<mandie> I should have bought it last year when Armin was demoing at Warpstock 98
<Blacky> Howard - check around on the net. There are schematics out there that show how to convert.
* Abraxas bought House/2 after reading all thos good articles in the VOICE Newsletter (shamless plug)
<Howard> Blacky: OK, I'll do that.
<Blacky> BTW, two-way modules can be interrogated with software to find out on/off/dim status. Or find out if the bulb is burnt out.
<mandie> shameless spelling!
<Abraxas> hehe ... that too, mandie
<Blacky> Mandie - maybe Warpstock '99?
* Abraxas had to turn off Spellguard ... that incessant beeping was driving me nuts :-)
<mandie> Blacky: I'll be there! I take it you will be there again this year :)
<Blacky> I'm planing to be in Atlanta.
<mandie> Blacky: have you ever thought of having some of the ActiveHome kits on hand for sale also?...would make it very convenient for ppl :)
<Projects> mandie: I like your style :)
<Blacky> Yes, I have though about it even last year. We'll see.
* Projects thinks his order didn't go through on the X-10 site... some database locked thing...
<mandie> ok :)
<mandie> so you just neeed the 49.99 kit to get up and running
<mandie> oh, and House/2 of course :)
<Projects> and House/2
<Swanee> Blacky: What's the weirdest use for House/2 that you've come across, or that someone has admitted to you? (Dumb question but "people want to know")
<Blacky> BTW, I don't recommend using X-10 for coffee makers or heaters (unless you want to burn down your own house).
<Projects> unless you've defected, and will be happy with the included coaster :)
<mandie> blacky: bummer...is there something that you do recommend for coffee makers?
<Projects> Swanee: wanna know what I'm doing with it? Running a reptile cage lights/heater :)
<Abraxas> Blacky great .... NOW you tell me :-)
<mandie> Abraxas: just save the coffee to put the fire out!
<Swanee> Projects: That's a start, but c'mon Peter... I'm talking weird!
<Projects> Swanee: and if the rodents needed lights/heat, I'd do it there too :)
<Redoaks> Swanee: How about full volume Pink Floyd to rock you to sleep-then wake you in the AM
<Blacky> I'm just overly careful, that's all ;-)
<Swanee> Redoaks: That's not weird, that's a great idea!
<madodel> The SR227 units I bought are rated at 1800 Watts
<Projects> Swanee: how about an automatic feeder for the snake? Preset day to dump a rodent into the snake cage... hmm...
* mandie doesn't consider not wanting to burn you house down as being "overly careful"
<Swanee> Projects: LOL
<Redoaks> I used to do that with the Regency
* Projects sets about engineering a feeder... gotta move the rodents to above the snake cage... hmm...
<Abraxas> Funny ... the manual that came with ACtiveHome kit ... step one was to plug the coffee maker into the Transceiver unit
<Redoaks> (before marriage)
* Fuzy|ogic must go home now...
<Swanee> g'night Fuzzy!
<Redoaks> Blacky- what's your upgrade policy?
<Blacky> I had one wall switch burn out and it actually shorted so the light stayed on all the time. An appliance module may just burn out the contacts and fail safe.
<mandie> ah, there's an 8% discount right now..total $46.00
<Howard> I use it to turn on an electric kettle in the morning - just have to remember to put water in it in the evening (it has a steam-triggered turn-off - the norm here)
<Swanee> Yeah... that sounds like good reason not to heat or make coffe with it.
<Projects> mandie: you ordering at X-10's site now?
<Blacky> Upgrades will always be free. I will also include HOUSE/290 with HOUSE/2. HOUSE/290 will also be available separately. Isn't that a deal?
<mandie> Projects: yes
<Andy> Blacky: Since House/2 is being developed for the 290 with REXX-enable, is there any chance House/2 will ever be developed for the TW523 ?
<Redoaks> Good man :)
<Projects> mandie: let me know what happens... I don't think my order made it through, but I don't want to resubmit just in case.
<mandie> projects: will do
<Howard> Blackie: I can't remember if I registered House/2 - do you keep records of who has ? (sorry to be a pain)
<mandie> what ordering instructions do they want.....
<Projects> no idea... I left that blank
<Andy> Projects: It is cheaper at http://www.baran-harper.com/bh007.htm
<Swanee> Are there any other questions for Armin before we start to wrap it up?
<mandie> probably why it didn't go through :)
<Projects> Andy: thanks... if my order didn't go through, I'll try there :)
<Blacky> Andy - The TW523 is a different animal and not available anymore. I doubt I will support it. Even the CP290 is totally different that the CM11A.
<mandie> I'm on my way....just in the nick of time :)
<Blacky> Howard - email me personally.
<Andy> TW523 is still for sale.
<mandie> great, they have so many items listed...you'd have to know exactly what you need to get it from them
<Blacky> X-10 came out with the Firecracker, another PC interface. Only interactive, no memory, but supports RF.
<Projects> Blacky: am I gonna break anything if I run House/2 without the proper hardware? Just want to look for now. Too bad one can't download the hardware :)
<Howard> Folks: It's been fun, but I must catch some Zs before I have to get up in 4.5 hours time - 'night all!
<Projects> mandie: the CK11A Active home 5 piece interface kit looks like it...
<Redoaks> I'm sold. I really miss the old Regency. This sounds much better.
<Redoaks> Goodnight Howard
<Blacky> Projects - House/2 runs without the hardware, Just not as much fun. You won't break anything.
<mandie> that's 74.39..alot more expensive
<mandie> sorry, 80.85
<Projects> Blacky: thanks... :)
<Swanee> Projects: You can test it without x-10's but keep an eye on your electric razor. They have a habit of flying away.
<Andy> Blacky: Earlier there was mention of the CM11A having some kind of failure. I use the TW523 for a security and home automation and it never fails. How reliable is the House/2 with CM11A ?
<Projects> Swanee: hahaha
<mandie> hmm..what's a free palmpad and slimfire
<mandie> must they use the term "fire"
<Projects> mandie: dunno, but that's what I went for :)
<Blacky> Slimfile is a small keychain remote.
* Abraxas bought the deluxe kit .... about $150.00 :-)
<Abraxas> I have more remotes and motion sensors than I know what to do with :-)
* Projects doesn't have Abraxas's money, or he would too
<Blacky> Palmpad is a large keychain the size of a PalmPilot :-)
<mandie> ok :)
<Sector> Projects: All you need is his credit card
<Projects> Sector: I know... been trying to get it, but no luck :)
<David> Projects: or his credit card number...
<Swanee> Abraxas: Yeah but you have to keep the front of your house well lit in case some angry husband comes around.
<madodel> I had bought the CK11A and 4 wall modules and they sent me a bunch of those keychain things and several hawk eyes
<Blacky> Andy - I don't have any reports of problems with House/2. If I do, I usually fix them righ away.
<Abraxas> Swanee not anymore ... my new Glock 19 has Trijicon Nightsights on it :-)
<Swanee> Abraxas: lol, going all out now huh? :-)
<Projects> hrm... /me is a bit suspicious of a site that sells stuff, but can't speel on their webpage
<Sector> /msg Projects: Here it is 0000 0000 0000 0000 exp: 01/01
<David> Blacky: something not on topic, - I see on your site you have software to hook to a APC UPS. Will that also work with a TripLite?
<Abraxas> Projects what'd they do ... mispell cheque again?
<Projects> Abraxas: nothing that drastic... "... we can ship you product" instead of "... your product"
<Blacky> UPS Monitor is only designed for the APC UPS. I doubt it will work on Triplite.
<mandie> projects: it's just sitting there waiting for response
<David> Projects: picky...picky...picky...
<Redoaks> Maybe it's an Italian site :)
<Projects> possible :)
<mandie> Projects: they use "your" in their .inf file :)
<Abraxas> good one, mandie :-)
<mandie> The Database appears to be in a locked state.
<Projects> mandie: that's what I got too
<mandie> did you do what it said to do?
<Blacky> Everybody ready for the trivia question?
<Projects> mandie: nope... chicken :)
<Swanee> Redoaks: If it were Italian wouldn't it be "we ship you product" Oh no... that would be native american...
<Abraxas> Blacky go for it :-)
<mandie> projects: well, considering that there's no "Utilities" menu...I won't try it either :)
<mandie> g'luck all
<WarpHoss> yeah just do it.
<Blacky> Trivia question time: How long did it take to develop and release the first version of HOUSE/2? I'm looking for
<Projects> Swanee: actually, it's a canadian company :p
<Blacky> a number and time units (seconds ... milleniums, you choose). You have 5 minutes to post your answer.
<Blacky> The first one appearing on my screen, who is the closest, wins.
<Projects> mandie: guess if it arrives, the order worked. If it doesn't, it didn't :)
<Swanee> Projects: opps... native canadien...
<Andy> Will the CM11A do everything the TW523 does? I need the return X-10 signals from motion detectors etc to trigger other prgms such as playing a WAV or displaying a screen with the layout of the alarm and sending outer X-10 signal as a result of If-Then-Else. Will House/2 let me do that?
<Blacky> Andy - House/2 ver 2.0 will do that.
<Redoaks> Swanee- It might be "we shippa you product"
<mandie> I don't see any answers to the trivia question
<Blacky> House/2 ver 2.0 will be out sometimes this year.
<Abraxas> Blacky and when might we expect to see version 2.0?
<Abraxas> Ahh ...
<Swanee> Blacky: Was House/2 your first app or was it done after you had already done a few? (trivia question hint?)
<Swanee> Redoaks: lol!
<Andy> Triva answer: 1 month, 1 week, 1 day, and 1 hour. (wild guess.)
<Blacky> I had done two games first: Memory Game and Leave One.
<Redoaks> Trivia - 2 years
<mandie> Projects: it didn't go through. We should have received a UPS tracking #
<Projects> mandie: ah... thought so.
<Swanee> OK gang, he was already started with programming so how long...
* Swanee hears the theme to Jeopardy playing in the background...
<David> do I fail if I don't answer??? been busy - have to keep skipping to keep up ;-)
<Zoltan> Trivia - when wife said you are finished with it minus start time
<Blacky> Do I need to give a hint?
<Projects> Blacky: in answer to your answer to my earlier question.. the utils in the house2.zip is version 1.7, not 1.7b
<Swanee> Keep guessing you guys... Voice officers cannot guess
<David> trivia - 3 weeks (wild guess)
<StevenL> Ok, I'll guess. 3 man months.
<Swanee> Zoltan: LOL!!! Great answer! :-)
<Blacky> I think I recently updated HOUS2UTIL. I try to fix things as they are reported.
<Swanee> Blacky: They might need you to play high/low with them
<David> shouldn't it be 'when wife said finished' - 'when wife SAID you started' ;-)
<mandie> watch it guys!
<Blacky> So far everybody is low,
<David> I know who my boss is ;-)
<StevenL> I was afaid of that.
<WarpHoss> trivia> 365 days.
<David> well, I saw one for '2 years', was that low also?
<StevenL> OK. 6 man months. Where are all the speculators?
<Andy> Triva answer: 6 months (2nd. wild guess.)
<Swanee> Redoaks' 2 years was LOW?
<Swanee> Is this a trick question? Like, "It's not finished yet"?
<Blacky> 2 years is to high.
<mandie> placing order by phone
<Andy> Triva answer: 6 months and 1 day (3nd. wild guess.)
<Swanee> hehe OK, I figured you must have missed the 2 year answer. :-)
<Redoaks> Oh well...
<Projects> order me one too, while your at it... :)
<mandie> projects: serious/
<StevenL> 6 months and 2 days.
<Andy> hee hee
<Swanee> Zoltan has the answer if he could extend his formula
<Projects> mandie: hrm... sure, why not. The 69.95 thing
<Andy> Triva answer: 6 months and 3 days
<Blacky> Cut-off time for the trivia.
* Projects didn't think mandie would be serious :)
<Zoltan> Well I bought it last year, so I am out.
<David> thats ok. What was the answer?
<Swanee> Zoltan: You could get a second copy for your wife to use in her house after she sees what you wrote here. :-)
<Blacky> The correct answer is 8 month. Sector is the winner with 7 mo 1 week.
<Swanee> Yeaaaa Sector!!!
<Redoaks> Congrats Sector
<mandie> Projects: he said.....
<Swanee> Hip hip hooray!
<Sector> Hmmm, I thought it was 7 months, 1 week, 2 days, 3 hours, 5 minutes, 7 seconds, 8 microseconds...
<Projects> mandie: she said....
<mandie> that their system is sooo busy right now that it can't issue confirmation #'s fast enough
<mandie> said that the order should have gone through and we should receive email confirmation later tonight
<mandie> if not..call back tomorrow
<David> yea, right. sounds like 'NT to me.
<Swanee> Sector: What, no nanoseconds? Sheez... talk about approximate
<Projects> mandie: ah. ok. Thanks
<mandie> ok :)
<mandie> Sector: congrats!!!
<mandie> now try to get the ActiveHome!
* Abraxas congratulates Sector .....see .. hanging out in #voice 24/7 soemtimes pays off :-)
<WarpHoss> Swanee> What's your new address? send it to me please.
<Sector> Hey, I got to live somewhere...
<Swanee> We want to that Armin for being here with us tonight and now open the floor to any general discussion. Like how will Zoltan hide this log from his wife. :-)
<Abraxas> Well, you picked a good neighborhood :-)
<Projects> Abraxas: it's firstname.lastname@example.org, but he's got 3 isp's, and uses all the addresses to make sure he gets something :)
<Swanee> WarpHoss: email@example.com
<StevenL> Thx Armin.
<Redoaks> Thank you Armin
<Blacky> About the TW523 - if I want to support it, I have to buy it and I also have to have the protocol.
<WarpHoss> Swanee> Thanks.
<Andy> Thanks Armin!
<Swanee> WarpHoss: You bet Abel. My old addy still works too though.
<Blacky> With the CM11A and House/2 I had to do alot of reverse-engineering eventhough the protocoil is available.
<David> very interesting Armin
<Andy> TW523 = $30
<Swanee> Thank you Armin. I'm glad your typing skills stayed awake. :-)
<mandie> Armin: thanks for presenting House/2 tonight and thanks for supporting the OS/2 community!! :)
<Andy> I don't know about the protocol for the TW523
<mandie> I've heard that before!
<Blacky> Thanks to everybody who supports my OS/2 programs. The support is mutual. Keep looking at my website for upgrades and new programs.
<David> 'brb' always looks like 'burp', to me. ;-)
<mandie> sure will
<Projects> David: me too... :)
<Projects> Blacky: thanks to you for supporting OS/2 :)
<Abraxas> Blacky will do ... and thanks .... dunno what I was doing wrong, but the system seems to have accepted the programming, this time :-)
* Abraxas is happy now .... my coffee will be ready when I get up in the morning :-)
<David> yea, right. like - it never fails when the tech is around, kinda thing ;-)
<Abraxas> David exactly :-)
<WarpHoss> Swan>Look for e-mail.
<David> you know, of course, tomorrow morning, *NO COFFEE* ;-)
<David> better get his telephone number, before he gets away (sure... I can do that ;-)
<Abraxas> David that's what I figure ....but it can't hurt to hope
* mandie is going to bring House/2 to Warpstock 99 and set it up to "sensor" detect where Dan and Wayne are!
<WarpHoss> Mandie I know where they'll be!
<Abraxas> mandie just put a Hawkeye in the bar (with a Smoke Detector, too) :-)
<WarpHoss> And don not need House/2.
<Andy> Blacky: Sorry I'm not ready to jump on the CM11A. I have been using X-10 for about 20 years and have about 100 devices all running under an elaborate DOS prgm called HC2000. Until now I have never seen any other prgm that came close to being able to do what I already do. But I'll gladly help you test anything you make for the TW523.
<mandie> WarpHoss: with YOU in the BAr :)
<Projects> mandie: but you'll have to stick an X-10 module up each of their butts...
<mandie> Projects: I'm a nurse remember :)
<Projects> mandie: you are? hehe... you're all set then :)
<WarpHoss> Xactly. Mandie or at the buffet!
<mandie> WarpHoss: that'll work too :)
<David> that module: ON or OFF?
* mandie is looking forward to WArpstock 99
<Abraxas> Speaking of online orders .....I ordered a SCSI ORB Drive from IB yesterday :-)
<mandie> David: AUTO :)
<Blacky> Andy - will see if the protocol is available, but can't promise anything.
<David> I can see I'm gonna have to go to WS'99, just to meet all these jokers ;-)
<madodel> Any word yet on hotel reservations?
<mandie> David: it's well work it!
* Projects sobs
<Andy> Blacky: I can put you in touch with the author of HC2000, I was a beta tester for him many years ago. He might be able to provide the protocol for TW523.
<mandie> Madodel: I'm hoping this week :(
<Abraxas> David yep .... and you won't regret the trip ..... we all had a BLAST last year :-)
<Blacky> Andy - cool.
<David> sure sounds like it. think I'm going to want a booth. any idea when things are available?
<Blacky> Abraxas - will the ORB work under OS/2 ?
<mandie> is Decker Automation the same interface as House/2 ?
<Abraxas> Blacky yep .... it will
<mandie> I recall from Efnet that Derek Decker had some automation software also
<mandie> David: have you checked the WArpstock homepage:
<Blacky> mandy - Decker has a program for the CP290 ASAIK. It's REXX-enabled.
<mandie> ah, ok
<David> not lately. guess I should, again.
<mandie> David: we hoping that registration will start this week
<Blacky> ASAIK = AFAIK
<mandie> we=we're :)
<David> ISP business is more hectic than a turkey around thanksgiving. You don't have time for ANYTHING important. just customers.
<mandie> <--- reads typos :)
<David> sometimes the typos are more readable than the proper spelling.
<mandie> david: where are you located?
<David> down in south Texas.
<mandie> are you a domain host?
<mandie> what's your url?
<David> www.InSPired-Designs.Net is main one.
<Blacky> OK, thanks everybody for putting up with my slow typing. Hope to see you all at Warpstock 99. Good night.
<mandie> Blacky: gnite and thank you
<Projects> slow typing? It appeared quite quickly here... :)
<mandie> Projects: that should tell you something :)
<Abraxas> Thanks, again, Blacky
<Projects> mandie: :)
<mandie> David: what type of connection do you have?
<David> Blacky - keep up the OS/2 work!
<Redoaks> Goodnight armin
<David> mandie: currently, we have a variable connect with from 2 to 8 ISDNs, and 1 T1, depending on the load in/out.
* mandie hopes she's not being "too" nosey :)
<David> we pay upstream based on bandwidth utilized, so we keep it low.
<Blacky> David - you bet!
<David> mandie: is more than welcome to ask. I am more than welcome to not answer, but not to someone that uses OS/2...NEVER
<DA_MAN> David: are you an OS/2 Isp (as in your servers are os/2 ) ..
<David> I'm the only ISP I know of that uses OS/2 servers. I assume there are more, but don't know.
<David> been VERY happy with it. survives all kind of 'hacker attacks.
<mandie> www.inspired-designs.net is running Apache/1.3.3 (OS/2) on DIGITAL UNIX
<mandie> way to go!!
<David> well, thats what Apache says... actually, thats just one of the 3 OS/2 servers we have here.
<David> other two run Apache/PHP 1.3.6
<DA_MAN> david: there is an Os/2 isp mailing list ..
<David> I know, but that would suggest I have 'time' to manage these things.............
<Zoltan> Good night everyone, got to do some Z-s.
<David> this is the first FREE time I've had for about 2 weeks.
*** Signoff: Zoltan (Leaving) [22:09:23]
<David> Zol: plesant dreams
<mandie> David: very well put!
<mandie> First, I believe that one of the prime reasons we're all here, is to help each other in our development and growth.
<mandie> That development is furthered by communication and experience with one another.
<David> totally AGREE
<David> thats why I'm changing our policy on 'operating hours' to say "I'm gone when there is a 'VOICE chat' ;-)
<mandie> wonderful!!!! you are very welcome :)
* StevenL Netcraft reports are notoriously wrong wrt OS/2.
<mandie> StevenL: that's what I've read
<David> sorry, I'm very suspicious of ANY press. seems they're all owned by M$ ;-)
<mandie> StevenL: we must both belong to the POSSI mailing list :)
<StevenL> mandie: yep.
<mandie> David: "Designs" do you do web site design?
<madodel> Anyone been to news.stardock.com/stardock.os2 lately? A lot discussion on a new client
<David> mandie: yes, if you look at the 'business' pages, we did every one, except the angelfire one (of course).
<mandie> madodel: do you think there is "any" chance of this coming to be?
<Swanee> madodel: I have been but not for the lst day or two
<mandie> David: ah, ok
<David> some don't work yet, still in design stage.
<madodel> You are asking the wrong person Judy. Ask your buddy Brad
<Swanee> mandie: Stardock invited the discussion so maybe Brad can tell you more.
<mandie> madodel: buddy not...associate..maybe...acquaintence..yes :)
<mandie> Swanee: I've invited him for a speakup on the subject :)
<Swanee> mandie: How about a hard hitting report for the newsletter under the guise of a soft and gentle woman?
<mandie> and where would I find one of those :)
<Swanee> We CAN erase that from the log if we do a covert action on this can't we?
<Swanee> mandie: I don't think you'd have to look far. :-)
<mandie> the log shouldn't even be running now..the speakup is over
<David> just out of curiosity, what HAS ibm's response been to these voice sessions?
<David> do they even take any kind of interest?
<mandie> we are basically end users so IBM could care less
<mandie> we do have some IBM'ers that support us and are happy to be our guests at speakups
<mandie> Mike Kaply, Tim Sipples, Mike Persell, Sam Detweiler
<Swanee> David: In general, I don't think the general IBM'er even knows about them but we have had a couple of very good guests from IBM to do speakups and they were quite good.
<David> you know, you'd think IBM would figure out what Apple has. that the end-users actually drive a part of the business market.
<Projects> IBM is stupid :p
<David> I remember a couple of them. Sipples, I think
<Redoaks> I don't think taht IBM wnats to fight for that business
<David> certainly appears they are 'intelligence challenged'
<Swanee> David: Yep, and even doing something cute is really good for business. Look at the iMac
<mandie> it wouldn't be a fight...it would mean providing support and they don't want to put money out for that
<David> have you seen the sales figures on the iMac, and G3 boxes?
<mandie> ah...fight M$..gotch
<David> Apple can't build them fast enough to get them to the stores, around here...
<Swanee> I think mandie has said it for the most part. That is why a support system like we are discussing could be very important in the future.
<Redoaks> I once wrote IBM to support the system and farm out the support-I got a long useless form letter in return
<David> still don't understand IBM's attitude. who says that you have to FIGHT them? small conversions have a way of blossoming, sometimes.
<Swanee> Redoaks: The letter from Sipples asked a few questions that I thought were pretty telling.
<David> just look at the way weeds pop up in you're yard?
<Swanee> David: Unless you're me... I can't even get WEEDS to grow very well
<David> the 'suspension' of the WIN/OS2 project, I think, is going to be one of the BIG failures for OS/2, I'm afraid.
<mandie> why did that go by the wayside?
<Swanee> David: My feeling on that is more like "six of one and half a dozen of the other"
<Redoaks> I have quite a few friends and relatives in IBM-one service rep told me that IBM love NT because they get $250.00 an hour for tech calls, and he makes much more of them on NT
<David> not totally sure. I heard 'moved on to other projects'... I would have given GOOD money for that project.
<Swanee> Netlabs is trying to pick up the torch still.
<David> 'NT, another one of my HATED subjects.
<David> my OS/2 servers run WEEKS at a time, with no failures AT ALL.
<David> my upstream providers ONE 'NT server - has to be reset ONCE A NITE.
<Redoaks> David: thats the point-no support fees for IBM on you
<David> and maintenance at least ONCE A WEEK, to fix problems it develops.
<Swanee> Sat night we went out and a freind of mine that works at an aerospace co here said they are getting a new system and it works great when they are testing but when a second user gets on it the whole system locks up.
<David> so, in other words, let a product DIE simply because its better.
<Swanee> NT? I asked? Yep, they're going to NT
<David> sounds like the american way, to me.
<David> excuse me, 'american way' -> capitalism
<mandie> you wonder why ppl just can't see it
<Swanee> The bigwigs say it goes online June 1 so it better be ready. This guy says they can't make it run with 2 users so what will happen when 500 get on it?
<Redoaks> Look at it this way-the squelching of Warp is one of the great tragedies of the 20th century. $$
<mandie> Redoaks: I totally agree :(
<David> have you seen the press lately? ISP weekly doesn't even MENTION OS/2. everything is 'NT, or windows 2000.
<David> people don't see it, because the press doesn't write it, and they don't write it, because there is no interest in a 'dead' OS.
<Redoaks> mandie: :( "Y"
<Swanee> David: Natch... Everybody "thinks" it's good but the real techs at the large companies know better. Sadly... many times, they don't get to make their own decisions.
<Swanee> Hi DaveWgt
<Redoaks> I think people don't se it because M$ is such a great wooler-puller-overer
<Sector> Eek, an intruder...
<David> of course they don't. thats because the people that DO make the decisions, have "Windows'98" at home.
<Redoaks> Go to IBM-They have it at work too.
<David> if its good enough to work "at home", it'll work in the office.
<Swanee> David: I do beleive that makes a lot of difference
<mandie> going to take off...thanks to all for coming tonight
<mandie> nytol :)
<Redoaks> Goodnight mandie
<Swanee> I need to run too. Good night everybody!
<David> I like that 'time wasted...'
<Redoaks> I'm going to follow-g'nite all
* Abraxas thanks everyone for attending tonight :-)
<David> dropping like flys... I've got to go, too
<David> Abraxas: see you next time ;-)
<StevenL> See you next time...
<Abraxas> g'night, David
<StevenL> Bye all...
*** StevenL has left #voice [22:36:30]
*** Signoff: madodel (irc.us.webbnet.org irc.pa2.webbnet.org) [22:37:19]
<DA_MAN> l8tr all ..
<Projects> LOL! Anyone read the teamos2help-l post about BSOD's?
<Projects> anyone still here?
<Projects> I know you are! :)
<Projects> did you read it?
* Abraxas doesn't subscribe to that list
* Sector doesn't either
<Projects> ah... I'll forward it to you... it's great :)
<Projects> hrm... maybe I should paste it here
<Projects> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Microsoft Announces Improved BSOD
<Projects> In a surprise announcement today, Microsoft President Steve Ballmer
<Projects> revealed that the Redmond based company will allow computer resellers
<Projects> and end-users to customize the appearance of the Blue Screen of Death
<Projects> (abbreviated BSOD), the screen that displays when the Windows operating
<Projects> system crashes.
<Projects> The move comes as the result of numerous focus groups and customer
<Projects> surveys done
<Projects> by Microsoft. Thousands of Microsoft customers were asked, "What do you
<Projects> spend the most time doing on your computer?"
<Projects> A surprising number of respondents said, "Staring at a Blue Screen of
<Projects> Death". At 54 percent, it was the top answer, beating the second place
<Projects> answer "Downloading XXXScans" by an easy 12 points.
<Projects> "We immediately recognized this as a great opportunity for ourselves,
<Projects> our channel partners, and especially our customers." explained the
<Projects> excited Ballmer to a room full of reporters.
<Marland> that's funny
<Projects> Immense video displays were used to show images of the new customizable
<Projects> BSOD screen side-by-side with the older static version. Users can select
<Projects> from a collection of "BSOD Themes", allowing them to instead have a
<Projects> Mauve Screen of Death or even a Paisley Screen of Death. Graphics and
<Projects> multimedia content can now be incorporated into the screen, making the
<Projects> BSOD the perfect conduit for delivering product information and
<Projects> entertainment to Windows users.
<Projects> it gets better... lemme get to the linux part :)
<Projects> The Blue Screen of Death is by far the most recognized feature of the
<Projects> Windows (tm) operating system, and as a result, Microsoft has
<Projects> historically insisted on total control over its look-and-feel. This
<Projects> recent departure from that policy reflects Microsoft's recognition of
<Projects> the Windows desktop itself as the "ultimate
<Projects> information portal." By default, the new BSOD will be configured to show
<Projects> a random selection of Microsoft product information whenever the system
<Projects> crashes. Microsoft channel partners can negotiate with Microsoft for
<Projects> the right to customize the BSOD on systems they ship.
<Projects> Major computer resellers such as Compaq, Gateway, and Dell are already
<Projects> lining up for premier placement on the new and improved BSOD.
<Projects> Balmer concluded by getting a dig in against the Open Source community.
<Projects> "This just goes to show that Microsoft continues to innovate at a much
<Projects> faster pace than open source. I have yet to see any evidence that Linux
<Projects> even has a BSOD, let alone a customizable one."
<Abraxas> Time to go ..... cya all later :-)
<Marland> That was great... I agree... time to go... by all
<Projects> well...guess I'm off too... laters!
* Sector wonders where everyone could be going