06-01-98 17:12:23 <Swanee> Congrats Abraxas!
06-01-98 17:12:24 <Freiheit> hey Swanee, you ready to discuss REXX? :)
06-01-98 17:12:24 <mandie> boooo
06-01-98 17:12:33 <Projects> heh
06-01-98 17:12:42 <Abraxas> Swanee Thanks
06-01-98 17:12:42 <Projects> sign here_________________
06-01-98 17:12:52 <Swanee> Rexx? What's that? ;)
06-01-98 17:12:53 <Abraxas> Swanee you interested in running for VP?
06-01-98 17:13:16 <Swanee> I can't make out your writing Abraxas :)
06-01-98 17:13:27 <Abraxas> LOL
06-01-98 17:13:28 <Swanee> brb
06-01-98 17:13:53 <Projects> Abraxas: beep it to him (morse code like) :)
06-01-98 17:15:01 * Swanee put a stack of cd's on the edge of the desk and Abraxas scared me so bad I knocked them to the floor...
06-01-98 17:15:19 <Freiheit> uh huh
06-01-98 17:15:20 <Freiheit> :)
06-01-98 17:15:52 * Projects sneaks up behind Swanee... "BOO!"
06-01-98 17:15:54 <Freiheit> there's a lesson to be learned here
06-01-98 17:16:05 <Freiheit> I'm not sure what it is... :)
06-01-98 17:16:15 <Swanee> Hey, great idea... giving away a nite's stay at warpstock!
06-01-98 17:16:19 <Abraxas> Don't stack CDs close to the edge?
06-01-98 17:16:26 <Projects> heh
06-01-98 17:16:49 <Abraxas> Swanee thanks
06-01-98 17:17:06 <Swanee> You're certainly welcome Abraxas
06-01-98 17:17:11 <Freiheit> Dan, your last name is Casyu ?
06-01-98 17:17:20 <Abraxas> Casey
06-01-98 17:17:23 <Projects> hehehe... I wondered that myself :)
06-01-98 17:17:34 <Freiheit> hmm, not according to the reservation you forwarded to the admin list
06-01-98 17:17:34 <Abraxas> where does THAT come from?
06-01-98 17:17:46 * Swanee hopes Abraxas doesn't shame us with more than 2 or 3 scandals this year...
06-01-98 17:17:48 <Abraxas> fat fingers
06-01-98 17:17:58 <Projects> Abraxas: the message you forwarded me last night that I reforwarded to the admin list...
06-01-98 17:18:12 <Abraxas> SPAM control (hehehe)
06-01-98 17:18:17 <Projects> hehehe
06-01-98 17:18:48 <MADodel> Adaptec's stock is down to $14.56. I thought I had a bargain at $23. It's killing me. You guys have to go all SCSI.
06-01-98 17:19:06 <Freiheit> they may have a slight problem verifying your credit card purchase
06-01-98 17:19:13 <Abraxas> ALL the techno stocks tooka hit today
06-01-98 17:19:25 <MADodel> Yeah IBM is down also
06-01-98 17:19:47 <Abraxas> NASDAQ was down 30 some points, last I heard (major techno trading)
06-01-98 17:19:49 <Projects> can we sneak in and by majority share in IBM? :)
06-01-98 17:19:55 <Projects> buy too
06-01-98 17:19:57 <Freiheit> heh
06-01-98 17:20:21 <Abraxas> Projects dunno ... how many Billions do we have in the treasury????
06-01-98 17:20:34 <Swanee> Projects: I could afford 6 or 7 shares, how many more do we need? :)
06-01-98 17:21:02 <Projects> Abraxas: heh... billions?
06-01-98 17:21:13 <Projects> Swanee: billions? :)
06-01-98 17:21:18 * Swanee had to pay to get out of the IRS offices thursday... :(
06-01-98 17:21:32 <MADodel> There's something like 500 million outstanding at $114/share, maybe only $4billion
06-01-98 17:21:39 <Freiheit> one nice thing about not having a job--no IRS hassles
06-01-98 17:21:49 <Freiheit> 'course, no money to pay student loans off, either :(
06-01-98 17:21:55 <Swanee> MADodel: I may be a bit short then.
06-01-98 17:22:01 <Abraxas> Swanee better than shooting your way out (which is how you normaly get out of a robbery) :-)
06-01-98 17:22:21 <Swanee> hehe, that's for postal workers. :)
06-01-98 17:22:30 <MADodel> I got a letter from the IRS today. They say Turbo Tax miscalculated my Schedule H, and I get an extra $36 and change.
06-01-98 17:22:44 <Abraxas> kewl
06-01-98 17:22:55 <Swanee> When the prison tailor showed up, I agreed to their terms...
06-01-98 17:23:02 <Abraxas> hehe
06-01-98 17:23:35 <Freiheit> woohoo, we've now got Norway in VOICE
06-01-98 17:23:46 <Freiheit> usa, Canada, Norway, Australia--where else?
06-01-98 17:23:57 <Projects> jamaica
06-01-98 17:24:00 <Freiheit> oh, right
06-01-98 17:24:37 *** Aram (agajan@slip129-37-112-113.pa.us.ibm.net) has joined #VOICE [17:24:37]
06-01-98 17:24:47 <Freiheit> hello Aram
06-01-98 17:24:57 <Swanee> Hi Aram
06-01-98 17:25:00 <Aram> hello Freiheit
06-01-98 17:25:05 <Aram> hello Swanee
06-01-98 17:25:09 <mandie> Aram: welcome
06-01-98 17:25:10 <MADodel> We need some Indians or Pakistanis. We need access to some tactical nuclear devices. Take out Redmond and Armonk.
06-01-98 17:25:18 <MADodel> :-)
06-01-98 17:25:29 <Aram> thanks, mandie
06-01-98 17:25:35 <Swanee> If we can't buy 51% of IBM, is it possible to nose up to Lou or control him through his wife?
06-01-98 17:25:37 <Swanee> :)
06-01-98 17:25:51 <Projects> Swanee: :)
06-01-98 17:25:57 <Aram> did everyone see the article that Merced had slipped to 2000?
06-01-98 17:26:08 <Freiheit> no, where is that?
06-01-98 17:26:09 <Swanee> Missed it...
06-01-98 17:26:12 <Aram> www.news.cmo
06-01-98 17:26:18 <Aram> www.news.com,even
06-01-98 17:26:33 <Aram> that gives IBM even more time to start their port
06-01-98 17:26:55 <Freiheit> so it seems IBM is "suffocating OS/2" by not porting it to a non-existent CPU :)
06-01-98 17:27:06 <Projects> hehehe
06-01-98 17:27:07 <Aram> yup
06-01-98 17:27:17 <Freiheit> only Ziff-Davis could make a claim that silly
06-01-98 17:27:25 <MADodel> I heard 6 months. Did you hear the DOJ is now looking at Intel for an anti-trust investigation?
06-01-98 17:27:37 <Freiheit> MAD, the FTC is
06-01-98 17:27:41 <Freiheit> last I heard
06-01-98 17:27:42 <Swanee> Intel now?
06-01-98 17:27:56 <MADodel> The DOJ has been asked to investigate by the FTC. :-)
06-01-98 17:28:03 <Freiheit> oic
06-01-98 17:28:25 <Abraxas> NEC is now shipping their systems WITHOUT IE (testing MS vs DOJ and MS agreement with Gateway)
06-01-98 17:28:26 <Freiheit> well, I run OS/2 on a Cyrix, so the M$/Intel problems don't concern me one bit :)
06-01-98 17:28:40 * Swanee doesn't know much about Intel's business practices...
06-01-98 17:29:07 * MADodel has to PP200's. :-( Wish Intel would loosen the price on those suckers
06-01-98 17:29:18 <Freiheit> Anyway, do we have any agenda items for today?
06-01-98 17:29:35 <Freiheit> I know we were going to further discuss the nominations/election for a new VP
06-01-98 17:29:35 * Swanee doesn't know much about his own business practices according to the IRS :)
06-01-98 17:29:49 <Freiheit> Swanee, haha
06-01-98 17:31:05 <mandie> Aram: do you use os/2 at home, business or both?
06-01-98 17:31:14 <Abraxas> Swanee like marriage ... whatever is yours is theire :-)
06-01-98 17:31:21 <Aram> I use it at home, mandie. I'm a Unix programmer by trade.
06-01-98 17:31:37 <Aram> wouldn't mind finding a job coding OS/2, tho
06-01-98 17:31:38 <mandie> ah
06-01-98 17:31:39 <Swanee> Abraxas: :) That's what they say!
06-01-98 17:31:48 * Freiheit wouldn't mind finding a job.
06-01-98 17:31:50 <Freiheit> :)
06-01-98 17:32:00 <mandie> aram: have you written or ported any os2 programs?
06-01-98 17:32:00 *** mafia (Uwe@slip139-92-42-81.ut.nl.ibm.net) has joined #VOICE [17:32:00]
06-01-98 17:32:05 <Freiheit> 'lo mafia
06-01-98 17:32:13 <mandie> mafia: Welcome
06-01-98 17:32:17 <Swanee> hi mafia
06-01-98 17:32:26 <Aram> I haven't, mandie. I do have a project in mind, though
06-01-98 17:32:27 * Freiheit could've been a contender (or something)
06-01-98 17:32:52 <mandie> Aram: that's good to hear! We like new applications :)
06-01-98 17:33:22 <Freiheit> I'd like someone to port the Linux WordPerfect 8 to OS/2 :)
06-01-98 17:33:39 <Aram> actually, I have a couple, but to get some credibility I think should complete one first :-)
06-01-98 17:33:50 <Freiheit> Aram, true :)
06-01-98 17:33:53 <mandie> Aram: wise man :)
06-01-98 17:34:17 <Aram> my first project is to write a replacement for view.exe
06-01-98 17:34:28 <Aram> since it seems sort of outdated
06-01-98 17:34:33 * Projects cheers Aram on...
06-01-98 17:34:51 * Freiheit ponders using Mozilla source to write a replacement to view.exe that could then view either .inf or .html files
06-01-98 17:34:54 <Swanee> Aram: With single click hyperlinks?
06-01-98 17:35:01 <Aram> I would like it to be able to cut and paste text to the clipboard
06-01-98 17:35:10 <Freiheit> Aram, ahh YES!
06-01-98 17:35:11 <Swanee> Aram: Amen...
06-01-98 17:35:12 <Abraxas> Aram before we go any further, is this something you'd like to NOT be public ??
06-01-98 17:35:16 <mandie> excellent idea
06-01-98 17:35:46 <mandie> when I want to c&p a .inf file, I use vipf
06-01-98 17:35:47 <Swanee> Aram: This is all logged and posted. :)
06-01-98 17:35:58 <Aram> Abraxas: well, I'm not really thinking about making a profit on _this_ one
06-01-98 17:36:11 <Swanee> mandie: vipf?
06-01-98 17:36:18 <Aram> I'm not sure how much people would by for a view.exe replacement
06-01-98 17:36:24 <Aram> would pay, even
06-01-98 17:36:25 <MADodel> MEsa/2 expired again. I wish they would release the u/g
06-01-98 17:36:26 <mandie> swanee: it let's you open a .inf file in text mode
06-01-98 17:36:29 <Abraxas> Aram just thought I'd ask, as these meetings are loged and the logfile is posted to the website
06-01-98 17:36:33 <Swanee> Aram: Me
06-01-98 17:37:03 <Swanee> mandie: Where might one try it. Is it a shareware app?
06-01-98 17:37:04 <Aram> point well taken, Abraxas
06-01-98 17:37:19 <mandie> swanee: freeware..hobbes
06-01-98 17:37:30 <Aram> actually, a good OS/2 programmer should be able to code one up quickly, I would think
06-01-98 17:37:35 <Swanee> brb :)
06-01-98 17:37:59 <mandie> vipf.zip 40944 1995/01/30 Text-mode .INF-file viewer (not 100% complete)
06-01-98 17:38:25 <Projects> hmm.... I just noticed Britain is also in our membership :)
06-01-98 17:38:35 <Aram> I think the person who coded vipf is the one who released a fairly complete specification for the INF format
06-01-98 17:38:35 <Freiheit> woohoo
06-01-98 17:38:41 <Swanee> Thanks mandie, found it.
06-01-98 17:38:42 <Aram> but I'm not certain of that
06-01-98 17:39:02 <Freiheit> our bounds extend a little farther every day
06-01-98 17:39:50 <Aram> actually, does anyone know how well Object Desktop Professional handles INFs?
06-01-98 17:40:04 <Freiheit> now to target people in Japan, Germany, Russia, and Brazil *shrug*
06-01-98 17:40:06 <Abraxas> Swanee just thought I'd let you know .... the "SE" Enhanced Editor for navigating the Q&A list allows you to read from an illegal directory name, but not write to it :-(
06-01-98 17:40:43 <Swanee> An illegal dir name?
06-01-98 17:40:47 * Abraxas figured that out after editing 857 posts, and losing ALL the saves
06-01-98 17:40:55 <Freiheit> eesh
06-01-98 17:41:02 <Swanee> NO! :(
06-01-98 17:41:02 <Abraxas> dir name "Q&A"
06-01-98 17:41:22 <Abraxas> seems the "&" is illegal in a dir name
06-01-98 17:41:36 <Abraxas> Reads from it just fine, though .... just won't write to it
06-01-98 17:42:05 <Swanee> Abraxas: I had no idea... I'll have to try one like that. Sorry Abraxas :(
06-01-98 17:42:27 <mandie> hmm, I should check also...I did start to edit some of the posts
06-01-98 17:42:40 <Abraxas> Swanee NP .... I should have known better than to run through the whole archive in 1 shot without looking for a SAVED file
06-01-98 17:42:57 <Swanee> I checked right away, "Just in case"
06-01-98 17:43:33 <mandie> I just removed a header from one of the posts and saved...and it's ok
06-01-98 17:43:51 <Swanee> I know how long 850 posts take to do. I split into about 3 sessions.
06-01-98 17:44:22 <Abraxas> Swanee hehe ... I didn't ... I spent a whole day doing it :-( gonna have to start over
06-01-98 17:44:33 *** mafia has left #VOICE [17:44:33]
06-01-98 17:44:34 <Swanee> How many archives are left to do mandie?
06-01-98 17:44:46 <Abraxas> But I did test it with a different dir name, and it works fine
06-01-98 17:45:00 <Swanee> Abraxas: Now I want to hide...
06-01-98 17:45:17 <mandie> there's one from last July and August...I think we should just go with what we have and whatever we collect from here
06-01-98 17:45:20 *** tyu (Unknown@dial-4-198.sti.com.br) has joined #VOICE [17:45:20]
06-01-98 17:45:24 <mandie> here on out :)
06-01-98 17:45:28 <mandie> tyu: hello
06-01-98 17:45:35 <Swanee> hi tyu
06-01-98 17:45:42 <tyu> hello mandie
06-01-98 17:45:47 <Freiheit> hi tyu
06-01-98 17:45:51 <Abraxas> Swanee not your fault ..... I should have remembered not to use "&" in a dir name .... just got too used to HPFS and naming anything I wanted
06-01-98 17:46:09 <Swanee> Abraxas: Was that dir on FAT?
06-01-98 17:46:09 <tyu> hello Freiheit
06-01-98 17:46:35 <Abraxas> fwiw, most of the 857 posts in my archive (Dec97) are either trivial or outdated
06-01-98 17:46:44 <Abraxas> Swanee nope .... HPFS
06-01-98 17:46:58 <Swanee> Ok...
06-01-98 17:47:02 <Abraxas> But I still think the "&" is illegal in a dir or filename
06-01-98 17:47:40 <Swanee> That seems weird that it could read but not write...
06-01-98 17:47:43 <Abraxas> FC/2 should have warned me when I created the directory
06-01-98 17:48:16 <Abraxas> Swanee well, it's the only reason I could come up with for losing all the saves
06-01-98 17:48:38 <Abraxas> didn't write a single one ANYWHERE ... I searched all 5 disk drives
06-01-98 17:48:54 <Abraxas> changing the dir name worked fine, though
06-01-98 17:48:54 <Swanee> Well, I'm going to give it a try.
06-01-98 17:49:02 <mandie> out of 1065 files I ended up with 460 and will have less when I weed back through those
06-01-98 17:50:34 <Swanee> mandie: I kinda' wondered about some of them, but I figured a guy just has to make an executive decision and do it! I had maybe 30% saves.
06-01-98 17:51:01 <mandie> swanee: exactly..if you don't think it's informative..then del :)
06-01-98 17:51:05 *** os2hq (os2hq@user-38lcn2d.dialup.mindspring.com) has joined #VOICE [17:51:05]
06-01-98 17:51:05 *** #VOICE Mode change: +o os2hq by VoiceBot
06-01-98 17:51:09 <Freiheit> hello hq
06-01-98 17:51:10 <os2hq> Howdy, neighbors!
06-01-98 17:51:13 <Swanee> os2hq!
06-01-98 17:51:40 <os2hq> What's cooking??
06-01-98 17:51:55 <os2hq> (besides supper )
06-01-98 17:52:06 <Freiheit> discussing the Q&A lists
06-01-98 17:52:13 <Freiheit> and EEse
06-01-98 17:52:14 <Swanee> os2hq: I was just wondering when I saw you last, it's been a while...
06-01-98 17:53:03 <os2hq> Swanee: Well, been pretty busy.
06-01-98 17:53:03 <Swanee> mandie: How are you going to deal with all those that are saved. Can you farm any of that work out?
06-01-98 17:53:06 <os2hq> EE?
06-01-98 17:53:25 <os2hq> Electrical Engineering???
06-01-98 17:53:42 <Swanee> os2hq: Sounds good to me. :)
06-01-98 17:53:46 <mandie> swanee: I'm waiting for Seth to come up with a different format for the page so that it will be easier to *fill in the blanks* and can be accomplished by more than one person
06-01-98 17:53:58 <Freiheit> ooh, XPMFB Beta 2 Released (X Server for OS/2 PM)
06-01-98 17:54:08 <Freiheit> and it's free
06-01-98 17:54:11 <Swanee> OK, let me know when you need a hand.
06-01-98 17:54:21 <mandie> Swanee: right now, the html code is pretty intense and would require alot of time to maintained and would actually need to be maintained by only one person
06-01-98 17:54:28 <mandie> Swanee: oh, I sure will :)
06-01-98 17:54:30 * Freiheit might be interested--could make use of Warpscape sooner :)
06-01-98 17:55:31 * os2hq is planning to do some testing of Apps file formats.... it's the latest leverage wave :*(
06-01-98 17:55:56 <mandie> os2hq: what do you mean?
06-01-98 17:56:13 <Swanee> os2hq: Yeah, what mandie says. :)
06-01-98 17:56:16 <mandie> what type of test for file formats?
06-01-98 17:56:22 <Freiheit> os2hq, I want you to 'splain to us
06-01-98 17:56:35 <Aram> Freiheit: News&Rumours says that xpmfb uses XFree 3.1... I wonder if 3.3.2 works ok
06-01-98 17:56:39 <Freiheit> oh wait, this isn't an I Love Lucy convention
06-01-98 17:56:40 <mandie> and I thought I was the only one that didn't understand :)
06-01-98 17:57:15 <Freiheit> Aram, is 3.1 very old? I'm not too familiar with XFree86
06-01-98 17:57:18 <os2hq> Oh, sorry....
06-01-98 17:57:35 <os2hq> Well, sharing data files among offices, even over the Web,
06-01-98 17:57:38 <os2hq> requires compatibility.
06-01-98 17:57:43 <Aram> not sure Freiheit... I installed 3.3.2 a couple of months ago
06-01-98 17:57:47 * Swanee thought os2hq was typing an explanation this whole time.
06-01-98 17:57:50 <Freiheit> woohoo, there's my (edited) VOICE announcement on News & Rumours
06-01-98 17:57:51 <os2hq> With ASCII or even HTML, this is straightforward.
06-01-98 17:57:56 <mandie> me too!! hhehee
06-01-98 17:58:01 <os2hq> cool!!!
06-01-98 17:58:14 <Freiheit> os2hq, or RTF
06-01-98 17:58:29 <mandie> os2hq: you went through this in the possi mailng list...correct?
06-01-98 17:58:33 <os2hq> Anyway, as people begin using Word or whatever, as if it was a "standard interchange format", the trouble begins.
06-01-98 17:58:46 <os2hq> Mandie: Partially, yes.
06-01-98 17:58:56 <mandie> I recalled seeing it before
06-01-98 17:59:14 <os2hq> Anyway, the key is, what MS uses as leverage to prevent competition is not always the same thing each cycle.
06-01-98 17:59:25 <os2hq> First it was boot sectors.... 1990-1994.
06-01-98 17:59:36 <os2hq> Then it was APIs, .... 1995-1997.
06-01-98 17:59:46 <os2hq> Now it's file formats, .... 1997-2000.
06-01-98 17:59:51 <os2hq> Then maybe fonts.....?
06-01-98 18:00:07 <Freiheit> no, then maybe the entire internet
06-01-98 18:00:12 <os2hq> Heh.
06-01-98 18:00:24 * os2hq imagines that DOJ will arrive 3 years late *AGAIN*
06-01-98 18:00:29 <mandie> Swanne: are you prepared for the REXX speakup at our next meeting? :)
06-01-98 18:00:43 <Aram> os2hq: one would think that competitors could issue patches for whatever new file formats pretty quickly
06-01-98 18:00:45 <os2hq> DOJ will prevent boot sector and API shenanigans.... but will let them have their way on file formats and fonts.
06-01-98 18:00:51 <Swanee> :) Not totally but slowly getting in gear...
06-01-98 18:00:57 <mandie> :)
06-01-98 18:01:01 <os2hq> Aram: It's the undocumented stuff that stinks.
06-01-98 18:01:30 <Aram> os2hq: true, but what's documented anyway? :-)
06-01-98 18:01:43 <Projects> phew! Been working here :)
06-01-98 18:01:56 <os2hq> lol.
06-01-98 18:02:09 <MADodel> Freiheit: Didn't Bill Gates invent the internet?
06-01-98 18:02:49 <Swanee> MADodel: No, he invented the telephone and developed the internet around it.
06-01-98 18:02:53 <Projects> bill gates wan't even interested in the internet until he found he could hose way more people through it :p
06-01-98 18:03:20 <Abraxas> Speaking of BG and the Internet, anyone get that book "Barbarians Led by Bil Gates"?
06-01-98 18:03:47 <Freiheit> nope
06-01-98 18:03:53 <os2hq> Not yet....
06-01-98 18:03:59 <Swanee> Abraxas: I would have a hard time buying a book about BG. :)
06-01-98 18:04:07 <os2hq> I hope it's a huge seller, sparking interest in what I'm pushing.
06-01-98 18:04:11 <Abraxas> Blow by Blow description of how and when Billy Boy dropped the ball on the Internet
06-01-98 18:04:15 <os2hq> ugh!
06-01-98 18:04:41 <os2hq> That provides a textbook example of how monopoly leverage prevented him from paying an economic price.
06-01-98 18:04:43 <Abraxas> you can't fight the enemy if you don't know the enemy :-)
06-01-98 18:04:59 <os2hq> The "free market" couldn't deal him an appropriate penalty for his stupidity, the way it could everyone else.
06-01-98 18:05:16 <os2hq> The number one enemy of OS/2 is not MS, and not IBM.
06-01-98 18:05:20 <os2hq> It's *ignorance*.
06-01-98 18:05:30 <os2hq> I've never met an ignorant OS/2 user.
06-01-98 18:05:37 <MADodel> os2hq: wromg, it's IBM
06-01-98 18:05:42 * Projects has...
06-01-98 18:05:43 <MADodel> wrong even
06-01-98 18:05:49 <Swanee> os2hq: My wife says differently... :)
06-01-98 18:05:51 <mandie> Projects: me too!
06-01-98 18:06:01 <os2hq> Nope, IBM has to fight ignorance, as well as its own slowness and narrow focus.
06-01-98 18:06:11 <Projects> mandie: just proves, there's stupid people on all os's :)
06-01-98 18:06:25 <MADodel> IBM needs a slap up side the head
06-01-98 18:06:27 <mandie> projects: DUH :)
06-01-98 18:06:36 <Freiheit> Okay, so...
06-01-98 18:06:38 <os2hq> OS/2 is like Caltech, Windows is like Clemson.
06-01-98 18:06:41 <Projects> hehehe
06-01-98 18:06:45 <os2hq> Speaking as a person who went to both schools.
06-01-98 18:07:04 <Freiheit> do we have any other people for the June 15 REXX SpeakUp?
06-01-98 18:07:05 * Projects never went to the school of Gates... bypassed it entirely
06-01-98 18:07:07 <os2hq> The main difference is, while the tops were about the same, the bottoms didn't exist at CIT.
06-01-98 18:07:13 <Freiheit> is it still just Dirk, Swanee, and Deek?
06-01-98 18:07:24 <mandie> Freiheit: not other than the ones that you listed in the announcement
06-01-98 18:07:29 <Freiheit> okay
06-01-98 18:07:50 <Freiheit> well, any more than 3 speakers would be a riot in a 2 hour chat anyway
06-01-98 18:08:04 <Swanee> Freiheit: I think Dirk should be able to carry us quite well :)
06-01-98 18:08:12 <Freiheit> yeah yeah Swanee
06-01-98 18:08:14 <mandie> I did want Mike Cowlishaw...but he just was too busy :(
06-01-98 18:08:22 <Freiheit> like I said, I'll specifically direct questions to you :)
06-01-98 18:08:31 <Swanee> mandie: He would have been great!
06-01-98 18:08:32 <Abraxas> Freiheit ought to be a fun one to moderate :-)
06-01-98 18:08:36 <Projects> Freiheit: we could forgo the moderators, and have everyone /msg their questions directly :)
06-01-98 18:08:45 <mandie> Swanee: I know..he had prior committments :(
06-01-98 18:09:12 <Swanee> mandie: Darnit anyway, huh?
06-01-98 18:09:27 <mandie> yep...but you and the others will do just fine :)
06-01-98 18:09:42 <os2hq> If Cowlishaw is busy, that's a good sign.
06-01-98 18:10:00 <Swanee> mandie: hehe, as long as I don't keep Dirk busy with MY questions. :)
06-01-98 18:10:11 <Projects> hehehehe
06-01-98 18:10:15 <os2hq> Okay, did we get any noms yet for VP?
06-01-98 18:10:28 <Abraxas> nope
06-01-98 18:10:35 <mandie> I had considered asking Dick Goran also...but from his book that I got..he's basically very advanced
06-01-98 18:10:44 <mandie> Swanee: hehe
06-01-98 18:10:56 <mandie> os2hq: did you make any?
06-01-98 18:11:04 <Projects> mandie: could be a good thing though... some people might want advanced answers...
06-01-98 18:11:12 <Abraxas> mandie what about Bill Schindler?
06-01-98 18:11:21 *** logos (logos@as001-5248-vt067.indianapolis.in.compuserve.net) has joined #VOICE [18:11:21]
06-01-98 18:11:29 <Swanee> Hi logos
06-01-98 18:11:31 <mandie> Abraxas: actually..he never responded to my request
06-01-98 18:11:32 <logos> hey
06-01-98 18:11:43 <Freiheit> hello logos
06-01-98 18:11:45 <Abraxas> logos Indianapolis?????
06-01-98 18:11:50 <logos> yup
06-01-98 18:12:02 <Abraxas> logos whereabouts?
06-01-98 18:12:08 <logos> Carmel
06-01-98 18:12:12 <logos> you?
06-01-98 18:12:16 * Abraxas is lifelong Southsider
06-01-98 18:12:22 <Abraxas> Almost in Greenwood
06-01-98 18:12:31 <logos> ahh
06-01-98 18:12:35 <logos> Greenwood is nice
06-01-98 18:12:43 <Abraxas> so is Carmel
06-01-98 18:13:13 <Abraxas> logos anyway, Welcome to VOICE
06-01-98 18:13:16 <os2hq> Mandie: nope.
06-01-98 18:13:19 <Freiheit> Southside? like PMMail?
06-01-98 18:13:19 <logos> thanks
06-01-98 18:13:20 <Freiheit> :)
06-01-98 18:13:22 <os2hq> Hmmm.... dunno.
06-01-98 18:13:31 <os2hq> Welcome, logos.
06-01-98 18:13:43 <os2hq> Say, any *geographical* OS/2 user groups in your area???
06-01-98 18:13:50 <os2hq> (YET?)
06-01-98 18:13:51 <os2hq>
06-01-98 18:13:57 <Abraxas> os2hq in Indy??
06-01-98 18:14:10 <mandie> I have a question not even related to os2 :)
06-01-98 18:14:32 <Abraxas> mandie shoot
06-01-98 18:14:32 <os2hq> Abraxas: right.
06-01-98 18:14:41 <mandie> when you use a credit card...is the company that processes the transaction charged a fee by the CC company?
06-01-98 18:14:51 <Abraxas> os2hq not for over a year, that I know of
06-01-98 18:14:55 <os2hq> Hmmm....
06-01-98 18:14:59 <Abraxas> mandie yep
06-01-98 18:15:05 <os2hq> WIde open opportunity then.
06-01-98 18:15:11 <Swanee> Yes, 4% or less depending on their bank deal.
06-01-98 18:15:20 <mandie> ah, ok
06-01-98 18:15:27 <Abraxas> 2.5-7.5% depending on the bank and the method
06-01-98 18:15:33 <logos> mandie that is why some stores wont cary Amex and others
06-01-98 18:15:47 <mandie> logos: fee too high on those I guess
06-01-98 18:15:53 <logos> I have an OS/2 question.
06-01-98 18:16:01 <mandie> ask away :)
06-01-98 18:16:02 <Abraxas> logos shoot
06-01-98 18:16:03 <MADodel> We could start the OS/2 VOICE Charge Card :-)
06-01-98 18:16:10 <Freiheit> heheh
06-01-98 18:16:22 <os2hq> MAD: Yes I've been thinking about that....
06-01-98 18:16:26 <os2hq> VOICE VISA?
06-01-98 18:16:27 <mandie> mad: we should just get our own bank and be done with it!
06-01-98 18:16:28 <Projects> heh
06-01-98 18:16:33 <os2hq> VISA is pro-MS, though.
06-01-98 18:16:40 <Projects> Bank of Voice?
06-01-98 18:16:47 <logos> Is it possible to install Warp4 in the primary partition without installing over 95?
06-01-98 18:16:50 <os2hq> Mandie: Well, at least we'd have OS/2 software if we owned a bank!!!!
06-01-98 18:16:59 <os2hq> Logos: YES!!!
06-01-98 18:17:08 <Abraxas> logos you mean using "Dual Boot"?
06-01-98 18:17:13 <Projects> logos: only real problem is that warp will think win95 is win3.1 and try to install support for it
06-01-98 18:17:18 <os2hq> That's straightforward. OS/2 can run by itself in ANY partition.
06-01-98 18:17:46 <os2hq> You simply HIDE all the Windoze stuff.
06-01-98 18:17:47 <Swanee> logos: But tough to keep organized in a dual boot situation with 95 I would guess...
06-01-98 18:17:49 <logos> I have had past problems installing Warp4 becuase of my HD's size.
06-01-98 18:18:03 <Abraxas> logos you just have to be careful about installing the WinOS2 support ... OS/2 won't "do" win95 apps
06-01-98 18:18:05 <mandie> logos: what size it it?
06-01-98 18:18:10 <os2hq> HIDE with attrib +h C:\WINDOWS\*.* /e /s
06-01-98 18:18:18 <logos> 8.4 and 4.3gig
06-01-98 18:18:22 <os2hq> after installation just unhide it.
06-01-98 18:18:25 <os2hq> Heh.
06-01-98 18:18:29 <Freiheit> and you have a problem getting Warp 4 onto that?!
06-01-98 18:18:34 <Abraxas> logos you get the new IDE drivers?
06-01-98 18:18:35 <MADodel> logos: IDE?
06-01-98 18:18:37 * Freiheit faints
06-01-98 18:18:38 <os2hq> Hmmmmm.....
06-01-98 18:18:42 <mandie> logos: have you got the latest drivers that support those sizes?
06-01-98 18:18:44 <mandie> http://service.software.ibm.com/os2ddpak/html/30ABBBF6ABD9D85F86256598006908FA.html
06-01-98 18:18:46 <Swanee> Freiheit: lol
06-01-98 18:18:50 <os2hq> Well, supper's on.... later!
06-01-98 18:18:53 <Freiheit> later hq
06-01-98 18:19:01 <os2hq> Oops, false alarm!
06-01-98 18:19:01 <logos> i tried the patch last night, i would only let me install onto the C: drive...
06-01-98 18:19:04 <Swanee> see you later os2hq
06-01-98 18:19:11 <os2hq> Still here....
06-01-98 18:19:13 <os2hq> heh.
06-01-98 18:19:24 <mandie> logos: what patch?...the latest drivers?
06-01-98 18:19:26 <Swanee> Hi again FalseAlarmHQ
06-01-98 18:19:29 <os2hq> heh.
06-01-98 18:19:30 <logos> yes
06-01-98 18:19:37 <Abraxas> logos you need to have Boot Mamanger installed to install OS/2 to a drive other than C:
06-01-98 18:19:38 <Freiheit> logos, in order to install OS/2 to a second partition or drive, you need to install Boot Manager first--did you do that? (in OS/2's FDISK)
06-01-98 18:19:50 <os2hq> Abraxas: No, not necessarily.
06-01-98 18:19:51 <mandie> logos: you have 2 primaries on one hd...C: win95 and C: os2?
06-01-98 18:20:10 <os2hq> You use the FDISK to make primaries, or primaries plus logicals....
06-01-98 18:20:20 <os2hq> But ANY partition can boot OS/2, with or without a boot manager.
06-01-98 18:20:21 <Abraxas> logos you "could" use Power Boot ..... installs into the MBR of the first drive (doesn't rewuire a partition like Boot Manager does)
06-01-98 18:20:31 <os2hq> You simply use FDISK to make the OS/2 partition "active"
06-01-98 18:20:33 <logos> i have one primary, but the Fdisk program will not do anything but delete and create partitions
06-01-98 18:20:42 <os2hq> Logos: I see now.
06-01-98 18:20:48 <os2hq> The problem is with FDISK.
06-01-98 18:20:51 <MADodel> logos: get Partition Magic then
06-01-98 18:20:54 <os2hq> FDISK can't work right with huge drives.
06-01-98 18:21:07 <Abraxas> os2hq it can if you have the drivers!
06-01-98 18:21:09 <mandie> I didn't have a problem on a 5.1g hd
06-01-98 18:21:14 <os2hq> You can use DriveImage, install on a small drive, then copy it over.
06-01-98 18:21:18 <mandie> correct abraxas
06-01-98 18:21:24 <os2hq> Abraxas: it should.
06-01-98 18:21:28 <mandie> logos: would you be up to reinstalling win95?
06-01-98 18:22:08 <logos> well, i thought about dumping 95. going with NT4 as a backup for 95 programs and migrate to OS/2
06-01-98 18:22:20 <os2hq> DriveImage is way cool.... If I had that, I would have written an OS/2 "stack" for sure, back a couple of years ago.
06-01-98 18:22:22 <os2hq> I might still do it.
06-01-98 18:22:31 <os2hq> Logos: GO 4 it!!
06-01-98 18:22:44 <mandie> logos: the setup you have now with only 1 primary partition that you have win95 installed on....will not allow you to install os/2 on the same primary partition
06-01-98 18:23:01 <logos> i still have stuff that my wife uses. i have setup a lan in my house... so she can run 95 on her machine
06-01-98 18:23:06 <os2hq> Mandie: Don't be too sure about that....
06-01-98 18:23:09 <mandie> logos: you would need to create another primary partition in order to install os2
06-01-98 18:23:17 <os2hq> You can hide the whole thing, I believe.
06-01-98 18:23:26 <os2hq> Yes, Mandie's got the better way.
06-01-98 18:23:30 <Aram> got to go. Thanks for the encouragement...
06-01-98 18:23:33 *** Signoff: Aram (Leaving) [18:23:33]
06-01-98 18:23:34 <MADodel> Format C: /L
06-01-98 18:23:37 <mandie> os2hq: if he creates another primary...one will be hidden
06-01-98 18:23:41 <os2hq> Use Partition Magic.
06-01-98 18:23:49 <os2hq> Mandie: Yep, two C's, mutually exclusive.
06-01-98 18:23:55 <os2hq> It's the "easy" way to avoid hassles.
06-01-98 18:24:03 <MADodel> Gee, I think someone else suggested tha ta while back
06-01-98 18:24:12 <Freiheit> :)
06-01-98 18:24:12 <os2hq> PMagic can free up the space.
06-01-98 18:24:15 <os2hq> Heh.
06-01-98 18:24:22 <mandie> I would opt for creating a primary on the 2hd and installing os2 there
06-01-98 18:24:26 <mandie> if at all possible
06-01-98 18:24:49 <MADodel> Then he still has to put BM on the 1st HD
06-01-98 18:24:53 <logos> do you think Partition It (from quarterdeck) does the same as Partition Magic?
06-01-98 18:24:58 <Abraxas> should use at least 300meg for OS/2 partition (OS stuff ONLY)
06-01-98 18:25:00 * os2hq uses C: primary DOS, D: HPFS logical, storage, E: HPFS, logical, OS/2 OS all the time.
06-01-98 18:25:00 <mandie> mad: right
06-01-98 18:25:21 <os2hq> logos: Nope, Qdeck doesn't support OS/2 well.
06-01-98 18:25:25 <MADodel> logos: from what I here it's not as sophisticated as PM
06-01-98 18:25:26 <os2hq> PMagic is tops.
06-01-98 18:25:36 * Freiheit isn't sure if Partition It can handle OS/2's HPFS format (but you may not need to worry about it--that's up to you to decide)
06-01-98 18:25:37 <Abraxas> BM has to be at the FRONT of the 1st hard drive
06-01-98 18:25:50 <os2hq> You can get a User Group Discount and get PMagic, DriveCopy, and DriveImage for a total of under $100.
06-01-98 18:25:52 <Projects> or at the back of it...
06-01-98 18:25:55 <Freiheit> plus Partition Magic actually has OS/2 executables
06-01-98 18:26:05 <os2hq> Abraxas: No, I've had BM on the back end of drives too.
06-01-98 18:26:22 <Freiheit> BM merely needs to be within the first 1024 cylinders (as always)
06-01-98 18:26:24 <Abraxas> os2hq on a BIG drive?
06-01-98 18:26:28 <os2hq> Abraxas: Hmmmm....
06-01-98 18:26:29 <Projects> it either has to be at the beginning, or the end of free space
06-01-98 18:26:30 <MADodel> Actually at the front or back of any freespace on the drive.
06-01-98 18:26:35 * os2hq hasn't HAD any big drives!!!
06-01-98 18:26:47 <logos> this bootmanager, can it be replaced by Select It (also by quarterdeck)
06-01-98 18:26:48 <os2hq> Guess that depends on drivers, maybe.
06-01-98 18:26:57 <os2hq> Dunno.
06-01-98 18:27:18 <Freiheit> logos, once OS/2 is installed, Boot Manager can be replaced by most anything (kBootManager, Docs Boot+, System Commander)
06-01-98 18:27:21 <MADodel> logos: no idea, never heard of Select It. Does it support OS/2?
06-01-98 18:27:40 <logos> i use select-it to run NT and 95
06-01-98 18:27:41 <Freiheit> but OS/2 requires Boot Manager during installation so that it is ensured of being able to reboot the system when needed
06-01-98 18:27:57 <logos> ic
06-01-98 18:28:01 * os2hq used to pal around with the Qdeck crowd.... talk about blown opportunities!!!
06-01-98 18:28:05 <Abraxas> Freiheit Power Boot will do the same thing, and doesn't rewuire a partition
06-01-98 18:28:33 <Freiheit> Abraxas, right, that's another one (but OS/2 still needs Boot Manager during installation)
06-01-98 18:28:33 * MADodel uses Power Boot
06-01-98 18:28:39 <Abraxas> os2hq yep QDeck could have BEEN somebody, had they supported OS/2 :-)
06-01-98 18:28:44 <os2hq> lol!
06-01-98 18:28:55 <logos> lol
06-01-98 18:28:57 <os2hq> We shall see what "develops"......
06-01-98 18:29:01 <MADodel> Only if OS/2 is not on a primary partition on the first HD.
06-01-98 18:29:07 * Freiheit can't imagine a Quarterdeck memory manager for OS/2, sorry
06-01-98 18:29:16 <os2hq> At $1.50 a share, maybe we should just BUY Quarterdeck.
06-01-98 18:29:19 <Freiheit> MAD, right (thanks for the correction)
06-01-98 18:29:25 <os2hq> Frei: Sure, for WinOS2.
06-01-98 18:29:31 <Abraxas> Freiheit no, it doesn't .... it just needs the OS/2 partition to be the ACTIVE partition, and using PBOOT to "HIDE" all other partitions insures this
06-01-98 18:29:45 <Projects> QEMM (I think it's QEMM) runs fine under OS/2 in a dos vdm
06-01-98 18:29:54 <os2hq> Proj: I didn't know that.
06-01-98 18:29:55 <Abraxas> Projects WHY????
06-01-98 18:30:10 <Projects> os2hq: I was surprised too
06-01-98 18:30:16 <MADodel> But why? OS/2 gives VDM's all the virtual memory they need
06-01-98 18:30:23 <os2hq> I'll bet Quarterdeck was even MORE surprised
06-01-98 18:30:30 <Abraxas> DOS VDM SESSION_SETTINGS can do a lot more in the way of allocating memory to a DOS session tha any mem manager
06-01-98 18:30:35 <Projects> Abraxas: someone experimented with it a couple years back (FidoNet)... I was kinda surprised
06-01-98 18:30:40 <logos> Would it be possible to install Warp4 on c: primary and then install 95 on another partition, without winblows freaking out?
06-01-98 18:30:56 <Projects> Abraxas: I know... the guy just wanted to see if it would work... and it did
06-01-98 18:30:57 <Abraxas> logos nope .... Win95 needs to be on Pri C:
06-01-98 18:30:58 <os2hq> logos: Nope, only if W95 is on a PRIMARY.
06-01-98 18:31:06 <os2hq> Abraxas: Or D:
06-01-98 18:31:14 * MADodel has OS/2 on a primary and NT 4.0 on another
06-01-98 18:31:14 <os2hq> I know, I spent the ENTIRE DAY at work on that!!!
06-01-98 18:31:43 <os2hq> Some idiot's idea of an "upgrade" was to fill a 200 MB drive with DOS/Windoze3.1
06-01-98 18:31:52 <os2hq> and add a second H/D 245 MB just for Windoze95!!!!
06-01-98 18:31:53 <Abraxas> Actually, the DOS boot files for Win95 need to be on Pri C: .... Win95 can be anywhere (but only if you install from the "upgrade" version, and already have Win 3.1x installed elsewhere
06-01-98 18:32:20 <Abraxas> DOS only boots from Pri C:
06-01-98 18:32:25 * os2hq knows how to install Windoze95 non-upgrade version on top of Windoze95 ....HHEHHHHHEHEHEH
06-01-98 18:32:34 <Abraxas> And WIn95 STILL needs DOS boot
06-01-98 18:32:38 <logos> lol
06-01-98 18:32:42 <os2hq> Abraxas: true.
06-01-98 18:32:54 <os2hq> The key is this: MS always tests for one file: WIN.COM
06-01-98 18:32:59 <os2hq> Just rename it to Win.sav.
06-01-98 18:33:42 <os2hq> If you have Win.com, it says "You already have an operating system on this drive!!"
06-01-98 18:33:45 <os2hq> Liar!
06-01-98 18:33:57 <os2hq> Well, supper's on at last... bye all!
06-01-98 18:34:01 <mandie> consider the source!
06-01-98 18:34:06 *** os2hq has left #VOICE [18:34:06]
06-01-98 18:34:06 <Swanee> bye os2hq
06-01-98 18:34:08 <Abraxas> hehe
06-01-98 18:34:26 <Projects> os2hq needs to learn how to multitask...
06-01-98 18:34:28 *** Bluegrass (wjdelong@slip-32-100-18-188.ky.us.ibm.net) has joined #VOICE [18:34:28]
06-01-98 18:34:30 *** BKK (~root@141.236.12.200) has joined #VOICE [18:34:30]
06-01-98 18:34:33 * Freiheit will be back in just about 3 minutes
06-01-98 18:34:37 <mandie> bluegrass!!! hi :)
06-01-98 18:34:39 <Freiheit> hi new people
06-01-98 18:34:45 <Swanee> hi BKK & Bluegrass
06-01-98 18:34:47 <BKK> Hi
06-01-98 18:34:52 <mandie> hello BKK
06-01-98 18:35:03 <Bluegrass> Hi, y'all.
06-01-98 18:35:16 <Abraxas> logos best way to do it is STILL to re-FDISK the drive, instal Boot Manager (at the beginning of the freespace) and create Pri partitions for Win95 (WinNT) and OS/2
06-01-98 18:35:40 <Abraxas> Save you a LOT of headaches in the long run
06-01-98 18:35:58 <MADodel> And install BootMAnager
06-01-98 18:36:05 <logos> ok
06-01-98 18:36:22 <Abraxas> MADodel didn't I say that? :-)
06-01-98 18:36:32 <mandie> logos: word of warning....if you install os2 first..win95 will disable bootmanger
06-01-98 18:36:36 <MADodel> Oh missed it. :-P
06-01-98 18:36:43 <mandie> logos: so you need to fdisk and make it startable again
06-01-98 18:36:50 * Swanee is going to get the Chocolate chip cookies his wife made for him before leaving town... and maybe a milk. brb
06-01-98 18:36:53 <logos> I do have to say, NT hates my Sparq drive. At least OS/2 doesnt
06-01-98 18:37:15 <Projects> NT hates me here...
06-01-98 18:37:18 *** CTCP PING (mandie) (#voice)
06-01-98 18:37:26 <Abraxas> logos yeah ... hehe ... New Technology :-;
06-01-98 18:37:42 <logos> some people say, Nice Try
06-01-98 18:38:03 <Projects> some people say Neandrethal Technology
06-01-98 18:38:16 <logos> lol
06-01-98 18:38:18 <mandie> projects: eh :)
06-01-98 18:38:30 <Projects> ask Snafu sometime :)
06-01-98 18:38:38 <MADodel> Nincompoop 4.0
06-01-98 18:39:09 <MADodel> What is the logic in using startup to shutdown?
06-01-98 18:39:16 <Projects> hehehehe
06-01-98 18:39:17 <mandie> for anyone that might have missed our announcement...VOICE now has the position of Vice President open and are looking for nominees :)
06-01-98 18:39:20 <Freiheit> back
06-01-98 18:39:59 <Bluegrass> The option to Shutdown of Reboot is nice.
06-01-98 18:40:07 <Bluegrass> or Reboot
06-01-98 18:40:09 <Freiheit> did I see something about OS/2 and the SparQ?
06-01-98 18:40:29 <MADodel> Bluegrass: XFolder has added a really nice shutdown feature for OS/2
06-01-98 18:41:02 <MADodel> Allows a choice to reboot, and you can skip hung apps during the shutdown
06-01-98 18:41:25 * Projects had something nice for shutdown too, but can't remember what it was...
06-01-98 18:41:31 <Bluegrass> The reboot choice would be nice.
06-01-98 18:41:50 *** Abraxas has left #VOICE [18:41:50]
06-01-98 18:41:50 <Freiheit> MAD, nice, but there's still one shutdown option I've never found...the ability to tell it which Boot Manager entry to reboot the system into automatically
06-01-98 18:41:50 <Projects> Bluegrass: that's what I had here...
06-01-98 18:42:00 *** Abraxas (dcasey@dyn1-tnt2-122.indianapolis.in.ameritech.net) has joined #VOICE [18:42:00]
06-01-98 18:42:01 *** #VOICE Mode change: +o Abraxas by AbraxBot
06-01-98 18:42:02 <Freiheit> sorry, reboot option, not shutdown
06-01-98 18:42:29 <logos> I've spent many of nights waiting and waiting to reboot in Windows, waiting for it to do its business
06-01-98 18:42:29 <MADodel> Freiheit actually OS/2 has that option. Setboot I thinl, let me look
06-01-98 18:42:31 <Freiheit> it would reboot the system and auto-select the BM entry of your choice--so you could Reboot | Linux, or Reboot | BeOS
06-01-98 18:42:40 * Abraxas uses PC .... has the rebot option
06-01-98 18:42:46 <Abraxas> reboot, even
06-01-98 18:43:07 <Projects> That's it!
06-01-98 18:43:38 <Projects> Abraxas: a 'fast shutdown' option too? (or something like that)
06-01-98 18:43:46 <Abraxas> Projects yep
06-01-98 18:43:55 <Abraxas> "Quick Shutdown"
06-01-98 18:44:15 <Projects> Abraxas: that's what it was then... I knew I had that at one point, but the name of the software escaped me
06-01-98 18:44:43 <logos> Well, thanks for the help everyone. I have to let my wife make some phone calls. I will probably sign on later tonight.
06-01-98 18:44:46 * Projects uninstalled PC in a debugging fit one day, and forgot to reinstall it
06-01-98 18:45:04 <Freiheit> later logos
06-01-98 18:45:09 <Abraxas> Projects yep ... the much maligned "Process Commander" .... PITA to have to uninstall it to do Fixpak installs, though :-)
06-01-98 18:45:22 *** Signoff: logos (The Lust, The Flesh, The Eyes & The Pride of Life) [18:45:22]
06-01-98 18:45:37 <MADodel> Freiheit: Setboot is in the MAy newsletter tips - type HELP SETBOOT
06-01-98 18:45:40 <Projects> Abraxas: don't... you can install the fixpack, then correct the problem afterwards (I did 3 or 4 fp's that way)
06-01-98 18:45:59 <Abraxas> Projects I did too, until tis last one :-(
06-01-98 18:46:00 <MADodel> Allows you to set BM options at a command line
06-01-98 18:46:32 <Projects> Abraxas: ah... I haven't tried PC with a fixpack since fp5 (didn't use it then either)
06-01-98 18:46:43 <Abraxas> Nice to belong to an International User Group, and find someone in your own backyard :-)
06-01-98 18:46:49 * MADodel uses CAD-Commander
06-01-98 18:46:49 <Projects> :)
06-01-98 18:47:03 * Projects has both CAD and PC, but uses neither...
06-01-98 18:47:13 * MADodel just signed on for the OD 2.0 early experience.
06-01-98 18:47:15 <mandie> Projects: same here!!!
06-01-98 18:47:17 <Bluegrass> How does Setboot differ from running Fdisk?
06-01-98 18:47:27 <mandie> Mad: are you using OD Pro?
06-01-98 18:47:28 <Abraxas> I un-installed PC .... and never re-installed it ... the only ap I ever have hang is NS/2, and PC won't kill that one :-)
06-01-98 18:47:35 <MADodel> Setboot is a CLI
06-01-98 18:47:42 <MADodel> mandie: yes
06-01-98 18:47:43 <mandie> abraxas: but pmtree will :)
06-01-98 18:47:50 * Projects has had the same experience as Abraxas
06-01-98 18:47:50 <mandie> mad: how much ram?
06-01-98 18:48:03 <Abraxas> mandie everytime I treid PMTREE, it crashed
06-01-98 18:48:13 <MADodel> 128 Meg on this box and 32 on the new one
06-01-98 18:48:21 <mandie> oh, I've had very good luck with pmtree killing ns/2
06-01-98 18:48:26 <MADodel> PMTree never worked for me either
06-01-98 18:48:41 <Abraxas> mandie I've had good luck with it killing everything BUT NS/2
06-01-98 18:48:43 <Freiheit> I've found a secret (I guess) for PMTree
06-01-98 18:49:06 <mandie> sometimes you have to close and reopen pmtree a couple of times...but 9/10 times..it works
06-01-98 18:49:11 <MADodel> I use XFolder now to shutdown the system and skip NS/2 when it's hung. Get a clean shutdown that way.
06-01-98 18:49:13 <Freiheit> see, you can't hit CTRL-S and CTRL-S and CTRL-S, nor can you just hold CTRL and hit S S S S
06-01-98 18:49:21 <mandie> freiheit: then you'd better whisper in our ear :)
06-01-98 18:49:23 <Freiheit> you have to just hold both down until NS/2 crashes, then let go
06-01-98 18:49:31 <mandie> freiheit: correct
06-01-98 18:49:46 <Projects> MADodel: what's XFolder?
06-01-98 18:49:48 <Freiheit> 'cos I had many problems with PMTree also hanging when I first started using it
06-01-98 18:50:03 <Freiheit> now it usually works fine
06-01-98 18:50:13 <MADodel> Projects: I'm reviewing it for June. It's freeware wps enhansement
06-01-98 18:50:34 <Projects> MADodel: from Codesmith? (xit, xfile)?
06-01-98 18:50:35 * Freiheit was going to review SOCR for June, but--heh
06-01-98 18:50:40 <Freiheit> MAD knows all about that
06-01-98 18:50:40 <MADodel> No
06-01-98 18:50:58 <MADodel> Freiheit: oh well bad suggestion on my part
06-01-98 18:51:09 <Freiheit> no, it was a good idea, just not a finished app
06-01-98 18:51:16 <MADodel> A law student in Germany wrote it.
06-01-98 18:51:25 <Freiheit> it's obvious it "can" work as it did get some letters/words right
06-01-98 18:51:35 <MADodel> 2 or 3
06-01-98 18:51:46 <Freiheit> and it is v0.1
06-01-98 18:51:50 <Freiheit> so... :)
06-01-98 18:52:18 <Freiheit> and the guy who wrote it claims he's got financial backing for it now (that's how I read the statement, anyway)
06-01-98 18:52:30 <Freiheit> so it could get a lot better soon
06-01-98 18:52:41 <Freiheit> maybe I'll review it in November or something
06-01-98 18:53:08 * Freiheit is putting dibs on reviewing PMView 2.0 when it's released :)
06-01-98 18:54:12 <MADodel> XFolder -> http://www2.rz.hu-berlin.de/~h0444vnd/os2_d.htm
06-01-98 18:54:25 <MADodel> Freiheit: the WIN32 version?
06-01-98 18:55:11 <Projects> MADodel: thanks...
06-01-98 18:55:32 <Freiheit> no, the OS/2 version
06-01-98 18:55:43 <Freiheit> I've still not actually seen anything that says they're developing for Win32
06-01-98 18:55:54 <Freiheit> (that I recall, anyway)
06-01-98 18:56:41 * Freiheit would have no way to review a Win32 program anyway
06-01-98 18:57:01 * Projects does... trash can's right at my feet
06-01-98 18:57:47 <Freiheit> hmm, where's the Benefits of Membership page on our website?
06-01-98 18:57:50 <Abraxas> mandie did you ever contact Brad about his offer to Active user Groups?
06-01-98 18:58:15 <MADodel> fREIHEIT: i THINK YOU JUST VOLUNTEERED TO WRITE IT
06-01-98 18:58:20 <Projects> Freiheit: we don't have one yet...
06-01-98 18:58:25 <MADodel> Damn caps lock
06-01-98 18:58:25 <Freiheit> nope, that's Seth's position :)
06-01-98 18:58:33 <mandie> Abraxas: no, I'll see him Thurs night
06-01-98 18:58:38 <Abraxas> mandie k
06-01-98 18:58:57 <Freiheit> I only code HTML for my site and for my ISP (a Connecting to TST On Ramp Using OS/2 guide)
06-01-98 18:59:03 <Freiheit> :)
06-01-98 18:59:33 <MADodel> But you are the secretary, responsible for all official correspondence are you not?
06-01-98 18:59:47 <Freiheit> yes, so I'll officially correspond with Seth to get it done *lol*
06-01-98 18:59:56 <Abraxas> Anyone have any ideas on how we're going to giveaway the Warpstock package deal?
06-01-98 18:59:57 <MADodel> hehehe
06-01-98 19:00:10 <Freiheit> I take care of announcing it in the mail lists, the newsgroups, and various sites on the web
06-01-98 19:00:14 <MADodel> mandie: ya gonna hit Brad up for some discounts as well?
06-01-98 19:00:30 <Freiheit> Abraxas, trivia question?
06-01-98 19:00:33 <mandie> Abraxas: I think email should be sent out to all members and ask who would be interested..and that's what we'll draw from
06-01-98 19:00:48 <mandie> Mad: I sure will :)
06-01-98 19:00:59 <Swanee> Abraxas: How about alphabetically. Starting with the S's. :)
06-01-98 19:01:06 <Freiheit> heh
06-01-98 19:01:20 <Abraxas> Swanee can you whip up a "Random" picker .... if we input the users ID Number?
06-01-98 19:01:27 <mandie> I don't feel that they should need to be present to win
06-01-98 19:01:41 <Swanee> Shouldn't be too hard.
06-01-98 19:01:48 <Freiheit> hmm, Swanee wants the pass and you're asking him to create a "random" picker? :)
06-01-98 19:01:50 <mandie> and I think ONLY those that are interested should be put *in the hat*
06-01-98 19:01:58 <Freiheit> mandie, obviously
06-01-98 19:02:20 <Abraxas> Freiheit well, you wann do it?
06-01-98 19:02:26 <Swanee> Freiheit: Do you think my num would come up more than 8 times out of ten? :)
06-01-98 19:02:37 <Freiheit> I could write it in QBasic and maybe in JavaScript :)
06-01-98 19:02:38 <mandie> then we need to send out email like tomorrow..there's a possibility that we may have a speakup with warpstock earlier than 6/29
06-01-98 19:03:03 <MADodel> Freiheit: How about VBA?
06-01-98 19:03:14 <Freiheit> if I had VBA I might know if I could
06-01-98 19:03:24 <Abraxas> man don't you think we need to see if new members will join before we e-mail the members?
06-01-98 19:03:25 <Swanee> I had an idea about doing a fai can't remeber it now. I'll come up with it though.
06-01-98 19:03:36 <Swanee> fai=fair
06-01-98 19:03:44 <mandie> actually we have 2 passes....so should announce and plan on a 2nd place prize
06-01-98 19:04:23 * Freiheit thinks MAD meant VAB, but I didn't catch that until just now :)
06-01-98 19:04:30 * MADodel suggests third prize being the floor in Judy's room
06-01-98 19:04:32 <mandie> abraxas: good point
06-01-98 19:04:32 <Swanee> Abraxas: Yes, that is kinda' the point isn't it? (I am assuming?)
06-01-98 19:04:46 <mandie> madodel: then where would my husband sleep
06-01-98 19:04:53 <MADodel> nop VBA. M$ Visual Basic something or other
06-01-98 19:04:55 <Abraxas> hehehe\
06-01-98 19:04:59 * Freiheit calls the sofa in Abraxas' suite
06-01-98 19:05:00 <Freiheit> :b
06-01-98 19:05:09 <Swanee> Maybe set a date for the drawing to try to gain members by?
06-01-98 19:05:13 <Projects> well... we're still holding at 1/day
06-01-98 19:05:27 * Abraxas might be dumping the suite in favor of a room at the Westin :-)
06-01-98 19:05:37 <Freiheit> 1/day is quite an improvement--30 new members per month if it keeps up :)
06-01-98 19:05:39 <mandie> projects: that's actually VERY good!
06-01-98 19:05:51 * MADodel may be taking the suite, but he has 2 kids and a wife
06-01-98 19:06:06 <mandie> now if I can just go out of town..the membership will sky rocket!
06-01-98 19:06:11 <Projects> mandie: yup... I think there was only one day last week that no new members signed up, but last Sunday made up for that :)
06-01-98 19:06:17 <Projects> hahahahaha
06-01-98 19:06:30 <Freiheit> mandie, don't you have family you haven't visited in awhile in, say, Florida? :)
06-01-98 19:06:38 <mandie> lol
06-01-98 19:06:51 <Projects> hell... across town's good, as long as she sleeps there too :)
06-01-98 19:07:00 <mandie> only family I have is in Knoxville Tn and surrounding areas of TN :)
06-01-98 19:07:14 <Freiheit> oh, so go visit os2hq :b
06-01-98 19:07:16 <mandie> projects: tell my husband that one! :)
06-01-98 19:07:19 * Projects books mandie a flight...
06-01-98 19:07:19 <Abraxas> mandie then you could visit Tom :-)
06-01-98 19:07:30 <Projects> mandie: hehehehe
06-01-98 19:07:31 <mandie> abraxas :P
06-01-98 19:07:32 <MADodel> You related to Tom?
06-01-98 19:07:51 * Abraxas ducks for cover
06-01-98 19:07:52 <mandie> not that I'm mentally aware of!
06-01-98 19:08:32 <Freiheit> So what're we up to now? 43? 44? Up from less than 25 a month ago?
06-01-98 19:08:42 <mandie> for those that don't know what we're talking about...when I went to Spring Comdex in Chicago...we had many new memberships that weekend :)
06-01-98 19:08:47 * Freiheit lost count
06-01-98 19:08:58 <Projects> Freiheit: hang on... (counting)
06-01-98 19:08:59 <Freiheit> yeah, like 6
06-01-98 19:09:06 <Freiheit> just that weekend :)
06-01-98 19:09:15 <Abraxas> Projects you going to keep updating us with the curent mailing list?
06-01-98 19:09:16 <mandie> I think 45 now..with the latest from Norway?
06-01-98 19:09:34 <Freiheit> oh yes, and thanks for that tip on PMMail Projects
06-01-98 19:09:51 <Freiheit> okay, I've got to go
06-01-98 19:09:51 <Projects> Freheith: 43 today
06-01-98 19:09:57 <Freiheit> which means the log is now quitting
06-01-98 19:09:58 * Abraxas never "investigated" GROUPS in PMMAIL
06-01-98 19:10:06 <Freiheit> I'll post it to Seth ASAP to post on the website
06-01-98 19:10:08 <Projects> Freiheit: thank mandie too... she pointed it out to me
06-01-98 19:10:18 <Freiheit> oh, thanks mandie!
06-01-98 19:10:22 <mandie> :)
06-01-98 19:10:24 <Freiheit> later all
06-01-98 19:10:26 <Swanee> Nite Freiheit