06-04-97 20:12:38 *** The topic for #VOICE is: Tonight Bill Young will speak on HTML Studio and ProNews/2
06-04-97 20:14:25 <mandie> I'd like to welcome Bill Young to our VOICE Speak Up Session
06-04-97 20:14:48 <young> mandie: Thank you for inviting me :)
06-04-97 20:14:49 <mandie> Bill we can begin the session :)
06-04-97 20:14:59 <young> mandie: sure!
06-04-97 20:15:29 <mandie> young: you can tell us a bit about yourself and intro your products
06-04-97 20:15:43 <MADodel> OK we will take this to a moderated channel now
06-04-97 20:16:34 <young> Lesse... Me. I'm from New Orleams, Married with an 8 Month old daughter (shes sick right now)...
06-04-97 20:16:41 <young> (excuse slow typing)
06-04-97 20:17:04 <young> I have been living in england for 2 years with my wife who is in the USAF.
06-04-97 20:18:12 <young> Products: HTML Studio is a shipping product which is used to create web pages. ProNews is an announced product which will support usenet newsreading!
06-04-97 20:19:47 <mandie> HTML Studio has won many awards...what makes it outstanding over other html editors?
06-04-97 20:21:00 <young> mandie: It has frills :) Little things like being able to preview JPG and GIF files in the file dialog, Autosizing tags for these images, Configurable toolbar. Lots of creature comforts!
06-04-97 20:21:31 <mandie> don't forget drag and drop images into html file :)
06-04-97 20:22:26 <young> mandie: Yes, and drag and drop to insert/open files, drag and drop of NS urls to create links :)
06-04-97 20:22:30 <MADodel> OK what is your title then?
06-04-97 20:23:14 <young> MADodel: Project lead for HTML Studio and ProNews.
06-04-97 20:23:28 <young> And I even program sometimes :)
06-04-97 20:26:51 <MADodel> young: Any other features you are considering to add to HTML Studio in the near future?
06-04-97 20:27:33 <young> MADodel: Yes, quite a few new things. The two bg things are project management and syntax color highlighting.
06-04-97 20:28:31 <MADodel> young: can you explain syntax color highlighting?
06-04-97 20:28:48 <young> The project management is going to take a while, But I am in negotiations to purchase an edior engine with this capability.
06-04-97 20:29:47 <young> MADodel: With syntax highlighting tags will show in different colors than regular text, attributes and whatnot will have there own colors.
06-04-97 20:31:30 <caveman99> i would be interested if HTMLstudio does reformatting of the source by itself. i.e. make correct identing.
06-04-97 20:32:20 <young> caveman99: With the current editor this is impossible, but we will be looking into this when the new editor engine is in place.
06-04-97 20:32:22 <caveman99> and another one to follow: what does html studio do with unknown tags in the code?
06-04-97 20:33:28 <young> caveman99: We dont do anything with it, in fact we even allow the user to define his own tags in the toolbar. I might die, and the HTMl Spec might move forward in indifference to me, so I dont like to keep it locked to any tag set :)
06-04-97 20:33:57 <young> BTW, if you want to see those screen shots /msg young xdcc send #1
06-04-97 20:34:25 <caveman99> i appreciate that since i do quite a lot of server-side scripting and quite a few editors manipuilate or remove these additional tags.
06-04-97 20:34:51 <TedEBear> Young: BTW, Thanks for checking up on my HTML Studio install.. I like that kind of customer support. BTW, on that color syntax highlighting - would it be simular to FTE's current setups for almost everything? And is there a possiblity to make it a MUCH more intelligent editor? (I use HTML studio along side FTE now, cause FTE has some editing features that speed up things even more than having a HTML editor)
06-04-97 20:35:04 <young> caveman99: you could use HTML studio to create perl source and we wouldnt complain :)
06-04-97 20:35:05 <mandie> young: how about the ipf feature that is supported by homepage pub?
06-04-97 20:36:04 <young> TedEBear: I have the source to FTE, but of course cant use it :( The editor we are buying isnt as configurable, but I will be able to modify the source to suit me.
06-04-97 20:36:36 <young> mandie: I may add a converter, but viewing under studio is going to be the problem.
06-04-97 20:39:22 <young> So is anybody interested in the News? :-)
06-04-97 20:40:24 <jaygib> I am wondering how the news product will differ from the currently available products.
06-04-97 20:41:14 <young> jaygib: Features mainly. Right now certain newsreaders are good at certain limited things. We are trying to make a product which will be a one stop shopping trip for people.
06-04-97 20:42:08 <ptackbar> young: inline uudecoding?
06-04-97 20:42:18 <young> ptackbar: yes, and smart multimessage decoding. never hunt for the parts again.
06-04-97 20:42:19 <young> ptackbar: And mime :)
06-04-97 20:42:43 <mandie> I would like to say one thing about Mr Bill Young!!! :)
06-04-97 20:42:51 <mandie> he listens to the users :)
06-04-97 20:42:59 <MADodel> young: is ProNews in an open beta?
06-04-97 20:43:17 <young> ptackbar: Oh, and there is a manual decode option for those people who do multi message like (I of IV) :-)
06-04-97 20:43:18 <caveman99> young: how werll will it be integrated into the WPS? NS news-url support? dropping messages into folders to save them ? etc?
06-04-97 20:43:29 <young> Madodel: No, not yet :(
06-04-97 20:43:47 <MADodel> young: when will it be available then?
06-04-97 20:43:50 <TedEBear> young: Does the ProNews Product not rely on the mouse like so many other "PM" news products do? I am a heavy keyboard user, and the less I use the mouse, but have the ability to use it if I like, the better I view a product.
06-04-97 20:44:08 <Abraxas> young: About the "look and feel"...can you comapare it to ANYTHING curently available, or is it radically different?
06-04-97 20:44:10 <young> caveman99: Well, I integrated NS/2 url viewing last week. Folder drag and drop is something that isnt really suited to this. It does not yet allow user defianble folders.
06-04-97 20:44:38 <young> TedEBear: EVERY menu item has a hotkey, spacebar one button reading, too.
06-04-97 20:44:41 <TedEBear> Abraxas: grab the screenshots. :)
06-04-97 20:44:52 <young> Madodel: Hopefully within the next few weeks for wide beta.
06-04-97 20:45:20 <young> Abraxas: The same and different. A picture is worth a thousand words :)
06-04-97 20:47:02 <young> Abraxas: some things remind me of Agent, but it's no clone.
06-04-97 20:47:55 <Abraxas> young: ok, that's the kind of answer I was wanting, just so I'd know what to start with.
06-04-97 20:47:56 <young> Everybody have pmview loaded up now?
06-04-97 20:48:55 <young> What do you guys(and gals) think of the toolbar bitmaps?
06-04-97 20:49:06 <ptackbar> young: I'm not sure about the reading window...where is that compared to the main picture?
06-04-97 20:49:25 <young> ptackbar: separate windows for each group.
06-04-97 20:49:58 <mandie> young: I would still like to see a global setting for sizing :)
06-04-97 20:50:08 <young> ptackbar: So it's really not tied to the main window at all. (And tede: you can cycle thru all article windows via keyboard:)
06-04-97 20:50:23 <young> mandie: MSG me what you mean.
06-04-97 20:51:32 <Abraxas> young: I assume it has at least a standard killfile?
06-04-97 20:52:41 <young> Abraxas: A killfile? hehehehe, well it has filtering. Full bollean with regular expression matching, based on subject # Lines, composer, or group. Nested parenthesis. Filters can be glablor group by group.
06-04-97 20:53:01 <young> Abraxas: The killfile support is REALLY nice!
06-04-97 20:53:28 <young> Oh and watching... Dont want to forget that.
06-04-97 20:53:34 <Abraxas> young: ok, so "killfile" is a bit understated :)
06-04-97 20:54:15 <young> Abraxas: Even though it sounds complicated you can filter a composer from a menu without mucking in the filter language.
06-04-97 20:54:49 <jaygib> young: Will you expand on watching?
06-04-97 20:54:57 <young> Binary Newsgroups followers will love this filter: group="*binaries*" AND lines="<300"
06-04-97 20:55:57 <young> Watching is the oppisite of a filter. You can watch for certain posts based on whatever critiria you select and those messages will be highlighted and/or autodownloaded.
06-04-97 20:56:38 <young> If you can look at the first picture (of the control panel) you will see a group that is hotpink. That group has unread articles by a composer I have on my watch list.
06-04-97 20:57:10 <young> Another nice thing is the configurability.
06-04-97 20:57:18 <TedEBear> mandie: I'd expect that, based on the quality of HTML Studio.
06-04-97 20:58:07 <young> Pretty much all of the settings are defianble on a group by group basis. In a regular group seeing the 'lines' field might not be a priority. In a bin group it's the main thing.
06-04-97 20:59:31 <TedEBear> young: What exactly is the lines field do? filter messages based on content?
06-04-97 20:59:31 <young> Lemme think what else is nifty :)
06-04-97 21:00:02 <young> TedEBear: in the article window the lines field just shows how many lines of text a message contains.
06-04-97 21:00:13 <TedEBear> young: in the filters.
06-04-97 21:00:22 <young> TedEBear: No, we dont do any filtering based on article bodies.
06-04-97 21:01:07 <Drumpig> whens the trivia???
06-04-97 21:01:11 <young> TedEBear: Filtering is to stop you from downloading things, and once the article is downloaded we dont go into the body looking.
06-04-97 21:01:21 <young> Oh, is it trivia time :)
06-04-97 21:02:46 <young> jaygib: Well, we plan on having a public beta until the bugs are out, but hopefully the public beta will be within the next few weeks.
06-04-97 21:02:56 <young> Ok, here comes the question.
06-04-97 21:03:51 <young> Who was the microsoft programmer who fathered HPFS and who is the IBM programmer currently responsible for it's development?
06-04-97 21:04:13 * young grins
Moderator's note: Of course being this is the internet, so at this point the log disconnected. :-(
We take up just after Marian Aldrich - MHA1; Dan Casey - Abraxas and Thomas Gttgens - caveman99 had won copies of HTML Studio by answering trivia questions.
Thanks to Bill Young and Panacea Software for their generosity
06-04-97 21:10:38 <caveman99> drum: his real name was Jarkko
06-04-97 21:10:43 <i-SoB> oh
06-04-97 21:10:44 <young> MHA1 came thru first here :)
06-04-97 21:10:57 <mandie> Jarkko Oikarinen in Finland
06-04-97 21:11:14 * Abraxas missed it by THAT MUCH :(
06-04-97 21:11:44 <caveman99> young: in April he gave an INterview on Undernet. Over 1000 ppl in the room.
06-04-97 21:11:47 <i-SoB> young: if i find the answer to the 1st do i still win somepen?
06-04-97 21:12:07 <young> i-Sob: sure :) you have *10* minutes!
06-04-97 21:12:24 <young> caveman99: would have liked to have seen that, really.
06-04-97 21:12:43 <caveman99> young: the log of it is on www.pr-com.undernet.org
06-04-97 21:14:02 <MADodel> OK MHA1 is our winner.
06-04-97 21:14:07 <young> special surprise!
06-04-97 21:14:41 <mandie> mha1: congrats!!!!!
06-04-97 21:14:55 <young> Got the primary developer for the news program comming!
06-04-97 21:14:56 <MHA1> Thanks ! ! : )))
06-04-97 21:15:31 <NovaSt0rM> Hello's everyone
06-04-97 21:15:43 <mandie> NovaStorm: hiya :)
06-04-97 21:15:44 <TedEBear> i-SoB: the answer for the #1 trivia? No. but it is in mine. :0
06-04-97 21:15:49 <young> Everybody, meet Nova, AHEM brian :)
06-04-97 21:16:00 <NovaSt0rM> hehe, Hey everyone :)
06-04-97 21:16:39 <young> Now all those togh questions ask nova :)
06-04-97 21:16:53 <NovaSt0rM> oh no :)
06-04-97 21:17:09 <MADodel> OK Nova: who are you?
06-04-97 21:17:37 <NovaSt0rM> MAD: Brian Lamb, programmer for Panacea
06-04-97 21:19:25 <mandie> I'd like to welcome NovaSt0rm to VOICE
06-04-97 21:20:12 <mandie> NovaSt0rm: can you tell us a bit about your position and interest in ProNews :)
06-04-97 21:21:51 <young> Dont make ME start asking you questions :)
06-04-97 21:21:53 <NovaSt0rM> Well, I'm currently the Primary programmer for Panacea's ProNews/2
06-04-97 21:22:25 <mandie> NovaSt0rm: nice job!!! IMHO :)
06-04-97 21:22:32 <NovaSt0rM> Does anyone here have any questions?
06-04-97 21:22:35 <mandie> Nova: when do you think it will go public?
06-04-97 21:22:39 <young> BTW, He also did the graphics routines (the JPG GIF display stuff) in HTML Studio :)
06-04-97 21:23:19 <NovaSt0rM> mandie: well, as most software companies will tell you, "real soon now" :)
06-04-97 21:23:29 <young> caveman got the first part of the trivia correct :)
06-04-97 21:23:35 <NovaSt0rM> mandie: Seriously though, it's in it's final beta stages and will be released in a few weeks
06-04-97 21:24:01 <mandie> nova: great..I think it's a real winner!
06-04-97 21:24:10 <mandie> nova: even if you didn't know I had it :)
06-04-97 21:24:16 <NovaSt0rM> mandie: Thanks
06-04-97 21:24:22 <MADodel> young: and the answer is?
06-04-97 21:24:31 <young> NovaSt0rM: how many lines of code are we at now?
06-04-97 21:24:33 <NovaSt0rM> Sorry, public beta will be released real soon, not the actual release version
06-04-97 21:24:43 <NovaSt0rM> young: Over 40000 now
06-04-97 21:24:45 <NovaSt0rM> :)
06-04-97 21:24:59 <young> madodel: The MS programmer was gordin letwin :)
06-04-97 21:25:29 <MADodel> young: I thought you said he was famous? :-)
06-04-97 21:25:40 <mandie> mad: hehe
06-04-97 21:25:56 <young> madodel: Well he is if you are in to that sort of thing :)
06-04-97 21:26:01 <MHA1> Never heard of that guy - really hard question.
06-04-97 21:26:05 <mandie> mad: he's more popular than gordin letlose :)
06-04-97 21:26:18 * NovaSt0rM thinks he missed something :)
06-04-97 21:26:41 <mandie> Nova: we had a trivia question for the door prize HTML Studio :)
06-04-97 21:26:58 <Abraxas> I've heard of him...Just couldn't remember.(try reading the Gates Biography...all sorts of cool trivia type stuff in there)
06-04-97 21:27:08 <young> NovaSt0rM: programmer for MS who architected HPFS, current IBM Employee who maintains it.
06-04-97 21:28:59 <MADodel> NovaSt0rM: Is that 40000 lines of C code?
06-04-97 21:29:14 <NovaSt0rM> MAD: yep
06-04-97 21:30:00 <mandie> Doug Azzarito?
06-04-97 21:30:09 <TedEBear> NovaSt0rM: Should we care how big the program is, as long as all the code is worth something?
06-04-97 21:30:26 * TedEBear hands mandie a "I did the second half" sticker.
06-04-97 21:30:31 <young> mandie!!!!
06-04-97 21:30:38 <NovaSt0rM> TedE: It's a programmer thing :)
06-04-97 21:30:50 <NovaSt0rM> "My source is bigger than your source!" :)
06-04-97 21:31:00 <young> hehehe
06-04-97 21:31:20 <TedEBear> THAT would explain the bloat ware.. ;)
06-04-97 21:31:53 <NovaSt0rM> TedE: Nah, we just comment a lot :P
06-04-97 21:37:29 <mandie> Nova: a question about ProNews...I asked young..but I'll ask *you* also :)
06-04-97 21:37:58 <mandie> nova: I'd like to be able to resize 1 news window and have them all maintain that size...instead of sizing each window
06-04-97 21:38:18 <young> Great util I found today: sbr2_008.zip
06-04-97 21:38:21 <mandie> like a save window position and have it save globally
06-04-97 21:38:35 <NovaSt0rM> mandie: ok, I'll have young add it to "the list" :)
06-04-97 21:38:38 * NovaSt0rM glances at young
06-04-97 21:38:56 <mandie> Nova: thx :)
06-04-97 21:39:13 <young> NovaSt0rM: Done. User defianble on a group by group basis (OF COURSE) :-)
06-04-97 21:39:57 <NovaSt0rM> young: ok.. little checkbox for "use global position"?
06-04-97 21:40:39 <young> NovaSt0rM: yeah... But WHAT global postion becomes sticky. same as last artwnd closed?
06-04-97 21:42:26 <mandie> does anyone have anymore questions/requests for young or NovaSt0rm?
06-04-97 21:42:28 <young> Gee, you know nobody asked me about the offline capabilities!
06-04-97 21:42:49 <mandie> young: can you read news offline? :)
06-04-97 21:42:58 <MHA1> young: and that is more inportant!
06-04-97 21:43:08 <NovaSt0rM> young: add an option to save position as global postition
06-04-97 21:43:46 <mandie> young: will you send MHA1 the license for HTML Studio?
06-04-97 21:43:47 <young> NovaSt0rM: Tell us about the queue manager and offline reading :)
06-04-97 21:44:10 <young> mandie: I already made/sent off a registration key
06-04-97 21:44:17 <MHA1> mandie: got it. : )
06-04-97 21:44:18 <mandie> young: you're toooo good :)
06-04-97 21:44:22 <mandie> young: thx :)
06-04-97 21:44:43 <mandie> mha1: have you used HTML STudio?
06-04-97 21:45:06 <NovaSt0rM> Ok, well basically you can go into Offline mode via the ProNews/2 menu, and anything and everything you do will be put into the "Process Manager".. you can move items around in the queue (up, down, to the top, bottom etc) or kill them.
06-04-97 21:45:20 * caveman99 likes to thank young for the key as well :-) He was so generous to donate 2 copies of the program.
06-04-97 21:45:21 <MHA1> mandie: no, only dabbled with another one. ;> Looking at the screen shots right now of HTML Studio.
06-04-97 21:45:26 <young> NovaSt0rM: what happens if I am offline?
06-04-97 21:45:40 <NovaSt0rM> Once you reconnect, you can "Go online" (again from the pronews/2 menu) and everything in the queue will be executed
06-04-97 21:45:45 <mandie> MHA1: I used htmlwiz and even regged it...I now use HTML Studio :)
06-04-97 21:46:10 <NovaSt0rM> young: If it fails to connect, ProNews will go offline by default and put the failed task in the queue
06-04-97 21:46:17 <MHA1> mandie: I am no web page pro, but I'll learn eventually.
06-04-97 21:46:27 <young> what if I turn the program off for the night with junk in the queue?
06-04-97 21:46:36 <mandie> Nova: I'd like to be able to click once on article and have it open...and 2 clicks if offline and it will reconnect..instead of sending to queue
06-04-97 21:46:50 <TedEBear> MHA1: the learning curve is *REAL fast with HTML Studio. It's great.
06-04-97 21:46:50 <NovaSt0rM> young: It will save it and reload it when you start up the program again
06-04-97 21:47:20 <NovaSt0rM> mandie: Well if you're in online mode it will do just that
06-04-97 21:47:33 <NovaSt0rM> mandie: It will first go to the queue, see that it is online and create a connection to the newsserver
06-04-97 21:48:13 <MHA1> Thanks, TedEBear. : )
06-04-97 21:48:59 <mandie> Nova: ok, guess I'm doing something wrong then..I'll have to play with it
06-04-97 21:49:22 <NovaSt0rM> mandie: Do you mean you don't want it to go offline when it fails to connect to the server?
06-04-97 21:49:28 <young> madie: what you are asking is for the program to go out and try to swtich to online mode whenever a person tried to get an article. The (IMHO) would be an annoyance to people using the program primarily for offline reading. How would they go about putting things in the queue and also stay offline?
06-04-97 21:49:54 <mandie> nova: nope..if I double click then I'd like it to reconnect..I have to go to the queue and tell it to execute
06-04-97 21:50:14 <NovaSt0rM> mandie: You're probably in offline mode (check the ProNews/2 menu)
06-04-97 21:50:22 <mandie> nova: I sure will
06-04-97 21:51:54 <young> mandie: If I am in offline mode (and want to be) I dont want the program to try and connect each time I go to put an article in the queue.
06-04-97 21:55:50 <mandie> I'd like to thank young and NovaSt0rm for being our guests at tonight Speak Up session and also for their excellent product HTML STudio and soon to be released (RSN) ProNews :)
06-04-97 21:56:32 <NovaSt0rM> You're welcome mandie, thanks for having us :)
06-04-97 21:56:44 <young> Thank you mandie!
06-04-97 21:56:52 <mandie> NovaSt0rm: we may request another visit after the release of ProNews :)
06-04-97 21:57:14 <NovaSt0rM> mandie: Sure thing, look forward to it
06-04-97 21:57:17 <mandie> I'd also like to thank all for coming tonight
06-04-97 22:04:09 <mandie> Reminder: Brad Wardell will be our guest on 6/18 and a door prize of Links/2 will be given away