SpeakUp with Sundial Systems from 06/07/99. Topic: General Q & A and Tips and Tricks concerning Sunial Systems' products.

<AbraxasWelcome, everyone
<SteveSOne of the guest speakers has arrived. Welcome Rollin.
<rollinHello! Randell will be here shortly.
<ceewunhave i got time to make a coffee ?
<Smazethanks Abraxas!
<AbraxasWhile we're waiting for Randell to arrive, I have a few brief things to touch on
<SectorOS/2 will handle it, just open up the coffee maker and let it go
<ceewun!! OK.. brb
<CicHelle every body ! The server in Canada seems to be down.
*  maximum I can see a first timer is going to have a problem here.
<CicI don't think so.
<SectorThe Canada server had some hardware problems awhile back and the Op hasn't had time to fix em yet.
<randellHi all, I'm finally here!
<AbraxasVOICE is working on two projects, at this time. A revival/upgrade of what once was known as "The Warp Pharmacy" and Warpstock 99
<AbraxasAnyon who is subscribed to the warpdoctor@os2voice.org list knows that things seem a bit "slow", but trust me ... things are proceeding quite well, and we should have some news towards the end of this week
<ceewunaah... The WP... found many a clue in there way back!!
<Abraxasceewun Well, if you liked the WP bck then, you'll love what we are going to do with it :-)
<AbraxasAs to Warpstock .... it's time to start planning on what VOICE will be doing at the show, and who,what,when and where everything will happen
<AbraxasSo ... we are looking for an "Event Coordinator"
<AbraxasSomeone who wil step forward and volunteer to handle things like scheduling of volunteers to man the booth, etc
<AbraxasWe are looking for a VOICE member to do this, and whoever is chosen will receive a free pass to Warpstock 99 (in recognition of their efforts)
<maximumDo you have a program chairman?
<Abraxasmaximum No .... this is, bsaically, what we are looking for.
<AbraxasFor the time being, all info and scheduling will pass through the entire Board of Directors
<maximumWhat is the role of the people in Atlanta?
<AbraxasThe people in Atlanta will be coordinating the entire event ... we're looking for someone to coordinate the VOICE presence at Warpstock
<BunnyEarshi all
<AbraxasI don't want to hold up the guests, so anyone wanting more information on the Warpstock project acne e-mail me at: abraxas@os2voice.org
<maximumOn then with the Rolling and Randell show.
<AbraxasAnyone wanting to help out with the revival of the Warp Pharmacy project can join the mailing list at the OS/2 Supersite
<rollinAnd Dan!
<AbraxasCan, even
<AbraxasNow, on with the Speakup
<jdkulpYea, me.
<SectorHi Sunny
<Abraxasrandell, rollin and jdkulp are our guests for the evening
<SunnyBearhey SectorSugar
<AbraxasI'll turn the room over to them
<JohnWho's the DBExpert expert?
<randellThe last 4 or 5 speakups we have done have all been specific to one or the other of our products.
<randellSo, for a change...
<randellwe thought that this time we'd mainly open it up to the floor for questions...
<randellAnd we will try to throw in a few tips and tricks as time permits (and we think of them) as well.
<CicWhat do you want to do with the Warp Pharmacy project ? Is it an help file a web site ?
<randellSo, tonight, anything about Relish, Clearlook, DBExpert, Mesa 2, and the Rover Pack is pretty much fair game.
<randellJohn, for tonight at least, I'm the designated DBExpert expert.
<maximumIs it fair to talk about the set of products as a suite?
<rollinDidn't take long for that to come up! Randell...
<ceewunany moves on removing redundant macro code in the .dbe file...?
<randellLet me handle the .dbe file one first...
<randellAt the moment, no, there is no way to remove redundant "stuff" from the .DBE file in DBExpert.
<randellHowever, you can expect that we will be adding something to "pack" the DBE file in the same sense
<randellas what we added to pack the actual table (DBF) files. That should do the trick.
<randellceewun, did that answer it?
<ceewunthat would be good... I have =massive=, er, little apps .. due to old 'test' macros...
<ceewun..er. yes.. any time frame ? (I know HD space is cheaper but....) :-)
<randellI hear you... it's a known issue and I'm really a bit surprised that the folks at Designer Software didn't address it in the original design of the product.
<randellceewun, it may appear in 2.0.8... otherwise in 2.1. 2.0.8 will be later this summer.
<ceewunright... well.. I'll be looking forward to it for that feature alone(ish) ;-)
<ceewunwhat about bringing Mesa (FABulous productm btw) closer to DBe... import/export etc ?
<randellmaximum, let me turn the question around... just what is a "suite" anyway?
<randellceewun, it's on our list but I don't have a specific timeframe. In the most recent releases we have made them much more compatible in terms of clipboard transfers.
<CicFor me a suite is many inter-related applications.
<maximumA suite in a hotel means a large connected set of rooms. A suite in software means a large connected set of applications. A suite by any other name would smell as Lotus SmartSuite or SO5.
<randellBut if you look at most "suites", how well are the applications connected anyway?
<randellIn SO5, it's all one big app... that's both good and bad.
<CicNo problems with SO.
<ceewunBad for OS/2 + WPS.. great for Linux with its, er, 'Desktop'...
<randellIn SmartSuite, it's indeed a collection of programs -- but they aren't really all the "similar" when you start to dig under the covers.
<randellSo, let me put a different spin on it...
<maximumThe big bully on the block is Office 2000. Forget Lotus. Forget SO.
<ceewunI think the main driving and bonding criteria for a 'suite' is to be able to see data in one app and know that it can easily and naturally be used in another...
<JohnI was making a drawing in SO5. Placed some text such as "http:www.something.com" in the text. It kept trying to connect to the web.
<randellToday, "suite" seems to mean stuff that comes together in the same "box" (physical or virtual) and not much more.
<CicHow about the building block approach ?
<ceewun(ie.. a database table > spreadsheet table, for one..)
<randellSome "suites" are actually collections of unrelated products.
<randellThe term "suite" is just plain overused.
<ceewunOrifice was exactly that....
<ceewun(unrelated products ...mmn.. and overused now I think of it!)
<randellI prefer to think what we are offering the OS/2 community is a "family" of OS/2 products.
<MoroffI think family is a better term.
<randellIdeally, they would all work together absolutely seamlessly.
<maximumRandell, all that is true. But you have a suite of products no matter how you define the covers. What keeps your toot suite from being a real suite?
<randellBut I'll admit that's not entirely the case... we are still in the (long) process of taking these diverse applications (from a bunch of sources) and making them play together as a family.
<maximumWhat do you see as your major barrier?
<CicDiversity of appearence is o.K. with me it is the functions that are important.
<randellAnd any family (or suite) is more than just a collection... that's why we are adding things like the Rover Pack that we can use to tie the individual apps together.
<SwaneeHello? (he's late again...) :-)
<ceewunRover Pack... 'ang on... whasatt..? I'll go see
<randellmaximun, the big problem as far as I'm concerned...
*  Sector sets Swanee's clock ahead 30 minutes
<randellIs that OS/2 doesn't have a "document model".
<ceewuneh...?... what do you mean by that...? I find OS/2 very 'docucentric'...
<MoroffWhat do you mean by "document model"?
<randellThere is no way for the user to *easily* embed things from multiple programs into a single document/solution... now that OpenDoc is no more.
*  madodel thinks more people should read the monthly VOICE Newsletter and they would know what Rover Pack is.
<ceewunright... yes... OpenDoc.. fabulous tech from what I read...
<randellMoroff, by "docuement model" I mean the kind of thing that OpenDoc would have provided or that OLE (and compound documents) provide on
<randell...on "that other platform"
<CicSOm was supposed to geve that if I am noy miataken ?
<ceewunOLE is crap... it breaks very easily... most companies I know give up using it once they've mislaid the brochure..
<maximumRandell, OpenDoc has been supplanted by XML. Before OpenDoc there was IBM's OfficeVision with its mixed object document architecture.
<randellUnfortunately, we can't really afford to build a document model ourselves eventhough SOM and things like that make OS/2 an excellent platform for doing so.
<rollinSOM is a good foundation, but doesn't actually implement the document model that would be needed.
<MoroffNot that "that other platform" works any better. It's not always as easy as the marketing dept. would have you believe...
<randellXML *may* be part of the answer, but it's too early to tell.
<randellAnd don't get me started on OfficeVision...
<ceewunwho 'owns' XML ?
<JohnWell, you don't need to link *everything* just certain classes, like drawings, graphs, tables, etc.
<randellJohn, agreed... but at partly general solution often turns out to be easier to build than a whole bunch of specific ones.
<randellBottom line is that if people want to call what we offer a suite, that's up to them. It's just that we don't really want to promote it that way (for a bunch of reasons).
<maximumWe start out with sgml, then html, now xml. Along the way each piece seemed to work well until we ran into its limits.
<IcemanSpeaking of suites, though, is it possible to for example link a Mesa 2 spreadsheet to a clearlook document?
<MoroffMaximum, that's a good point.
<randellIceman, not today with the 1.7 generation of Clearlook... but if we ever manage to get Clearlook 2.0 out the door...
<IcemanHope that's not too big of an if
<randellNot if, just when...
<CicEverything has limits, the main issue is : is there a complementarity of solutions ?
<randellCic, good point... and I personally thing we've got most of that.
<maximumCic, yes.
<CicI agree.
<maximumIs XML a non-proprietary, industry standard?
<ceewunmax.. is there such as thing ?
<randellmaximum, reasonably so... but industry standards are now often driven by what is actually implmented in particular products
<ceewunMSTCPIP.. MSJava... MSHTML etc etc
<CicStandards are supposed to belong to all, no?
<randellceewun, my point exactly
<MoroffCic, I agree.
<ceewunwhich means we can expect an MSXML...
<randellDan is sitting out there waiting to chime in about Mesa 2. somebody must have an interesting Mesa question for him.
<MoroffScary thought, eh?
<ceewunit'll happen...
<ceewunMesa 2... bloody brilliant.
<jdkulpThanks for the good comment. :)
<maximumI just read a review in this week's PCWeek of an XML authoring tool that runs only in an MS OS. You don't have to be MS to pull that trick.
<CicYes, but............. Somebody asked me recently if it had the same kind of Templates as other Spredsheets. The guy is too lousy to implement its own.
<MoroffMesa 2 is a fantastic app but I;m afraid my dinosaur of a system is just too slow... (wine, wine...
<ceewunHow is it that Mesa 2 sheets saved as CSVs smash our clients' Excels to peices?
<rollinExcel is made by Microsoft? :)
<jdkulpceewun: One possibility is the number of columns. Excel is limited to 256.
<IcemanYeah, the Mesa 2 files are great, I had one spreadsheet of +500,000 cells that only took 10 megs
<CicI exported an CSV with an other app, Quattro Pro and it smashed Excell too.
<ceewun(Mesa produces sheets WAY to large for Excel to handle... so there we are collating data from our sources and...sigh.. we have to chop them up into witsy itsy bits... :-) !!!!!
<randellcic, we spent most of our time on the products... not on the samples/templates/examples, etc. though this is something we would like to encourage our users to contribute/exchange
<Moroffceewun, the sign of better memory management?
<jdkulpExcel's import filters are VERY unforgiving in general. It makes writing export filters for Mesa difficult.
<ceewunwell. a knock on from the DoJ trial could be the opening of their datafile formats...
<CicThe exchange idea is good, need a place to put it though.
<Moroffjdkulp, I've found that any MS app has an unforgiving import segment.
<randellcic, we trying to come up with a solution for that
<os2hqI consider IMPORT filters for OS/2 apps, more important than EXPORT filters. Converting people from MS up to OS/2 is an important path IMO. OTOH, they have to be able to exchange data with the MS dinosaurs still out there....
<JohnCan I ask some DBE questions?
<os2hqYes, DBE!
<randellJohn, sure.
<JohnCan I FETCH from a cursor INTO REXX host variables?
<os2hqBefore I get serious about starting an app dev project with DBE, does DBE have a print engine built it, or do I have to write one myself??
<rollinos2hq, DBE has a good report designer included as a key part of the product.
<randellJohn, we don't have cursors perse, but once a record is current you can get any portion of it by calling dbeGet() and specifying which column you are interested in
<os2hqrollin: Thanks, I feel very good about DBE then. The REXX tool I bought a few years ago had no print engine, which stopped me cold.
<randellos2hq, please don't think of DBExpert as as REXX tool...
<os2hqRandell: No, no, I didn't mean that! ;)
<ceewunit would great id DBe could print solid boxes and all that...
<os2hqI meant that I'm willing to develop in any tool that will get the job for me, and any language.
<randellIt's a full-fledged Relational database application design product that just happens to use REXX as it's macro language
<os2hqRandell: right, I understand that. I'm coming from a REXX background to a Database platform, which is quite a step up.
<randellos2hq, indeed.
<os2hqceewun: Yes, that's what I have in mind, writing an invoicing app.
<ceewunos2hq.. you'll find the Rexx support in Dbe a boon...
<os2hqI need to print some kind of boxes, etc. for the forms.
<rollinIt will do boxes, just not filled boxes.
<ceewunBest thing is to pre-print and have DBe overlay...
<os2hqREXX is cool. DBE will probably be the thing that gets me coding in it for real now.
<CicDBE would need a graphic engine then
<MoroffTime to go. Good luck to all at Sundial Systems. May you have a prosperous year!
<randellceewun, I'll admit I haven't tried it lately but DBExpert *can* print boxes and you should be able to set the fill color to black so they appear solid.
<os2hqceewun: That could work, too, but I'd rather not get into the biz of selling preprinted forms!!
<randellMoroff, thanks for the encouragement
<os2hqAh, yes, fill colors.... like light gray for the "bottom line", perhaps??
<ceewunmmn... I'll give it another go... but I'm sure it only printed the outline... and very thin to boot..
<randellceewun, if you have trouble with it, drop a note to dbexpert@sundialsystems.com and we will check it out
<IcemanWho is the Mesa 2 expert here?
<rollinDan is the key developer and expert for Mesa 2.
<JohnAlso, if DBE can fill REXX variables, you could use Hockware's VisPro REXX and VisPro Report. VisPro Report has boxes, shadow boxes, and lots of other features.
<IcemanDan, I am having trouble just drawing a plain vertical or horizontal line with the draw tool? Any suggestions?
<os2hqYeah, a Mesa 2 question.... Does it export comma-delimited text? Lotus 123 for OS/2 didn't do that directly, I had to write a macro to massage my Faxworks data.
<ceewunVP is superb... however, knocking up a query in DBe is a breeze compared to what would be entailed in VP + DB engine...
<rollinos2hq, yes it can save to CSV.
<os2hqAh, I should have bought the VPro REXX report kit then. The Bronze couldn't do a thing!!
<jdkulpSorry, computer heat-alarms just went off, had to pop some cases and get the air conditioning running..
<os2hqrollin: Thanks, that would make it a definite plus in working with Faxworks.
<ceewun.. thought I noticed it a little hot over here!
<randellJohn, DBExpert is really intended to be the thing you build your application in... it's not a "database library" and thus not really indeeded to be used inside other application design products like VisPro REXX.
<ceewunrandell.. are you lot familiar with VP over there in Sundial..?
<maximumI'm not on the REXX bandwagon, being one of the happy campers using PL/I or COBOL with DB2 UDB.
<jdkulpIceman: you need to use the selection manager to set the height or width to 4 pixels.
<os2hqOkay, time for me to go.... BTW, one more BIGGIE: Rand/Roll, do you guys see any, any, any way you could buy out PhotoGraphics Pro 2 for OS/2, and make it available to the OS/2 community, even on a non-supported basis??? It's a "killer app" here.
<jdkulpos2hq: yes. It can export CSV files. Actually, you can set it to comma's, tabs, colons, etc...
<maximumgoodby, os2hq.
<Guardian_os2hq what's with it?
<os2hqGuard: PhotoGraphics has won me over bigtime to do my web graphics & banners, and I really think it should be continued by *somebody*.
<Guardian_os2hq it's dead?
<ceewun[cough] GIMP, anyone?
<os2hqYeah, it's in sleep mode.... TrueSpec is doing web server side stuff only now.
<SwaneeGuardian_: TrueSpectra stopped development of it and are going a bit of a different direction.
<randellI haven't talked to anyone at TrueSpectra (ie, PhotoGraphics) for a while so I don't know what there plans for the codebase are.
<SwaneeGreat app
<IcemanDan, thanks for the info on the lines. Just tried it out. For development, any plans for something like a solver?
<randellceewun, I missed the trust of your questioin about VP...
<jdkulpIceman: I have a simple "goal seeker" addin written, but nothing near the capabilities of a full solver.
<CicGIMP needs the Xserver which is out of a question for me. I tried to find a copu of PhotoGraphics recently , no way.
<os2hqOkay, bye all. Thanx Sundial people!!
<ceewunrandell... just that you could nick a few 'events' of theirs
<IcemanDan, where bouts would the addin be available from? Is it on the Mesa 2 website?
<randellceewun, got it.
<jdkulpIt was supposed to be on my personal web site, but it isn't. Email me at mesa2@sundialsystems.com and I can send it to you.
<ceewun.. along with the concept of a 'global' app variable...
<randellWe are still working out how to make some of the things like that add-in available via the Sundial web site... stay tuned.
<randellceewun, something like "global"
<randellceewun, something like "global" app variables are on the plan... for now, you have to use a (possibly hidden) field on some form you always have open
<ceewunright... that's what I do currently... :)
<randellceewun, you and just about every other serious DBExpert user...
<randellFor a change of pace...
<randellhow about one of those tips we've been promising.
<ceewungo on then!! :)
<randellAny body want to say (or guess) how you get Mesa 2 to use a background bitmap for a sheet?
<ceewundid that in the first 30s....wonderful program!!!
<ceewunsxorry for bragging!!! :-)
<CicFor the mesa specialist: I tried to import an Excell95 file and work in Mesa then export it again to Ex-cell [;-) without any success, what is the problem ?
<maximumWhat, no tip just because one guy knows already?
<jdkulpMesa 2 (at this point) only exports to Excel 97. It won't export to Excel 95.
<ceewun'''oops.... sorry... I'll leave the room for a moment, shall I!!
<maximumceewun, nah, don't leave, there may be two answers to this one.
<randellTo set the backround bitmap in Mesa 2, just drag any bitmap file (such as from your \OS2\BITMAPS folder) and drop it on the sheet.
<ceewun(told you it was a wonderful prog!)
<IcemanDrap & drop. Amazing ;-)
<CicSorry I meant Excell 97.
<randellDan is being modest... he has the Excel 5 export working now and it will be included in the next release.
<ceewunthe thing to do is cybernerdsurf the web and grab some of those notepaper with rings etc backgrounds...
<jdkulpI'm allowed to mention that??!?!? :)
<randellWhat the heck!!
<rwhite2 Just don't mention the feed improvements!
<randellNo don't mention those.
<ceewunthey're not Belgium, are they ?
<ceewun(sorry,,, Brit EU joke)
<randellDon't mention the file locking either.
<madodelI don't recall if this has been asked but I have an emailed question asking when Clearlook will be updated? Any timetable for it yet?
<jdkulpCic: if you get a chance, send the files to mesa2@sundialsystems.com. I can look at it in the debugger as well as hex dumps to see if something is completely wrong.
<Cicjdkulp: I returned to files to my client.
<randellWe are continuing to work on Clearlook 2.0. I don't want to say anything about a release date at this time.
<jdkulpOk. I won't wont mention the WB2 import filter either.
<randellRollin, didn't you want to throw in a Relish tip?
<rwhite2People are usually aware of Relish Buns. But one of the features often overlooked...
<rwhite2Is that you can drag a bun to a printer, directly from the desktop without opening it, and it will print the contents of the bun.
<maximumAnother drag and drop joke? What happened to blondes?
<rwhite2You'd think we liked drag and drop or something?
<ceewunI know nothing about Relish (I use a Psion s5) so: Does Relish have Rexx support (I'm thinking massaging exported data etc)
<CicThey are developing a new app for them its called MUST-Hard.
<maximumYou can leave out the 'something'.
<rwhite2Relish doesn't have REXX support, but it does have a flexible import/export for CSV files.
<rwhite2Including things like combining fields, seperating them by special characters, etc.
<randell(WIth more options coming in Relish 2.3)
<rwhite2Don't mention the area code support in 2.3 either.
<ceewunright... I may have another look.. I did long ago and er...um...
<StevenLI've got a Mesa question.
<maximumFirst, drag and drop, then unmentionables. How untidy.
<randellStevenL, go for it...
<StevenLIs there something like @today that generates the sheet's save date?
<JohnHave to go. Bye all. Long live OS/2!
<jdkulpThere is an @TODAY function, but it generates the time the sheet was last calculated.
<StevenLThe problem with @today is that I changes everytime the sheet is opened or it sure seems to .
<StevenLI it.
<ceewunStevenL... don;y want to sound a complete prat, but.. isn;t the file save date saved, er.. with the file..?
<StevenLI could get it with REXX, but it's roundabout.
<jdkulpI'll add this too the wish list. For now, you could create a macro set to run on close or something that will update the value. I'm not exactly sure how well that would work.
<madodelIS @today any different then @now?
<jdkulpNo, internally the two are identical.
<rwhite2I need a function @AS_SOON_AS_I_GET_TO_IT(), can you help?
<ceewuninteresting... I would have thought @today would be datey and @now be timey...
<jdkulpThey both return the number of days since Jan1,1900. The "time" is encoded in the fraction of the days.
<ceewunwe're thinking of hanging Mesa off a CGI on a httpd... comments?
<jdkulpNow THAT
<randellVery few of the formula functions are "specific" to Mesa -- we didn't design what they do... they trace their origins to how the functions where originally defined in 1-2-3 or Excel.
<jdkulpNow THAT'S an interesting use for it.
<madodelceewun: may I ask for what purpose?
<jdkulpIf Mesa is already running (or you start it from the script) you should be able to control it via REXX and the POSTMESACOMMAND function.
<ceewunjdkulp..exactly our thoughts... but (having not tried it yet) was wondering how reliable it would be.. (Bear in mind our NT server REBOOOOTTSS F I V E times a DAY (not our choice.. client requires M$ extensions or something)
<ceewunmadodel.. we're finding ourselves conducting a fair bit of data gathering for research companies which we import to Mesa for it to 'do its bit' for export to CSVs or Excel files. Thought we'd skip the import and squirt directly into Mesa....
<CicShould work if it is on an other server running on OS/2.
<jdkulpMesa 2 itself is quite solid. I'm not aware of anyone else trying to run it via heavy use of external scripts so I cannot comment too much on that. If you do decide to pursue this, PLEASE keep me informed of how well it works.
<ceewunjdk...will do..
<jdkulpIt sounds like a fun project.
<ceewunthe fun bit is (was) supplying the CSVs...
<randellMore questions?
<ceewunbuttons and other furniture in Mesa ?
<DoubleTI have a Relish question. I want to setup buns for each of my Groups. The notes in these buns will be floating notes. These notes will represent things I have to do but not on a specific date or time. For example, I want a Group and a bun called "Errands". Is it possible to have a bun where I double click the bun and one or both of these things are possible: 1) the bun opens up in "add a note mode" and 2) the Group field is automaticall
<rwhite2The add a note on open is not currently possible....
<DoubleTlly reminded about these untimed, undated items.
<rwhite2But, if you set the group in the bun, when you add a note, the field will be preset.
<SteveSI would like to see a bit larger address area in Relish. I keep running out of space in the address input field.
<randellSteveS, already on the wish list...
<DoubleTrwhite2: Will I have to go to the Feautures->Group dialog of will it automatically fill it in?
<rwhite2It will be preset as long as you are adding the note from that bun.
<SteveSNow the question would be, how soon will that wish list item surface in a release of Relish?
<rwhite2You know we don't discuss product dates until we are very close.
<randellReturning to the reminders of undated/untimed items for a minute...
<randellIt's a little know feature that a floating note (without a date or a time) *CAN* have a alarm date/time set...
<randellIt will still be a floating note but you will get an alarm reminder at the specified date/time
<CicI will have to leave soon but I have a question: do you have plans to bundle Mesa and DBE together at a fair price ?
<randellSteveS, the most specific I can be is that it's on the list of things we have not decided whether to include in 2.3 or not.
<SteveSMaybe I need to sneak into the Sundial office and set some Relish reminder alarms about completing the wish list items.
<DoubleTrwhite2: Good. What I'm trying to do is enter an unscheduled action item to a group representing the context of where I would do the action. For example, if I at my office and I think of an action that can only be done in context of "home" I want to enter the note when I think about it and review it where I can do something about it.
<randellWe have not announced any bundle deals/plans.
<randellSteveS, point well taken (particularly in regard to Relish 2.3)
<rwhite2DoubleT, groups are a good application for that. Let me know how it works for you.
<rwhite2Steve, we'll just defer your reminders :)
<randellCic, however, let me say that we encourage people to get all the Sundial products that make sense for them to use.
<randellAnd, once you buy one (or more) of our products, we don't charge you an-arm-and-a-leg every time an upgrade comes along.
<randellSo the cost of ownership of our products generally turns out to be quite reasonable.
<ceewunMesa is worth every penny.. sorry....cent...
<CicI know but as a marketing specialist, I always think about boosting sales, you know ?[;-)
<ceewunso buy some SD apps, then cic ;-)
<IcemanAnd at least the upgrades aren't every month like all the Office bug-fixes...
<randellCic, send me mail and I'll explain some of our rationale in more detail... I'd appreciate your comments/thougths
<SteveSRollin, it seems that you have already been doing a good job at defering some Relish items!
<rwhite2Just the ones that have your name on them :)
<randellI'll repeat what I've said for years... "we will ship no software before it's time"
<IcemanAnd that's what makes it the best around...
<jdkulpI have to sign off real soon. Is there any other Mesa related questions or comments?
<Cicrandell: o.k. for the mail and thoughts, I have a bank account in germany and one in New-York....... just kidding.[;-)
<StevenLJust, thanks for all the good work.
<ceewunyes.. how about a switch so a sheet will load in the current Mesa open ?
<randellAs Dan says, we need to wrap this up soon... one last call for questions...
<ceewun...if launched, say, from the command line...
<IcemanDan, Keep it up, it's the only spreadsheet program that runs on my 486!
<jdkulpGood suggestion. I'll add it to the wish list.
<DoubleTAre you guys working on syncing Relish with the Palm Pilot devices?
<rwhite2We're working on it, yes.
<randellThanks Dan...
<DoubleTrwhite2: Need a beta tester :)?
<jdkulpYou're welcome. And thanks everyone for all the good comments and very good suggestions.
<rwhite2There's a lots of people who say the same thing! I'll add your name to the list. (Actually, send me a message to relish@sundialsystems.com and I'll add your name).
<ceewunthanks for the great apps!
<jdkulpGood night everyone!
<randellceewun, thank *you* one and all... it's feedback/comments from everyone that help make the products better and better.
<randellNight Dan.
<DoubleTrwhite: Will do!
<CicRandell; BTW what is your e-mail address ?
<ceewunCheers all... 03:00 here !!
<randellCic, use randell@sundialsystems.com.
<rwhite2you can reach any SundialFold with firstname@sundialsystems.com
<CicTHANKS!! Vielen dank!!! Merci!!!
<randellOne last call folks... and then we are out of here...
<IcemanJust out of curiosity, how many people are involved with Sundial as far as development goes?
<randellIceman, essentially 4 plust parts of others...
<CicHey! You have spare parts.[;-)
<randellParts, is parts, is parts...
<madodelJust a note that VOICE will have Brad Wardell here on June 14th. If anyone is interested. And Sundial will be back in two months.
<BlackbirdSector ceewun was not referring to a computer....WU"
<randellThanks, folks, for having us. See you all again in early August when (keeping fingers crossed) we'll have something new to talk about as well.
<SectorWU=Work Unit
<BlackbirdYes but how do you get one slowly
<ceewuncheers, randell et al... thanks again for a great product..
<SectorThe server is slow
<madodelNow Judy shows up
<mandiedid I miss the entire session :(
<DaveWgtmadodel - we post logs for the speakups?
<IcemanThanks then Sundial, keep up the good work, eh?
<ceewunyup... boy was it good...
<mandieI just got one system up and 2 more to go
<DoubleTI want to notify any OS2VOICE personel that I joined Voice tonight (submitted the credit card $ to BMT Micro) and attended the chat. How do I get my free DTB (desktop backup) from Pillarsoft? I love free stuff :).
<mandieceewun :P :P :P :)
<CicThank you Randell and all you folks ! See you soon and keep up the good work. Ciao!
<SectorA log will be available from the VOICE website
<rwhite2Thanks guys!
<mandieDoubltT: I'd like to notify them of the same :)
<AbraxasDoubleT I have to do likewise :-)))
<ceewun"Oh Mandy... you came and I'd better stop right there"
<rwhite2Hi mandie, goodnight mandie!
<randellNight all..
<rwhite2I need to eat.
<ceewun([sung to the big nosed singer...whasisname)
<MADEZIRCDaveWgt: there will be a log on the VOICE site tomorrow
<DoubleTThanks Sundial Systems folk!