SpeakUp with Serenity Systems (Topic: eComStation) from 07/03/2000

<WarpedOS2 Bob, do you have a kit for purchase to try out you serenity package..?
<BobStJohn WarpedOS2 Do you mean something like a WiseManager Evaluation Kit .. ? Sure do. But we only provide it to qualified computer professionals ... costs $195. Requires the users to have Warp Server and OS/2 licenses. Includes a WiseManager with support for one server and one domain, WiseServer, and support for five WiseClients. It would not have eCS .. because that would be like the requirement to already have the client OS license.
<WarpedOS2 Yes, I believe that would be it?
<Ltning BobStJohn: I can present a WSeB licence and about 15 Warp4 licences.. does that help?
<BobStJohn WarpedOS2 Send an email to info@serenity-systems.com reequesting a channel partner log on .. and you will be able to order one. Chris Stumpf has been using the kit for awhile .. has even had some refreshes.
<cstumpf That I have, works great except for the FTP based update system.
<WarpedOS2 Ok, I will do that, what is you definition of a computer professional
<BobStJohn Ltning Help what? Get the eval kit? The eval kit is not intended for users. It is intended to help consultants get familiar with the products. However, if you are a user and you want to evaluate the product .. I would consider it .. but the eval kit maxes out at five clients. To support all 15 you would need to upgrade to the Small and Medium Business (SMB) product.
<Ltning BobStJohn: Only for evaluation now.. And it would be for company use/evaluation
<BobStJohn cstumpf I think we'll be going to a new "host" for some software updates and downloads .. to support some of the software subscription features.
<WarpedOS2 I support 1000 wkstns with Netware 5.1 servers but am looking for a better software deployment and control
<Sector Well, hasn't "officialy" started yet...
<BobStJohn WarpedOS2 How many servers?
<WarpedOS2 17 servers
<Ltning woha
<BobStJohn We have a WiseManager and WiseServer Enterprise. No limit on the number of servers, domains, or users. But the Enterpise products are custom. They are built for the specific user.
<Ltning Any OS/2 clients/servers among those?
<WarpedOS2 Nope....no warp clients but the smaller networks I would like try wisemanager ....etc as a test pilot for now, I am a Netware Engineer and have use Warp since 2.0
<cstumpf Wow, that's a pretty good sized site. I'd love to get a piece of that action.
<BobStJohn WiseManager is an OS/2 application and will not be migrated. WiseServer runs on Warp Server, any version, and we will probably support other servers .. no rush. WS is the best server available. Clients .. we are looking at multiple ways to support Windows and Linux.
<BobStJohn But first ... eCS .. that will be a great client.
<WarpedOS2 So will this kit show me how this works?
<BobStJohn Well, yes.
<WarpedOS2 ok, but the clients MUST be Warp correct?
<BobStJohn You can also go to the web site .. on the left banner there is a Managed Client Library "button" .. go there and the first document is a WiseManager Eval kit document. Lots of info about how the product works in that document.
<BobStJohn Today, that's true.
<BobStJohn WarpedOS2 Sorry .. today, the clients are OS/2.
<WarpedOS2 ok...
<WarpedOS2 Does it give any control or software support to the winos2 in warp
<cstumpf You have complete control over installing anything to an OS/2 or eCS desktop, even dos or WinOS2 apps.
<BobStJohn At WarpTech we demoed a Win9X managed client, thanks to the work of Micho Durdevich. He has a web site that describes how to rpl win9X off Warp Server. He will be working with us to integrate that function to WiseManager, including drag and drop software deployment.
<WarpedOS2 Ok, that really interests me alot, the smaller networks would I believe really benefit from that setup.
<cstumpf I'm in the middle of setting up my server to run Win98 as a diskless client. It's not exactly simple to setup, but once it is done, it removes a major problem of Windows eating itself alive.
<BobStJohn Whoa, whoa, whoa ... yeeeeh, Joachim!!!
<BobStJohn That would be Joachim of Mensys, our European distributor.
<Joachim Yes it would!
<WarpedOS2 But so would the larger ones as well, right now we use ZEN for networks, but it deploys software but you can't remove it centerally, it is a distributed environment not server centric
<cstumpf At the very worst, you can restore the files from backup and reboot the client and be back in business, plus users can't install software.
<cstumpf Wisemanager makes adding or removing software drag-n-drop simple.
<BobStJohn BTW, Chris Stumpf is one of our Channel Partners .. and very familiar with what we are doing. Obviously.
<WarpedOS2 Bob what does it take to be a channel partner?
<BobStJohn WarpedOS2 Essentially, it takes having OS/2 and Warp Server skills and a business model of providing fee services to end user organizations.
<Joachim Yes i recognize the name, Chris.
<cstumpf Yes, we met in atlanta, georgia at warpstock.
<Joachim I remember ;-)
<BobStJohn There is no investment for the basic level, which carries some product discounts. Discounts on products go up with other levels, but they do require investment. Those levels also provide some NFR software. You have reminded me that I need to update that page on my site.
<WarpedOS2 Bob, well I have all the network skills from training from Netware, I use Warp server in my office but not on the main network. My office is two warp wkstns and on WSEB I upgraded to WSEB just because I have IBMS developer pack
<BobStJohn Joachim Well, it's supposed to start in about 20 minutes .. so thisis the 'warm up'. ;-)
<BobStJohn Well, I'm always in "recruit" mode. If you are interested, send an email to info@serenity-systems.com and I'lls end you an email on selling managed clients as a services opportunity.
<Fuzy|ogic There is a really nifty feature of SDD that let it import a monitor.inf file for windows in order to set the frequency for my monitor... That's pretty cool! I wasn't sure how I was going to do it otherwise since my monitor wasn't in the database.
<DCasey So ... did I sxrew up the timezone conversion?
<Abys afaik not
<Sector Err well seems we just sorta started early...
<Fuzy|ogic Did I land in the middle of a meeting? If so, I'll stop spouting non-sequitors...
<DCasey Not scheduled to start for another 8 minutes or so ... but we aren't picky around here :-)
<Fuzy|ogic Oh... I had no idea. Glad I was around..
<WarpedOS2 Hi Bob, just wanted to let you know that I am from Canada, no one has ever heard of serenity systems with a RPL(future) win9X client.
<BobStJohn madodel forwarned is pointless to the incorrigible
<BobStJohn WarpedOS2 Well .. we just demoed the prototype at WarpTech .. and we are working with the developer, Micho Durdevich .. very nice guy, to turn it in to a real product. And I hope we will have a Canadian distributor on board at the end of the week. Those will help.
<WarpedOS2 Bob.....great, the money exchange is not good and if you have a CA distributor that helps in the exchange. Can I still purchase the kit from you?
<BobStJohn WarpedOS2 Sure ... you can order it with a credit card on our site and it will be sent to you.
<MADodel Well if you guys would stop using that funny looking stuff with the pictures on it, then it might be worth something. ;-)
<WarpedOS2 Ok, thanks...must run....
<BobStJohn OK .. are we starting?
<Sector Sounds like a good idea to me
<BobStJohn I'm going to make this opening remark. Serenity Systems is about Managed Clients and CTI. But today, the focus is Managed Clients. eComStation is our response to what we see as the desktop PC opportunity which is evolving because of the increased influence of the Internet.
<BobStJohn eComStation will be the first product to implement the concept of a Mobile Managed Client, a managed client which does not require a constant network connection.
<BobStJohn We plan to announce the eCS product this week and expect to start shipping the base eCS product by the end of the month, the SMP and JFS feature products will ship in the end of August. We have some dependencies on IBM to meet those dates.
<BobStJohn There will be an eCS upgrade from Merlin until Feb 1, 2001
<BobStJohn We will sell through a network of distributors, Indelible Blue in the US, Mensys in Europe, Orion Solutions in Australia, Mati in Mexico and Latin America .. and we hope to have a Canadian distributor in Toronto by the end of the week.
<BobStJohn Now .. I'd like you folks to steer the conversation .. I'm the marketing half of the equation .. and I'll do my best .. but some questions will be deferred to email with Kim, or posting on our eGroups fourm.
<cstumpf Or, I could try to answer them if I can, that is if Bob doesn't mind.
<BobStJohn And now persell is here to keep me honest. ;o)
<crimso BobStJohn: Can you tell us what exactly is contained in eCom? You mentioned SMP and JFS in a seperate product above...
<Fuzy|ogic What is different in managing the client that allows it to be Mobile?
<BobStJohn madodel Chris .. sure. He is a Channel Partner and has experience with the product. He can speak as an "expert witness".
<BobStJohn Fuzy|ogic The ability to use local resource for software installation or booting as the user requires. But when the network link is available, it is managed just like it's diskless rpl cousing. It woudl be implementing a local FIT table.
<BobStJohn Fuzy|ogic Essentially, when it was connected, it would have the ability for the server to update the entire desktop.
<Fuzy|ogic So, the server has tasks that queue up waiting for the client to connect?
<Fuzy|ogic Or does the client simply make requests?
<BobStJohn Fuzy|ogic An example I used in the eZine interview was the ability of Indelible Blue to actually install products ordered by users .. not download them, but install them as though they were there, complete with icon on the desktop.
<Fuzy|ogic Ah.... So I would NEVER have to leave my cave! Lovely!
<BobStJohn Fuzy|ogic I would expect both .. much like MQseries .. see what is new and different and update .. although some things, in a manner like the iNotes plugins, would wait for a connection to execute.
<cstumpf As far I know, it is from the server side, although Bob's example blurs things a little bit because a user could go to IB's website and buy a program and it would be downloaded and installed automatically.
<Fuzy|ogic hm.. Is this a service IB plans to offer? This type of remote support?
<BobStJohn cstumpf What I was thinking is .. the order is made, IB, using WiseManager, does a drag and drop onto the user folder to deploy the purchased application.
<cstumpf Agreed, but from what Kim has told me, I don't see why such an action could not be automated with scripts.
<BobStJohn Fuzy|ogic In line with that, we are putting IBM's remote control software, Desktop on Call, into the product .. this would facilitate the ability to provide remote services and support ..as well as the ability to control your own machine from any (authorized) machine that had a java enabled browser
<BobStJohn cstumpf Kim would know .. I was more concerned with the what than the how.
<cstumpf Or from a Java Applet Reference object without a browser.
<DSOMber1 cstumpf - Perhaps with REXX...
<Fuzy|ogic Wow. Very nice.
<cstumpf DTOC even has an automatic html interface to make accessing multiple machines easier. You can even have it use your own html pages.
<BobStJohn Fuzy|ogic Yeah. I'm thinking .. you run HOUSE/2 at home, get some TV support from Hauppauge .. and you can sit in your office, operate your home PC with eCS .. and turn things on and off, have a look around. Even put in some sensors or use the cameras as motion sensors ... look in at the house when you are travelling.
<cstumpf that is a very good use. Could even find out if the kids are having an unauthorized party while you are away.
<BobStJohn cstumpf or if the neighbor is watering the plants ..like she promised.
<Fuzy|ogic Hmm.. Well, when the Crusoe chip is available in OS/2 ready laptops, perhaps I'll put that to the test.
<Abys the question what is contained in eCS is still unanswered
<cstumpf You don't need to wait, DTOC is accessible via any web browser with java 1.1 support.
<BobStJohn but I would rather talk about the larger picture .. how eCS and managed clients can effect the ability to run Internet enabled business desktop computing. That's what we wexpect to be big in the next two years.
<BobStJohn Abys Short answer is OS/2 based on Convenience Pak, WiseClient, and Desktop on-Call. Over time, this will be extended to include support for local FIT.
<Joachim Internet apps: ThinkFree would be a nice example!
<cstumpf Joachim, how was dinner?
<BobStJohn Abys Additional packaging is available, but I'm really looking for distributors to address those needs.
<Fuzy|ogic As an aside, will the Convenience Pack be OS/2 with FP14?
<Joachim Dinner was great, now all i need is my coffee :-)
<Joachim Right, Abys, and that would be us... Indelible, Mati, Mensys etc.
<BobStJohn Abys from a development standpoint, we are looking at pre-execution boot services, rpl support on peer networks, booting over the Inet, enhancements to the current rpl processes.
<Abys big plans...
<BobStJohn Fuzy|ogic You can go to IBM's web site to read about the convenience pak. Short answer is, our original proposal to IBM was for a client using the files in WSeb .. they persauded us to wait and use Convenience Pak. That was the right thing to do.
<JT^ Target schedules?
<MADodel But CP's are only to be released once a year
<BobStJohn Abys We are very serious about this. The more we worked on support for other client workstations, the more we came to appreciate what we have in OS/2. Doesn't mean we can get it all done immediately, but there is clearly opportunity here.
<MADodel WSeB will have continued stream of FP's
<Joachim WSeB *needs* some too...
<BobStJohn CPs are part of Software Choice, now. To get enhancements to eCS, including those enhancements IBM releases through Software Choice, you would need a subscription with one of the distributors .. and after Feb 1, 2001 .. that would include fixpacks.
<MADodel You said you would be basing eCS on the CP. I took that to mean that that is how updates to the OS would continue to be applied
<Lokutos Did you have problems with bugs in the OS/2 versions that you used to build your product and how did IBM support you ?
<BobStJohn JT^ for all the enhancements? I can't answer that yet. Some of that answer depends on the response to eCS over the next two months. The stronger the response, the easier it is to deliver enhancements. But there will be new things delivered before the end of the year.
<MADodel Will eCS be independent of the CP for future updates then?
<BobStJohn madodel Not always clear to me what IBM is doing .. but much of what I would expect to see in next year's Convenience Pak is likely to be available as features on Software Choice .. the additional features and fixpacks, etc would be packaged into a refresh called Convenience Pak.
<BobStJohn madodel eCS will have enhancements in addition to Software Choice and Convenience Pak.
<Fuzy|ogic I can't seem to find any Convenience Pack info at IBM... And Warpcast is down at the moment...
<MADodel What I want to know is how updates to the base OS under eCS will be managed.
<BobStJohn Fuzy|ogic Look at the Announcement letter from April 11 .. maybe some other links would be there.
<DSOMber1 Announcement Letter (USA) - Convenience Packages
<DSOMber1 http://www2.ibmlink.ibm.com/cgi-bin/master?xh=frdd4KyFVkn*pD1USenGnN9332&request=
<DSOMber1 announcements&parms=H%5f200%2d082&xhi=usa%2emain%7cannouncements%5e&xfr=N
<BobStJohn madodel Again, I'm going to point to the distributors .. but what I want them to set up is a support contract which will provide a software subscription service. When you buy the product, you register, you can buy the support contract which includes user support, it also includes a software subscription. So, you would go to their web site, or mine, enter your id and password, and download the features and enhancements.
<JT^ Any chance IB will do a warpup like service here?
<BobStJohn madodel The open switch, which I don't plan on controlling, is .. do the distributors sell the subscription independent of the service and support contract .. or as one product. I prefer it be one product.
<DCasey DSOMber1 and easier link to the announcement letter is: http://www.warpdoctor.org/warp4refresh.html
<Joachim Bob, actually it would be like setting up our own SW Choice server, right? Plus *our* add-ons/updates...
<BobStJohn JT^ That's an IB decision .. but I would expect IB and the other distributors to use eCS to wrapper other products and services.
<cstumpf I would imagine so.
<MADodel OK so enhansements/updates/fixes will be available on a continual basis. I just don't like the CP being just once a year.
<Joachim So, if we would offer something like a userid/password accessible server with all packed on CD *twice* a year, that would be a rather good solution, Madodel?
<BobStJohn Joachim Exactly what Joachim said. Mensys would have "software choice" type section on their site .. but it would include more items that IBM's software choice .. it would be a super set, not a subset
<BobStJohn madodel Right ... delivered via the site when available. Some distributors have talked about quarterly CDs in addition to the site.
<crimso Will there be NLS? Or just US-English?
<BobStJohn crimso We would deliver in the languages supported by the Convenience Pak
<JT^ If there is value add beyond SW choice, any idea what the expected cost/yr will come out?
<BobStJohn crimso I should be careful ... not all the stuff would be avialable in all languages .. but no, not limited to US English.
<Lokutos Once again: Did you have problems with bugs in the OS/2 versions that you used to build your product and how did IBM support you ?
<Joachim Quarterly might be overdoing it, imho.
<BobStJohn JT^ Depends on what other value the distributor places into the subscription. I can't price their products.
<BobStJohn Joachim That's between you and your customers. I know you will do the right thing. :-)
<MADodel Joachim: I'm not concerned about the CD, just so long as fixes are made available as necessary
<Joachim JT^ what i expect it will be approx the same price, but with more features! Win-win ;-)
<BobStJohn Lokutos We did find some problems. IBM was very helpful. They are being very supportive.
<Lokutos Thats good to read. After all SOME ISVs reported to have problems and said, they ceased development because of lack of support
<BobStJohn Lokutos I've seen the same. But we are trying to avoid being overly dependent on IBM to do additional work, and leverage the things that they have already done, or are completely committed to doing.
<Lokutos Yes, it is a fine thing if that CAN be avoided. Would you say that your own development was more on the network part ?
<BobStJohn I appreciate that this is marketing speak .. but we can all see what is happening to the computing environment. We position eCS and WiseManager a product solution set of features which seeks to address the immediate environment, but is really targeting what we expect to see in the next 18 to 36 months.
<MADodel Do you think m$ will turn around and innovate your concept?
<BobStJohn Lokutos I would say our development, up to this point, has been on top of the IBM supplied function. However, we recognize the need to go further .. and that's the plan.
<MADodel That was a serious question BTW
<BobStJohn madodel I think that's there plan, but I don't think they can execute. They are having a lot of trouble giving up the model that made them so successful. Even so, they are heading in this direction ... but I expect we'll wait for it as long as we waited for Cairo.
<BobStJohn madodel and I expect that things like proprietory OSs will be a much diminished role in the future, anyway.
<Fuzy|ogic Cairo still managed to gum everything up for everybody else despite it's lateness...
<BobStJohn Fuzy|ogic True .. but the world has moved on wrt the pace of doing business. You can't freeze the industry like you could five years ago. e.commerce and the Internet won't tolerate it.
<Fuzy|ogic I won't argue with that.
<Joachim Cairo? Wasn't that like the merger of NT + DOS?
<MADodel You guys are out on the edge here. Sounds like you are taking it further then IBM has envisioned. m$ is still clucking about winDOS Me now. windoze2000 was supposed to be the consumer OS replacement. I think you are right, but they are still scary
<BobStJohn madodel I think we are taking it exactly where IBM envisioned.
<mandie sounds like you're within safe boundries then
<BobStJohn madodel Still a lot of DOS around. Will always be a lot of Windows around. When you talk to users, you have to talk about Windows support. You talk to consultants, you talk Linux .. want to install something that does it all ..you use OS/2 .. but
<BobStJohn Joachim I don't think Fuzzy understood.
<MADodel Will Java 1.3+ be part of eCS?
<Joachim Nope. He ran out ato buy SW Choice?
<Joachim madodel: per definition ;-)
<BobStJohn madodel but ... (yes wert of Java 1.3) we will use OS/2 as a an engine to deliver other things.
<BobStJohn Joachim if he went out to buy Software Choice, he didn't understand. eCS provides all those opportunities .. and more, for less, I would expect.
<BobStJohn Mike Persell and I were talking (over BBQ) and I maintain that the role of the OS is changing back to what it was in the '80s .. and the network is assuming the role the OS had taken on in the '90s
<MarkE Bob, how much will eCS approximately cost?
<Joachim I know that Bob. But we offerrrr sooo many good stuff! And Mike, what else will we put in the box?
<BobStJohn MarkE I can give your our SRP .. I can't tell you how the distributor will price or package.
<persell Enough to satisfy customers but not so much as to scare away developers and ISVs
<BobStJohn srp for ecs OS/2 V4 users $129 .. new users $269
<MADodel Is that per year?
<BobStJohn srp eSC SMP os/2 v4 users $249 new users $389
<BobStJohn madodel no .. these are purchase prices for the product
<MADodel Will there then be a charge for update access?
<BobStJohn srp for ecs Professional (SMP and JFS) OS/2 v4 users $359 new users $499
<RS-23 So, here in the Great White North, that $129 is approx. $189CDN. Not bad.
<MarkE That all sounds very good. Is it possible to get a eCS package that includes JFS but no SMP?
<BobStJohn And there will be a Programmer's Workbench, probably with SMP, JFS, DB2 Developers Toolkit, OS/2 Toolkit and some Visual Age products .. but I don't have that pulled together, yet.
<JT^ VA C compiler that works?
<BobStJohn madodel the updates are part of the support contracts we were talking about earlier. Need to talk to the distributor to see how they will be priced and packaged.
<BobStJohn RS-23 You may have missed it, but I hope to have a distributor in Toronto by the end of the week.
<Joachim MarkE no, that's not a valid combo.
<RS-23 BobStJohn I noticed...but we'll still have the exchange rate.
<Joachim I think Mensys will be offering preloaded SMP workstations, i've got one running myself (with WSeB) on dual Celerons. It ROCKS!
<BobStJohn MarkE The only reason we put SMP out by itself is because there is a requirement for some diskless rpl clients using SMP .. and the diskless client does need (or want to pay for) JFS
<BobStJohn does need iatr does *not* need
<BobStJohn and does not want to pay for
<BobStJohn JT^ VA C compiler .. question or comment?
<JT^ question about the Pgmmers Wkbench
<BobStJohn JT^ I've requested licensing for VA C/C++ and VA Java Professional .. some have asked for VA COBOL .. I'll look at it. But I think the thing we want to support is eCS Programmers Workbench as the premier Java development platform on Intel.
<BobStJohn JT^ or are you saying the compiler doesn't come with ...
<JT^ There have been complaints about the compiler (Sun, Bill Schindler) and I wondered if you were going
<JT^ to be able to provide fixes?
<Joachim There was some discussion about Speedsoft Sibyl. Is there any demand for that?
<MADodel VA COBOL is a very expensive product geared to the enterprise.
<BobStJohn JT^ I should be able able to .. the challenge is making sure I know enough to do the job of getting the stuff properly.
<OS2NL I see people are talking about which compiler to put with ECS
<JT^ os2nl - what compilers, etc. are in a Programmers Workbench additional product beyone eCS
<BobStJohn Part of the message about eCS is that we don't want to focus on OSs. We want to focus on the ability to deliver the desktop, programs and data, to manage operations and support, to lower costs and provide a better computing environment. Sometimes I have trouble reconciling COBOL with that message.
<crimso hm, the recent announcement of VA Java doesn't contain OS/2 in the list of supported platforms.
<JT^ some of us have had irreconcileable differences with COBOL for many years!
<BobStJohn But ... the other message wrt to eCS .. is "run your legacy apps as long as you need to ... eCS will support the legacy environment as you move into the network centric model"
<MADodel Yes, is IBM pulling out of supporting Java development on OS/2?
<cstumpf That legacy support is really key too.
<BobStJohn wrt Compilers .. make sure I have the right info and I'll see what I can do. My intent is to create a base Programmer's Workbench. When you order that, you would have the option of buying some other tools at a promotional price. But I'm early on that effort.
<Joachim Yeah. I hope they'll support NetVista all the way, so we'll *have* to get decent USB support!
<BobStJohn crimso I have to defer ... when I went to the IBM web site, OS/2 was still listed as supported
<crimso no, I ment the announcement for VA Java 3.5
<crimso there also was a message on WarpCast stating this
<persell Only Netvista box supported so far is the 2800
<cstumpf I don't know what IBM's java on OS/2 plans are, but it seems that the main reason the new java requires software choice is that it needs the new tcp/ip stack.
<Joachim persell: i really like the looks of the X40 ;-)
<persell There are more coming that look good and are good designs
<Joachim persell: i've had it in my hands! It *is* a cool device. A shame they put in only USB connectors.
<Lokutos Pleas guys, tell us what NetVista is
<persell New hardware clients for NEtwork Computing
<MADodel http://www.pc.ibm.com/ww/netvista/choose_country.html
<Lokutos thanks for the ptr. And that box is heavily using USB ?
<Joachim Lokutos: one of them. The legacy free model. It is the neatest and also rather powerfull for the price (about 2500 DM)
<BobStJohn I don't see any more questions headed my way ... I expect we will announce the product by the end of the week (I'd like to get the Canadian distribution resolved, first. eCS is expected to ship end of July, eCS SMP, eCS Professional and Programmer's Workbench in the end of August. Distributors will set up their own order process.
<Lokutos BobStJohn Will you be at Warpstock this year presenting/speaking ?
<Joachim Yeah, Bob. Will you?
<BobStJohn Lokutos I plan to attend. I think we'll work with Chris Stumpf and Indelible Blue to have an exhibit .. I don't really have a presentation .. I think I've said it all, especially to that audience. Might to a Birds of Feather if they want one. We are making plans to do WarpStock Europe.
<DSOMber1 Do wireless LAN devices support RPL?
<BobStJohn DSOMber1 I should be asking you!
<Joachim DSOMber1 ask MADwirles
<Lokutos That was my next question, as I am coordinator for exhibitors for Warpstock Europe. So have you had already contact with one of the planning team ?
<Swanee BobStJohn: Take me with you to WS Europe! I can be squeezed into a trunk!
<BobStJohn Lokutos I think Kim has been communicating .. I think he want to show eCS booting of the Inet.
<MADodel The IBM Wireless LAN ISA cards support RPL. I don't know about newer ones.
<Lokutos Yes, indeed. I was not able to link that with the product name. So perhaps you both come to join us ? would be glad to meet you.
<Joachim Swanee: trunk in airplane = no fun :-(
<DSOMber1 madodel - Interesting...
<Swanee Joachim: I'd have to wear warm clothes but I figure it would be worth it. :-)
<MADodel Swanee: That would be some big trunk
<MADodel :-)
<Joachim Swanee: i'm sure it would be worth it, because i'll be there ;-))))
<BobStJohn I would be happy to attend.
<Swanee madodel: Did you have to tell EVERYONE? :-)
<MADodel Joachim: You coming to WS2000 in Philly?
<Lokutos I answered to Kims mail: he wanted to know wehre Karlsruhe is being located and to evaluate costs. So if you want I cc to you my next mail
<Joachim madodel: i haven't checked yet, but i hope i will.
<BobStJohn We will be putting up a www.ecomstation.com .. and there will be links to the distributors. I know Joachim will have an exciting web presence. ;-)
<Joachim Thanks Bob. I hope i can live up to the expectation you just created :-)
<BobStJohn Lokutos Not necessary .. he'll keep me posted. Karshule .. the US Army still have their armored divisions there? I was in Germany in my Army stint .. too long ago to mention. Berlin and Frankfurt .. but I really liked Wiesbaden and the Rhile valley.
<BobStJohn Rhile iatr Rhine
<crimso actually Karlsruhe
<BobStJohn cr
<BobStJohn crimso sorry .. finger cjheckl ;-)
<crimso hehe
<Lokutos I don't know about the army, but yes, this region is very nice there. And the location for WSE2000 is very good - you'll love it
<DSOMber1 About eCS booting off the Inet...how would we do this securely? Tunneling via IPSec and Injoy? Or other methods SSL/SSH/PGP?
<BobStJohn DSOMber1 That's exactly the sort of question I can't answer .. Kim and others handle that ... sorry
<Joachim Lokutos: tell Kim Chueng that it's nice. He doesn't like the location.
<DSOMber1 Ah...that's ok, I'll post to the mailing list.
<Lokutos Joachim Why ? ok we'll put photos online (not of the country, but of the location for the evnet :-))
<BobStJohn Joachim Kim shouldn't worry ..it's not as though we would let him out to do anything.
<crimso joachim: it's pretty high-tech
<Joachim Bob: Yes, because he could only get a 7 day round trip. So he's stuck there for a while. I already offered him to see part of Holland.
<Joachim crimso: i heard location is nice.
<BobStJohn we should probably set up some meetings with local companies .. is Oliver Mark near there?
<Joachim crimso: i also believe it ;-)
<Lokutos Tell him that he can join a few days earlier partying with Team OS/2 :-)
<BobStJohn I don't want him to be a d*mned tourist. I want him to work, work, work. I'll take the photos and talk to the ladies.
<crimso LOL
<DSOMber1 Ah...German engineering!
<Lokutos BobStJohn That is gemutlich Germany right ? (Do you speak some german ?)
<BobStJohn cstumpf Chris is right, of course. However, I don't feel compelled to buy every painting I enjoy looking at.
<cstumpf I was just busting on you :)
<cstumpf Anyway it is extremely doubtful that I will be at Warpstock Europe.
<BobStJohn Joachim can comment on my German .. which is not probably down to ... Prima, nicht?!?!? Dufta!!!! und mensch, du bringst mir auf die palma
<Joachim Well everyone, i'm off to an appointment, see you all on eComStation at egroups!
<cstumpf Bye, Joachim
<Joachim Oh well, Bob: your German isst sehr gut eigentlich.
<DSOMber1 Later Joachim.
<Lokutos BobnStJohn Outstanding! The evening event (still looking for sponsors BTW) will be funny
<Swanee Even if you only buy a few paintings the wife tends to be concerned. I know my wife doesn't even let me date anymore. :-)
<BobStJohn yeah, yeah .. or is that Jah, Jah!
<Joachim Lokutos: are you begging here?
<Lokutos It is Ja Ja (pronounced Jah , Jah)
<Joachim Ja, and dass isst dasselbe auf hollaendisch.
<Swanee Bye Joachim, great to see you again!
<BobStJohn Well .. this is deteriorating .. and offers me the chance to get in real trouble ... so I'm going to leave soon unless someone wants to buy something?
<Lokutos Joachim Never thought of that, just want to tell people how to emphasize tehmselves at the right place :-)
* Rat-Salad is away: yard work
<BobStJohn Lokutos Well, my German was almost all "spoken" .. learned at the clubs in the evening .. I told you .. I was a young man. :-)
<Abys Joachim: what plans does Mensys have with aCS?
<Joachim I'm really off now. Tshuss!
<Buzzz b4 you leave Bob... fraid I just got here and missed the good part.. mind giving me a synopsis?
<Joachim Great plans. Why don't you ask that half an hour ago?
<Lokutos BoStJohn If you keep your promises, I would not think abnout wether people will buy; they will
<Abys busy...
<MADodel A log will be posted to the VOICE site once we expunge all the naughty stuff
<Joachim okay, really got to go!
<Abys cu!
<BobStJohn Buzzz You're so cute when you are like this .. I wish I had a camera ... what do you want to know.
<Buzzz lol
<Buzzz well... for starters, is eComStation the answer to my Warp prayers?
<BobStJohn madodel Thank you, thank you, thank you ... for your expunge
<Lokutos Ok, I think my english is not good ebnough to tell what I really meant ;-)
<Buzzz in other words... will I not have to move off OS/2??
<BobStJohn Buzzz Well, yes!
<Buzzz which I've been dreading for yrs..
<Buzzz ahhhhh :-))))0
<BobStJohn Buzzz No.
<Buzzz well then.. here's a couple more questions then..
<Buzzz first off.. I've a Warp4 liscense... how do I provide you verification?
<BobStJohn Buzzz Seriously, eCS will bring value to OS/2 users .. and we think it will enable folks to stay on legacy systems for the next five years .. and legacy systems would include anything that exists, today, ;-)
<Buzzz next question.. how and were can I buy???
<BobStJohn Buzzz That would be up to the distributor. I've suggested that an affadavit would satisfy me.
<Lokutos Have to leave now. Read you later. Bye folks
<Buzzz ohhh man.. 5 yrs!!!! w00p!!!
<Buzzz hmm.. ok.. whats the easiest way?
* Buzzz whips out credit card and waves it wildly
<BobStJohn We'll make an announcement by the end of the week. You would order from on of the distributors, Indelible Blue, Mensys, Mati, Orion Solutions .. depends on which country claims you.
<Buzzz great! I've great trust for IB
<Buzzz they've always taken good care of me, btw
<BobStJohn I was particularly happy we were able to get them engaged. They are the right people for this project.
<Buzzz ohh.. here's one more.. whats the story with Project Concord?
<Buzzz yes, I definately think that was a good move
<BobStJohn Buzzz We are discussing the design of the card now. I hope we'll be able to do something with that within 90 days.
<Buzzz wow... you guyz are amazing!
<BobStJohn Buzzz Thank you ..
<Buzzz well heck.. its true!
<BobStJohn Buzzz are you on eGroups?
<Buzzz while I'm at it... I gotta thank you for the renewed hope!
<Buzzz and at a time when things seemed darkest
<BobStJohn Buzzz the renewed hope is justified
<Buzzz no, and I"m not sure how to get there/sign up, etc
<Buzzz well Bob... IMHO only thanks to you all
<BobStJohn just go to www.egroups.com .. then sign up for ecomstation
<Buzzz and I really think you've made it possible for perhaps the first time, that os/2 in some form can be really viable
<BobStJohn but we'll also be releasing info on WarpCast and there will be a www.ecomstation.com site
<Buzzz ok, got it.. thnx
<Buzzz ok.. get WarpCast each day
<Buzzz any idea when www.ecomstation.com will be up?
<BobStJohn The site is likely to be up by the end of the week. Same with the announcement. First products ship at the end of the month and the SMP and JFS products should ship the end of next month.
<BobStJohn k
<Buzzz man.. at the risk of being repettive.. you guyz are amazing!!!
<BobStJohn kim Oh, sure ... now
<BobStJohn kim Did you find a way to lurk ... without showing up on the list?
<kim Hi everybody. I am waiting for my wife and deided to just sneak in...
<Buzzz oh.. one more Q... I've actually convinced someone to become a new user.. do you recommend buying Warp 4 then getting eComStation, or just going straight to that?
<kim oopss.. there goes the honk. Bye.
<DSOMber1 That was brief.
<BobStJohn It would be cheaper to start with the eCS new user product. That would be $269 SRP .. the upgrade is $129 .. so he would be paying first for Warp 4, then $129. ... a lot would depend on what price he can get Warp 4 ...for
<Buzzz I see...
<BobStJohn DSOMber1 I'd make a remark .. but he might see it in the log. ;-)
<Buzzz thanx again soooo very much Bob! and best of luck with the new products!
<BobStJohn Buzzz Thank you. I appreciate your support.
<Buzzz well you've got it in spades!
<DSOMber1 Fair enough, BobStJohn...that's good judgement. :-)
<Buzzz and I intend to pass the word to the best of my ability
<BobStJohn DCasey and madodel Thanks you for your hospitality. I guess we'll see what happens next week.
<Buzzz oh.. just thot of another Q..
<BobStJohn Oh yeah .. and not to forget Swanee .. even though he apparently forgot ..me
<MADodel Everyone please feel free to stop into #voice anytime. And remember we will be doing this again Next Monday at 8PM EDT 00:00GMT
<BobStJohn buzz fire when ready
<Buzzz will it be nescessary to pay for all of WSEB to have SMP support? I've 2 dual CPU machines..
<Swanee And how could I forget? :-)
* Swanee is just a little late getting everywhere these days. :-)
<Sector Situation normal
<Abys BobStJohn Thanks!
<BobStJohn Buzzz No, the ecS SMP product (upgrade from Merlin) is $249. The eCS Professional, which is SMP and JFS is $359 .. those are SRP .. IB might do better.
<Buzzz wow... fantastic...
<Swanee Thank you so much for being with us today Bob. To everyone else, remember to tell your friends that Bob will be with us again next monday evening covering eComStation once again and any new developments between now and then.
<Buzzz I thank you once again!
<BobStJohn Well, I've been part of the OS/2 community a long time. And I really think we can start something here that we can build on ...
<Sector BobStJohn, thanks for stopping in and having this chat
<Buzzz I think _YOU_ have Bob!
<BobStJohn My pleasure .. thanks for having me ... now I'll go play with the kiddos, adios
<Buzzz BobStJohn is god!
<Buzzz lol
<DSOMber1 He really pulls the plug fast.....
<Buzzz he don't mess around
<DSOMber1 When he says he's gone....he's really gone.
<Buzzz lol
<DSOMber1 Ok, what's the plan...are we going to stick around?
<Buzzz I guess I won't... (supposed to be working lol)
<Buzzz cya all around...
<Buzzz and thanx!
<Sector Bye Buzzz
<Buzzz bye Sector
<DSOMber1 Hello kim.
<kim Am I on?
<DSOMber1 BobStJohn left a few mins ago.
<MADodel kim: I thought you were honked?
<DSOMber1 Yes, kim...we can see you.
<kim I asked my wife to get some take out for lunch...:=)
<DSOMber1 Ah...eating at the keyboard?
<kim So, looks like Persell is here?
<kim Or eat the keyboard...
<kim ...that's if we don't sell enough eCS...
<MADodel quite a few left when Bob left
<DSOMber1 persell is around here...maybe away from keyboard.
<MADodel From what Bob tells us that shouldn't be a problem.
<kim He always think so...
<MADodel you could smack him and see if he wakes up
<kim He's the marketeer...I am the actual salesman, you know...
<kim So, what did he promised?
<DSOMber1 I asked Bob a question but he said that you are better prepared to answer it....
<WarpHoss the sun the moon the stars is what he promised :)
<DSOMber1 About eCS booting off the Inet...how would we do this securely? Tunneling via IPSec and Injoy? Or other methods SSL/SSH/PGP?
<kim Have no idea yet.
<kim Don't assume I am the "true" techkie. I just do telephones.
<DSOMber1 Ok, kim...no problem. Inform us at your earliest convenience.
<MADodel Isn't there tunneling support built in to TCP/IP 4.1+?
<kim Yep.
<kim There are a number of issues to resolve. Got to do it one step at a time.
<DSOMber1 madodel - I believe so.
<kim The main issue is to reduce boot time.
<kim Several minutes on every boot might not be acceptable.
<kim Got to cut that down to less than a minute.
<kim Then we can think about security.
<MADodel What happened to 29 seconds? Or are you speaking of the MMC?
<kim With RIPL, we can cut that down to 12 seconds, actually. DHCP is not going to be that.
<MADodel What is the difference if any between RIPL and RPL?
<kim Same.
<MADodel My IBM Wireless LAN cards support RPL. Will they work with eCS?
<DSOMber1 In the case of an INET booted client...I guess there would be advantages to using a local swap path?
<kim Don't get confused between eCS and remote boot.
<kim eCS can work with or without remote boot.
<kim With INet booted client, you definitely will need a local swap - I think.
<MADodel I thought they were the same. I thought MMC was a subset
<MADodel That didn't require RPL
<kim That's why I said it can work with or without remote boot.
<kim Looks like everybody left.
<MADodel I have a question
<kim Okay?
<MADodel Bob tells us that eCS will be based on Warp4 with the Convenience Pack. But that isn't do out til November.
<MADodel Yet eCS is promised for july how does that work?
<kim I thought we were very clear on that already, no?
<MADodel Enlighten me
<kim Bob had said in his interview with OS2 eZine that we don't want to wait. That's why we annouced the preview version.
<kim For people that have remote boot capability, we can actually ship right away.
<kim But for people that don't have RPL, we are going to create a preview CD and ship that.
<kim The requirement is that when the actual product come out, you will HAVE to replace it with the real thing.
<MADodel OK, I read the article, but didn't commit it to memory. :-)
<kim For non-remote booted stations, we have no way of "hecking" together a presentable installation program. We have to wait for IBM to deliver something to us before I can actually ship something.
<kim And "waiting" for IBM is not always the fun part of this business, of course.
<kim Ar, my lunch arrived. Keep talking guys.
<MADodel OK what shal we chat about?
<kim Anybody tried the XWorkPlace?
<DSOMber1 Ok, so the product available at the end of the month can be considered preview and will ship with a less than perfect installer from the point of view of local boot?
<kim Bob won't let me ship anything that has a "less than perfect installer"
<MADodel There is a review of XWorkplace 9.0.3 in the July VOICE Newsletter
<pdxPengui argh does that mean we need!! WM to install till after preview
<pdxPengui but what does perfect mean
<kim Well, "perfect" in that sense that you don't have to take a "backuped" image of what I have
<kim sitting on my hard disk and do a "restore" onto your harddisk.
<kim If I were to ship something now, that's the "install"er for you.
<MADodel Can I download it? :-)
<kim Ha, ha, ha...
<kim On the bright side, I walked in the door this morning and that's a package sitting there waiting for me - from IBM.
<DSOMber1 Hungry for code...are we? :-)
<MADodel How large are we talking compared wit hWarp 4 GA?
<kim I gave Glenn the package and kept working. Some 5 minutes later, I look up, and the screen he was working on have something on it that looked like a ..... (cough, cough, cough)
<MADodel They send you a preview of windoze Me?
<kim "windoze Me"?
<MADodel That is the name for m$'s "last" update to winDOS
<MADodel "windows Me" actually, but I have a hard time spelling that word
<kim Okay. Let me take a look here.....nop. No winDOS. Have an ICON that looks the same as the LVM icon on my WSeB machine...
<DSOMber1 Windows Millenium Edition (ME?)
<kim And it has a folder that says "OS/2 Peer"...
<MADodel Is eCS going to be using LVM?
<kim LVM is listed in IBM's Convenence Pak.
<kim Mmm....looks like there is no VoiceType, no Bonus Pak, no OpenDOC, no WarpGuide, ...
<DCasey Yep .. it is .. I was just looking at that
<kim I wonder how Glenn created this machine....
<MADodel LVM does not play nice with NT. Will eCS MMC be able to multiple boot with other operating systems?
<kim I don't have access to NT. You guys would have to find out.
<MADodel OpenDOC is dead. Will you be shipping SO 5.1a in place of Bonus Pak?
<kim "In place"? Nobody wants anything in the Bonus Pak?
<MADodel I can send you a copy of Nt 4. I have two that are unused
<MADodel I haven't used a BP app version in years.
<DCasey neither have I
<MADodel I have the full versions of most of the items and I never used IBM Works
<DCasey Not since I upgraded Faxworks lite
<kim I rather have somebody else do the NT part.
<kim Last 5 minutes. Got to go.
<MADodel I gave up on NT, I got tired of saying how stupid it was.
<DCasey Thanks for dropping in, kim
<DCasey don't be a stranger :-)
<DSOMber1 Thanks Kim...
<kim Don't tell that to ...I won't say who. Just drove him nuts over the weekend.
<kim Bye. Guys.
<DCasey Cya, kim
<Sector Bye kim ,thanks for stopping bye