VOICE - General Meeting for 2003-07-19

<WalterOS2> This meeting of VOICE is now in order.
<WalterOS2> Ken, will you take the log, please?
<KenKrchnr> Got it.
<WalterOS2> Thx
<eCSNL> First question, I gues Treasurer has not been able to send a financial report in time. I understood he was going on vacation ?
<WalterOS2> Lately, I've been connecting directly to Jeremy's site I've had less trouble with disconnects, but you never know. :-)
<WalterOS2> He was here this week, and I asked him for a report yesterday, but got no response. :-(
<WalterOS2> here=home
<eCSNL> So point 2a is scrapped from the Agenda I presume ?
<WalterOS2> Looks like.
<WalterOS2> 2b:
<WalterOS2> From what Ken has told, VOICE2 has been running (in parallel) for some time.
<KenKrchnr> Yes, about 6 weeks now.
<WalterOS2> Doug is going to start running Warpdoctor in parallel on a server at his home this weekend, and see if he can keep it running for a couple of weeks.
<Rat-Salad> from what I have worked with VOICE2... it is running great
<WalterOS2> That's good to here.
<WalterOS2> here=hear
<WalterOS2> :-)
<KenKrchnr> This morning I changed out our firewall, and updated Apache to 2.0.47.
<KenKrchnr> 2.0.46 seemed to have some connection delay problems, but 47 seems good.
<WalterOS2> I've sent in a fax to start the process of changing the domain account info for os2voice.org and os2voice.com.
<Rat-Salad> so the 1.0 series is running well
<Rat-Salad> err 2.0
<WalterOS2> They haven't responded yet, though.
<Rat-Salad> umm I'm sorry Walter
<Rat-Salad> I have access to everything now
<Rat-Salad> I can change anything with the domains.. I got Abel's management passwords
<WalterOS2> rs: for network solutions?
<Rat-Salad> I apologize for the lack of communication the past couple of weeks
<Rat-Salad> yes sir.. for network solutions, and names4ever
<WalterOS2> rs: I asked anyone who had contacted them to post a message on admin.
<Rat-Salad> I'm sorry
<Rat-Salad> the past couple of weeks have been busy
<Rat-Salad> but that's no excuse I know
<WalterOS2> ken, do you remember who we decided at warpdoctor to list as the primary contact and technical contact?
<WalterOS2> Of os2voice?
<KenKrchnr> We need to setup a pseudo name.
<KenKrchnr> Make up a name (like noc@os2voice.com), then we can give whoever needs access the name/password.
<WalterOS2> That was because we didn't have access. But apparently we do.
<KenKrchnr> You need a valid email address, but not a real name.
<KenKrchnr> It would still be desirable to have tech be pseudo. That way you avoid having the same situation in the future.
<WalterOS2> RatSalad: In the fax I sent in I had to affirm that I had the authority to make changes to the account, and that I was the President.
<KenKrchnr> Make admin "president@os2voice.com" (or org), setup so that admin can change tech if necessary, but tech can't change admin.
<WalterOS2> That is sort of what we agreed on.
<WalterOS2> Pseudo names don't real help. If a person leaves VOICE, more often than not, his email becomes either bad or useless because the person may not respond for a very long time if at all.
<WalterOS2> Multiple people is a better option IMO.
<WalterOS2> real=really
<KenKrchnr> That's why you need the pseudo. It's not tied to any one person. And if that person leaves, you can change the password without a lot of trouble. The organization is protected that way.
<KenKrchnr> for example,
<KenKrchnr> if tech is "noc", email "noc@os2voice.org", noc password is given to (sample) Jeremy, Hoss, Mark, Walter. -
<KenKrchnr> If one of those people leaves, admin (President) can change the password and give the new password to those left.
<KenKrchnr> (Or tech can change the password if in time)
<WalterOS2> I can live with that.
<KenKrchnr> It won't matter who leaves, the email is tied to the org, not the person.
<WalterOS2> Except, what the heck is "noc"?
<WalterOS2> :-)
<KenKrchnr> Noc stands for Network Operations Center ;-)
<WalterOS2> OK
<KenKrchnr> And we'd probably end up as something like noc88754 or so, most ISP's use a similar arrangement.
<WalterOS2> You're confusing and email address with a user account.
<KenKrchnr> I just meant if we wanted to use "noc" for NS userid.
<WalterOS2> I'm pretty sure noc@os2voice.org is unique; that's all they would care about.
<KenKrchnr> That should work fine.
<WalterOS2> The way Network Solutions works it is once they've "processed" the fax, they'll send me a "secure" email, and I've got 48 hours to respond and setup the account with the new information (including the passwords).
<WalterOS2> The only information we're concerned about at this time is the primary or "admin" contact.
<KenKrchnr> Yes, if I remember, that's wrook.
<WalterOS2> After that, I/we can do the rest my/ourselves.
<WalterOS2> Jeremy, if you would like to email me the current password, I can use that if you like.
<WalterOS2> Once it's all done, I'll email to Mark, Ken, and you.
<WalterOS2> email it.
<Rat-Salad> I can send all the account information.. or I can do anything that needs to be done upon request.. whatever suites you best
<WalterOS2> It's better if you send it just me first because we won't know what the information actually is, until everything's been accepted by their system.
<WalterOS2> send it=send it to
<Rat-Salad> ok.. I will get it to you then
<WalterOS2> Thx :-)
<WalterOS2> I think we sort of jumped into 2c. back there somewhere. :-)
<WalterOS2> Ken or Jeremy: Is there any other stuff under 2c. that we didn't already talk about?
<KenKrchnr> Nothing big. Jeremy setup the nameserver stuff so we're now independent of IW.
<KenKrchnr> Has anybody noticed a difference?
<WalterOS2> What kind of difference?
<KenKrchnr> Any problems accessing or the like.
<WalterOS2> The data files are still on IW, aren't they?
<KenKrchnr> Yes, but voice doesn't use their nameservers anymore.
<WarpedOS2> will the response times be better if for mail doing DNS lookups?
<WalterOS2> No access problems, though.
<WalterOS2> Hello WarpedOS2
<WarpedOS2> hi Walter
<KenKrchnr> Response times shouldn't really be affected for mail. Where do you see a problem?
<WarpedOS2> I am thinking more for the spam lookups? from orb
<KenKrchnr> That's more a function of ordb's database response time. The time to lookup the ordb address is nil, it's waiting for them to lookup the address in their database that takes the time .
<WarpedOS2> It still has to do a DNS lookup for the site...and if the nameserver is slow then latency will come into play and then Weasel will automatically label email as spam
<WarpedOS2> I switched our Nameserver for our own internal for the school division and I was able to resolve that issue,
<WalterOS2> What do you mean, "Weasel will automatically label email as spam" because of latency?!
<KenKrchnr> That's not ordb though, that's reverse dns lookup to validate a connecting host. That would improve.
<WarpedOS2> good
<WarpedOS2> Yes I know it is not orb...it is the nameserver
<WalterOS2> OK, 2d. Other Business
<WalterOS2> Is there any other business?
<WarpedOS2> What about giving www.os2voice.org a face lift...
<WarpedOS2> how old is that webpage...sheesh
<WalterOS2> I don't if Jeremy has the time.
<WarpedOS2> It seems to be as old warp 3
<WalterOS2> He'd have to delegate it to someone else. :-)
<WarpedOS2> a new format would be nice
<WalterOS2> This has been brought up before, and FWIW I think it's a great idea.
<Rat-Salad> well.. I can get to a redesign in time
<WarpedOS2> what if I find a fellow to do it and he could adverstise his webmaster services for free ....
<WarpedOS2> not sure he would do it but it would be worth a try
<Rat-Salad> sorry.. I was away from the computer.. had a minor electrical problem here :)
<WalterOS2> However, we would want to be compatible with as many browsers as possible, including WE and the text ones.
<WarpedOS2> exactly
<WarpedOS2> walter
<eCSNL> Are you not giving your self a headache supporting
<eCSNL> WE ?
<eCSNL> Are there still people out there using it ?
<WalterOS2> You betcha.
<WarpedOS2> who?
<WalterOS2> Not me, but I know others are.
<eCSNL> There crazy!
<Rat-Salad> as long as it supports tables I can make a compatible website...
<WarpedOS2> I second it
<eCSNL> You can't view ONE webpage with that piece of antique!
<Rat-Salad> tables mean EVERYTHING
<KenKrchnr> Forget 'em, we need lots of MS FrontPage stuff, and Flash 6, Real audio and video..... gd&rfc ;-)
<WarpedOS2> WE won't do PHP though
<eCSNL> I think that will be a problem...
<WarpedOS2> what forget fp....PHP is the way to go
<eCSNL> I don't use PHP
<eCSNL> But Joachim at Mensys uses PHP for a lot of things...
<Rat-Salad> fp? what's that?
<Rat-Salad> hehe
<Rat-Salad> personal.. I still with good ole HTML for as much as possible
<WarpedOS2> we dont' support ASP stuff do we???????
<WalterOS2> You can see that web site tools are a hot topic!!
<eCSNL> Its what I understand from him PHP is something you can not live with out....
<WarpedOS2> exactly eCSNL
<eCSNL> Supporting Netscape no problem...
<WarpedOS2> are we promoting an uptodate OS or something from the early 90's
<eCSNL> Although I can tell you Netscape 4.61 is also a realy running out gas
<WalterOS2> There are still a lot of sites that only NS can read.
<Rat-Salad> Vaughn.. I believe Ken was talking tongue in cheek :)
<WarpedOS2> OH ok...hehehe
<eCSNL> WalterOS2 which website is that ?
<eCSNL> Netscape is good at hanging the PMSHELL
<eCSNL> And EXTREMELY slow page rendering....
<WarpedOS2> comeon guys....we need to focus on IE and mozilla...browsers and some backward compa... for netscape..
<WalterOS2> eCSNL: Tried accessing the IBM ftp sites with Mozilla or IWB lately?
<WalterOS2> hehe
<WarpedOS2> works for me Walter...but I use mozilla firebird
<WalterOS2> IBM Web browser
<WarpedOS2> have you read the latest? http://www.mozilla.org/projects/firebird/why/
<WarpedOS2> and all the awards Mozilla is winning?
<WarpedOS2> here is a good article... http://www.salon.com/tech/col/leon/2002/03/12/mozilla/index.html
<eCSNL> I'm afraid the time to support WE is over.... And if people are using WE can you detect it ? I think its good to detect people are using an old browser like Netscsape 2.02 or WE and to inform them to upgrade (still provide an option to continue of
<eCSNL> cours)
<eCSNL> But I have bumped half a year ago in one person running Netscape 2.02 on his Warp 4 box
<eCSNL> and he said "I can't get onto website"....
<eCSNL> s
<KenKrchnr> Make that 2 ;)
<eCSNL> Your running Netscape 2.02 ?
<KenKrchnr> For some stuff, not all.
<WalterOS2> Good old reliable browser, that.
<WarpedOS2> I use now ONLY Firebird...works perfectly
<WarpedOS2> it is fast...and snappy...and less overhead
<eCSNL> Well Netscape 4.61 and 2.02 will bite the dust on more and mroe pages...
<WalterOS2> Anyway, lets try to get back on track.
<WarpedOS2> firebird works fine with DTOC too
<eCSNL> Well Mozilla is actualy also very fast once its loaded...
<WalterOS2> Hey, folks. BACK ON TOPIC PLEASE!
<WarpedOS2> So again I would say Voice needs a face lift...to accomodate the newly released eCS 1.1
<eCSNL> Oke well maybe the kind of layout the ecs website has could be looked at...
<eCSNL> We have had very good comment on that....
<WalterOS2> I agree. If Jeremy says he can do and make it compatible with any browsers supporting tables, I say go to it.
<Rat-Salad> I'm open to creativity ideas guy.. if anyone has ideas you can e-mail me... rs@fyrelizard.com
<WalterOS2> RS: Please be open also to some help, and don't try to do it all by yourself.
<WalterOS2> We all know your very busy.
<WalterOS2> :-)
<WalterOS2> your=you're
<Rat-Salad> Walter, whats most troubling for me these days, is the creative aspect... you guys toss around some ideas.. I can build it
<WarpedOS2> Well...I think to get an eye catcher....the simple approach is better...clean and simple with easy directions
<WalterOS2> I like "easy directions" :-)
<Rat-Salad> I'd like to think of it as a artistic thing
<WarpedOS2> yes...eg: warpdoctor site
<WarpedOS2> I think possibly going to menu's across the top would be kewl...NOT drop down menus though
<Rat-Salad> I'd like to stick with a canvas 800 pixel in width
<WarpedOS2> that way you get more on center of page
<Rat-Salad> with os2voice.org.. getting all the links on there.. I think going vertical with it would damage readability
<WarpedOS2> what about a site like this format? http://www.proxim.com/products/wan/
<WarpedOS2> or backup one page http://www.proxim.com/
<WarpedOS2> pics don't have to be in same spot but just the layout of it?
<eCSNL> Sorry WarpedOS2
<WarpedOS2> but really that is one kind of layout
<eCSNL> but I get a surgery room feeling that website....
<WarpedOS2> I am focusing more on the menu's layout...
<Rat-Salad> let me put it this way to you guys.. if you can bring up a graphics app, and put together something on a canvas.. I can build it
<WarpedOS2> ok..RS...
<Rat-Salad> if anyone can draw it out.. I can do it
<WalterOS2> OK
<Rat-Salad> I guess I have a lot on my mind these days.. I need a little help being creative
<WalterOS2> How's your house coming?
<Rat-Salad> ohh doing good.. got that new roof.. still need to get the rest of the repairs done
<WalterOS2> How about your electrical system?
<Rat-Salad> the electric is better now.. will have to replace the box eventually
<WarpedOS2> so does this conversation mean we are done with the meeting?
<WalterOS2> That's good to hear. Probably why I can connect to the chat through your server without fear of disconnects.
<WalterOS2> Unless anyone has any other topics to discuss.
<WarpedOS2> great walter you are supporting your own country...heehehe
<WalterOS2> Your server was down.
<WalterOS2> I tried this week and last time as well. :-(
<KenKrchnr> How about we have Jeremy change the warpdoctor dns to point to voice2 for a week 'til Doug is ready to test Apache2 on voice2?
<WarpedOS2> Well I am connected Walter and it was has been up for quite some time...
<WalterOS2> Good for you. :-)
<WalterOS2> Ken, that's fine with me.
<WalterOS2> Ok, anyone want to move that we adjourn?
* Rat-Salad moves
<WalterOS2> All in favour, please type Aye.
<Rat-Salad> aye :)
<KenKrchnr> Aye
<JWE> aye
<WalterOS2> All opposed to adjourning, please type Nay.
<WalterOS2> The motion is carried.
<WalterOS2> The meeting is adjourned.