08-06-97 19:57:31 *** Log Activated #VOICE (F:\TCPIP\GTIRC\#VOICE.log)
08-06-97 19:57:31 *** MADodel (~MADODEL@cable032110.cable.str.ptd.net) has joined #VOICE [19:57:31]
08-06-97 19:57:31 *** The topic for #VOICE is: Promote OS/2 discussion group
08-06-97 19:57:31 *** Topic set by VoiceBot on Wed Aug 6 17:44:08 1997
08-06-97 19:57:31 *** Names on #VOICE: MADodel Opio @VoiceBot
08-06-97 19:57:31 *** #VOICE Mode is (+ )
08-06-97 19:58:04 <Opio> Madlog: Is there a meeting here tonite???
08-06-97 19:58:09 <Opio> I was about to leave...
08-06-97 19:58:37 <MADlog> Yes, I wonder where everyone is
08-06-97 19:59:23 *** MHA1 (~mha1@slip129-37-234-67.pa.us.ibm.net) has joined #voice [19:59:23]
08-06-97 19:59:28 *** MADodel (MADODEL@cable032110.cable.str.ptd.net) has joined #VOICE [19:59:28]
08-06-97 19:59:50 <MADodel> hello MHA1
08-06-97 19:59:59 <MHA1> Hi MADodel : )
08-06-97 20:00:06 *** Mount (admin1@slip166-72-248-109.ri.us.ibm.net) has joined #Voice [20:00:06]
08-06-97 20:00:06 *** #VOICE Mode change: +o MADodel by VoiceBot
08-06-97 20:01:40 *** Projects (plazenby@kitimat-2-10.yellowhead16.net) has joined #voice [20:01:40]
08-06-97 20:02:06 *** #VOICE Mode change: +o Projects by MADodel
08-06-97 20:02:25 <MADodel> Hello Mount and Projects
08-06-97 20:02:42 <Projects> hiya Mad
08-06-97 20:03:08 <MHA1> Hi Projects and Mount :)
08-06-97 20:03:41 <Projects> hmm... /me sees no Mount anymore...
08-06-97 20:03:41 <Projects> Hiya MHA
08-06-97 20:03:56 *** Mount (rushmoribm@slip166-72-248-109.ri.us.ibm.net) has joined #VOICE [20:03:56]
08-06-97 20:03:57 <MHA1> Anyone know if mandie is going to be here tonight?
08-06-97 20:04:13 <MHA1> rehi Mount
08-06-97 20:04:15 <MADodel> mandie said she will be late tonight
08-06-97 20:04:20 <Projects> MHA: yup... she'll be a bit late though
08-06-97 20:04:30 <Mount> Hi everyone!
08-06-97 20:05:17 <MHA1> I miss the old schedule of meetings, but I guess with summer here, a lot of people can not be here anyway.
08-06-97 20:05:42 <MADodel> MHA1: seems that way.
08-06-97 20:06:36 * Projects could make them all if he remembered what day of the week it was...
08-06-97 20:07:32 <MHA1> I have urged my OS/2 SIG members to join in here, but most do not use the IRC at all. I have told them all about Judy's Warped World and the IRC pages with help for them, but they don't seem to be getting into it.
08-06-97 20:07:52 <Projects> hmm...
08-06-97 20:08:07 <MADodel> MHA1: not everyone is ready for the net. :-)
08-06-97 20:08:44 <Mount> Has anyone tried IBM Alphaworks Java IRC client?
08-06-97 20:09:02 <MHA1> I'm sure they've seen the VOICE web site - at least some have - but maybe the "membership fee" thing is turning them away? I told them they don't HAVE to pay to come to a meeting, just to win prizes when there is a guest.
08-06-97 20:09:51 <MHA1> MADodel - all but one member goes into the Net... just not the IRC. Guess I need a new, more interesting way to get them here. Any ideas?
08-06-97 20:10:33 <MADodel> That reminds me, there is an error in the VOICE bylaws about the anual membership. It says they expire on Jan 1st. That is not true. They run for a full 12 months.
08-06-97 20:10:33 <MHA1>
08-06-97 20:11:09 <MHA1> MADodel: I didn't even notice that. ;> Who is to change it, mandie?
08-06-97 20:11:28 *** Stryder (~ellingtg@ has joined #VOICE [20:11:28]
08-06-97 20:11:45 <Stryder> Hello all. Sorry for the delay, the TStorms are bad tonight.
08-06-97 20:11:54 <MHA1> Hi Stryder :)
08-06-97 20:12:06 <Stryder> Hello MHA1
08-06-97 20:12:45 *** #VOICE Mode change: +o Stryder by MADodel
08-06-97 20:12:54 <MADodel> Stryder: hello Stryder
08-06-97 20:13:01 <MHA1> MADodel: perhaps people reading that 1/1 expiration date are going to join after 1/1 - I hope that's all the problem is.
08-06-97 20:13:09 <Stryder> Hello MADodel.
08-06-97 20:13:42 <MADodel> MHA1: we have gotten mail about it. That's how we noticed it. :-P
08-06-97 20:14:20 <MHA1> At least people wrote in - that means they were there to read it! :)))
08-06-97 20:14:36 <MADodel> :-)
08-06-97 20:14:58 <Opio> How many members (approximately) does VOICE currently consist of?
08-06-97 20:14:59 <MHA1> Any guests lined up for the near future?
08-06-97 20:15:49 <Projects> Opio: approximately 11
08-06-97 20:15:50 <Stryder> Opio If I had to make an educated guess, and Projects can correct me if I am wrong. Aside from the board members, probably 5 people.
08-06-97 20:16:07 <Stryder> Including the board Projects ?
08-06-97 20:16:24 <Projects> Stryder: including the board...
08-06-97 20:16:40 <Stryder> So there are five non board members.
08-06-97 20:17:08 <MHA1> Hey, at least we are not charging what the new Warp City is - have you seen their new subsciption plan and rate?! Outrageous!
08-06-97 20:17:29 <Projects> heh... they won't get any money from me...
08-06-97 20:17:52 <MHA1> nor me! There is way too much news available on the net for free.
08-06-97 20:17:54 <Mount> Who would I talk to about my membership, I sent in my registration fee but I have yet to hear anything?
08-06-97 20:18:54 <Stryder> Am I reading the warpstock list properly ??? Are the folks there actually looking to pick a fight with IBM ?!?!
08-06-97 20:19:44 <Stryder> That will just make IBM snicker behind their hands and say 'See I told you that SOHO / non-fortune 500 group was not worth the bother...'
08-06-97 20:20:06 <MADodel> Stryder: people are frustrated
08-06-97 20:20:10 <MHA1> Something at the site, or in the email list, Stryder? I just cancelled the (never ending) email so haven't heard anything new.
08-06-97 20:20:35 <MADodel> Look at all the vicious name calling in the news groups.
08-06-97 20:20:37 <Stryder> The email list.
08-06-97 20:21:03 * MHA1 Knew I shouldn't have cancelled the email!
08-06-97 20:21:35 <Stryder> I agree about the frustration, but... Do they really think that sort of action will encourage IBM to get *MORE* involved in this particular market ?!
08-06-97 20:22:07 <MHA1> Agreed, Stryder. IBM won't listen to us anyway, so name-calling and such will only make things worse for us.
08-06-97 20:22:11 <MADodel> Stryder: I think they want IBM out of the consumer market entirely.
08-06-97 20:23:19 <Stryder> Interesting gambit, get the company making the product out of *YOUR* market segment... I seriously wonder about folks sometimes.
08-06-97 20:24:00 <MHA1> Hear the latest? Apple sold some of their stock to MS today.
08-06-97 20:24:28 <Stryder> Yeah 150M, the catch Apple has to bundle IE with the OS now.
08-06-97 20:24:31 <MADodel> IBM blew another chance. They should have bought apple.
08-06-97 20:24:33 <MHA1> Talk about a big mistake on Apple's part... they should have sold it to IBM.
08-06-97 20:24:57 <Stryder> IBM was not at all interested contrary to popular rumor.
08-06-97 20:25:15 <Opio> Stryder: Not just bundle, but actually make IE the _primary_ browser.
08-06-97 20:25:34 <Opio> People who are too lazy to switch will end up using IE by default (which is MS's plan).
08-06-97 20:25:35 <Stryder> I wonder what exactly IBM is thinking (if anything). Yeah, that is what I meant Opio.
08-06-97 20:25:41 <MADodel> Isn't that a tad anti-competitive?
08-06-97 20:25:53 <MHA1> I think today's close of IBM stock was highest YTD. I wonder if Apple's movce encouraged that.
08-06-97 20:25:58 <Stryder> I am confused MADodel.... When did that stop MS ? :))))
08-06-97 20:26:14 <Opio> MADodel: It isn't considered anti-competetive because it's one company's browser on another company's OS.
08-06-97 20:27:10 <MHA1> AOL's newest beta version uses MS IE... I hope I won't have to use that version anytime soon. Netscape is so much better than MS's browser.
08-06-97 20:27:16 <MADodel> Even if you own a large chunk of the company?
08-06-97 20:27:21 <Stryder> Besides MS owns the government market lock stock and barrell. Billions (if not trillions) of dollars of MS stuff is in use in now. The Gov will not upset the apple cart unless MS is *COMPLETELY* apparent.
08-06-97 20:27:43 <Opio> On the warpstock/name-calling/irritating IBM thing, does VOICE have a dialog with any IBM reps? Could VOICE present an alternative that people might gravitate to, simply because they don't want to be associated with a group that's approaching IBM in an abrasive manner?
08-06-97 20:30:05 <MADodel> David Both is voice's vp. He is also co-ordinating the IBM presence at Warpstock
08-06-97 20:30:12 <Stryder> Opio the problem is that Warpstock is ONE event. If there is friction from folks planning on attending, we can't change that.
08-06-97 20:30:41 <Stryder> If they in turn harrass IBM reps through email, etc..... once again the damage is done :(
08-06-97 20:30:42 <Opio> Stryder: Is it from one particular group, or is it just general grumbling?
08-06-97 20:31:08 <MHA1> I can not believe that the Warpstock officers would allow the anti-IBM thing to go as far as it seems to gone... that really will blow it for any real attendance, don't you think? I mean, we all are disappointed in IBM and the SOHO user thing, but the fact that OS/2 is their product and we would like to see it continue for us, shouldn't people take it a little easier on them?
08-06-97 20:31:16 <Stryder> I would say it is a little more than grumbling, there are not many folks on the email list, and those there have been there from jump street indicating an above average intrest.
08-06-97 20:32:13 <MADodel> bbiab, gotta put the baby to bed.
08-06-97 20:32:17 <Stryder> As for the individual that initially started the thread, is a *VERY* stuanch supporter.
08-06-97 20:33:39 <MHA1> Stryder - about what date did that thread get started? Maybe I have the beginnings of it... I haven't gotten up to date on reading it all yet.
08-06-97 20:33:59 <Opio> Does VOICE (I'm not a member (yet)) have an agenda to present to IBM? Maybe we could defuse some of the inappropriate overtones by having our questions (rational questions, but still hard-hitting questions) asked first... What is the VOICE agenda for warpstock?
08-06-97 20:35:08 <Stryder> Opio I am being blunt here (not insulting) But with 11 members (six founding) an Agenda would not do much as we have no numbers to back it. It would as effective as 10 emails :(
08-06-97 20:36:04 <Stryder> MHA1 the thread got started today.
08-06-97 20:36:28 <Opio> Stryder: If someone stood up and said "Hello, I represent VOICE, an OS/2 user group, and we had a couple of questions for you..." Depending upon whether or not membership grows and/or IBM does any homework on VOICE at all (doubtful?), we may be perceived a bit 'larger than life'...
08-06-97 20:36:38 <MHA1> Stryder: oh well. I missed it. ;>
08-06-97 20:37:51 <MHA1> I know an IBMer with PSP (OS/2 area) - what are the questions and I will call and ask him tomorrow. :)
08-06-97 20:38:25 <Opio> MHA1: They're questions that OS/2 users from all walks would want answered...
08-06-97 20:39:08 <MHA1> In fact, this person was the one who told ME about VOICE's initial meetings and I started attending when we were deciding the name.
08-06-97 20:40:24 <MHA1> Yes, Opio, #1 question is: "is IBM going to support SOHO in the future". That's a really tough question for anyone at IBM to answer right now I think. They have admitted that Windows won, so where do they go from there.
08-06-97 20:40:50 <Stryder> The good news is that this discussion has invoked more discussion on the list than anything else :)
08-06-97 20:41:39 *** Guest18 (JAVGUEST@ts4.dyn140.dynasty.net) has joined #VOICE [20:41:39]
08-06-97 20:41:42 <MHA1> My concern is, will Bluebird replace the single user OS/2 system or will IBM continue a Warp x.0 for any small user, home or small business.
08-06-97 20:42:51 <Stryder> I just wished IBM would see that MS will be replacing Win XX with NT for the consumer market. At that time the distinction between Enterprise and 'kitchentop' is gone. Will IBM concede the Enterprise so easily since the 'kitchentop' is conceded ? IBM needs to keep every customer it has regardless of size etc, or it will become just another VAR peddling NT solutions.
08-06-97 20:42:51 <Opio> MHA1: I think what VOICE would like to say is "We represent a group of people who _want_ OS/2 to be positioned as a SOHO product. We know it won't knock Windows out of first place. What are your thoughts on positioning OS/2 as an alternative to Windows products?"
08-06-97 20:43:13 <Stryder> *THAT* is what needs to be gotten across to IBM by VOICE and every other non fortune 500 entity.
08-06-97 20:43:32 <Opio> Stryder: We need to say that to IBM at Warpstock, while we have their ear!!
08-06-97 20:44:19 <Stryder> I agree Opio and I sincerely hope that message gets across to IBM.
08-06-97 20:44:43 <MHA1> I was posed an interesting question by this IBM person: "How can IBM market to the SOHO users who are using Win products?" I told him that they need to direct their attention to the many users who never switched from Win3.1 to Win95/NT.
08-06-97 20:45:00 <Stryder> Has anybody heard of what they are doing with Team OS/2 ?
08-06-97 20:45:20 <Opio> MHA1: How about focusing on the 5-10% who are fed up with the instability of Win95, and the resource requirements of NT?
08-06-97 20:45:35 <MHA1> IBM would have a better chance at getting Win3.1 users, as well as dissatisfied Win95/NT users. But HOW do they do it?
08-06-97 20:45:38 <Stryder> I know they were going pull a pheonix on it, but I have not heard anything from them.
08-06-97 20:46:26 <Opio> MHA1: Question #2 for IBM: What advertising campaigns and marketing plans do you have charted out in OS/2's future?
08-06-97 20:46:35 <Stryder> (Pet peave mode on) By ceasing to tell users that express valid concerns/requests that it is just not in the 'interest' of the majority of IBM customers.
08-06-97 20:46:37 <MHA1> Me neither, Stryder - I am on the email notification list when and IF the TeamOS/2 membership page changes. Nothing yet and it's now August!
08-06-97 20:46:49 <MADodel> MHA1: Even people who don't know what they are doing seem to hate windows, but they use it because that is what they see apps for everywhere.
08-06-97 20:47:46 <Stryder> I agree with MADodel, but there is also the issue of DRIVERS DRIVERS DRIVERS. People are tired of not having some of the most popular hardware out there supported without spending good money on aquiring drivers.
08-06-97 20:47:58 <Stryder> From third parties that is.
08-06-97 20:48:11 <MHA1> MADodel: That is the main concern where OS/2 is... there ARE apps, but are they the "killer" apps that are out there for Win95? Not too many, and it seems less and less are getting put out there.
08-06-97 20:48:17 <Opio> Stryder: IBM needs to hear (again) that drivers = customers (in ANY market).
08-06-97 20:48:32 <MADodel> Stryder: It's not even a question of drivers so much anymore as hardware that will only work with windows. win-modems, etc
08-06-97 20:48:39 <Stryder> For example: HP scanners - they own the majority of th market.
08-06-97 20:49:22 <Stryder> Or Connectix Quickcams or Sound cards, or Color Printers, etc...
08-06-97 20:49:58 <MHA1> Heh... I even had to get a new video card to work with Warp 4. Old Trident driver for my old card wouldn't work and there wasn't a new one for Warp 4.
08-06-97 20:49:59 <Stryder> ISV's are the other side of the software coin. SPG was a major blow. How can IBM keep ISV's ??
08-06-97 20:50:23 <MADodel> WHich brings up a point related to VOICE. VOICE plans on sponsoring an OS/2 hardware survey site. We will collect information about users experiences with installing various h/w under OS/2 so other users can learn what works and what doesn't.
08-06-97 20:50:31 <Opio> Stryder: Question #3 for IBM: What are you doing to attract and retain ISVs???
08-06-97 20:51:08 <MHA1> I think IBM is banking on Java to take care of the future of software, but when MS gets done with Java, I fear it'll be an MS proprietary language that will ONLY run on MS op systems.
08-06-97 20:51:27 <Stryder> And contrary to IBM and Sun's opinion, JAVA is *NOT* the complete answer. I shudder to think of Streaming Video on JAVA, or Photoshop, or Doom, or etc...
08-06-97 20:51:41 <MADodel> MHA1: when M$ gets done, nothing will work unless it runs a M$ OS.
08-06-97 20:51:43 *** os2hq (os2hq@user-2k7i4pf.dialup.mindspring.com) has joined #Voice [20:51:43]
08-06-97 20:51:47 <os2hq> Howdy, neighbors!
08-06-97 20:51:52 <Stryder> Hello os2hq
08-06-97 20:52:10 *** #VOICE Mode change: +o os2hq by MADodel
08-06-97 20:52:11 <os2hq> Sorry to be so late, got off work late....
08-06-97 20:52:17 <os2hq> What's the scoop?
08-06-97 20:52:25 <MADodel> os2hq: any os/2 converts?
08-06-97 20:52:31 <Stryder> If you have not read the Warpstock mailing list you should os2hq.
08-06-97 20:53:00 <os2hq> MAD: Not yet, but a guy was Shocked today when he heard our OS/2 PC runs for Weeks at a time!!!
08-06-97 20:53:02 <Stryder> Add some sanity to the list. I still can not post, although I have tried :(
08-06-97 20:53:08 <os2hq> Stry: Where is this... on the Web page?
08-06-97 20:53:21 <Stryder> No the mailing list for Warpstock.
08-06-97 20:53:25 <Stryder> Email.
08-06-97 20:53:31 <os2hq> Oops, sorry, I'll check on that.
08-06-97 20:53:45 <os2hq> What's the big story there, anyway???
08-06-97 20:54:07 <MADodel> Timur has proposed boycotting IBM's presentation at WS.
08-06-97 20:54:12 <Stryder> There are a group of folks planning on boycotting IBM, and possibly sending email to IBM asking them not to come.
08-06-97 20:54:36 <os2hq> What the )&)(*& are they thinking???? It's time to boycott APPLE after today's sellout!!@!
08-06-97 20:54:55 <Stryder> Kind of my thoughts on it os2hq :)
08-06-97 20:55:03 <MADodel> os2hq: I don't think there is anyone left to boycott Apple.
08-06-97 20:55:23 <os2hq> No, we should NOT boycott IBM; it's the other way around. We should snag the IBM'ers and force them to listen to MY PRESENTATION.
08-06-97 20:55:29 <os2hq> And get OUR P.O.V>
08-06-97 20:55:41 <Opio> os2hq: Absolutely.
08-06-97 20:55:56 <MHA1> Now, now, MADodel... I'm sure there are some really sad Apple people tonight. Kinda like some sad OS/2 users I know. ;>
08-06-97 20:56:02 <os2hq> In fact, I'm prepping for some things right now... after my IRS duty, of course.
08-06-97 20:56:12 <Opio> Is there going to be a q&a at the end of the IBM session? We should definitely have people there set with questions (and suggestions) for IBM...
08-06-97 20:56:17 <os2hq> thinks Apple zealots will boycott Apple.
08-06-97 20:56:32 <os2hq> I've attended these presentations, and let me tell you what.
08-06-97 20:56:37 <Opio> os2hq: Maybe some of them will switch to OS/2! :)
08-06-97 20:56:43 <MADodel> Opio: David said that IBM was open to a q&a session
08-06-97 20:56:45 <os2hq> The problem is as simple as this: IBM is in a Dream World.
08-06-97 20:57:06 <os2hq> They are out of touch with the buying decisionmaking process of the SOHO buyer.
08-06-97 20:57:09 <os2hq> It's that simple.
08-06-97 20:57:23 <MHA1> os2hq: I have heard an IBM "briefing" too. I left very upset!
08-06-97 20:57:28 <os2hq> Opio: I'm thinking of an open letter to Apple on this.
08-06-97 20:57:51 <os2hq> I'm prepping a REAL marketing pres. on SOHO. IBM should take notes.
08-06-97 20:57:54 <Opio> os2hq: ? to Apple? For bedding with MS? They need the money...
08-06-97 20:58:10 <MHA1> os2hq: Good idea! Get Apple to sell the rest of their stock/company to IBM - or better yet, to VOICE!
08-06-97 20:58:27 <os2hq> Opio: No, it's really about impure Java, MSIE 4 on Apple, and getting Apple's patents!!!
08-06-97 20:58:31 <os2hq> The money is a diversion!
08-06-97 20:58:57 <Stryder> I hate to say it os2hq, but my guess is that the remaining Apple users will be happy for any future be it Apples' or MS' :(
08-06-97 20:59:00 <os2hq> What if Apple has a secret cross-license with IBM, so that IBM will now get all MS patents????
08-06-97 20:59:23 <os2hq> Stryder: Not if they care about reliability & compatibility. MS code always kills those.
08-06-97 20:59:24 <MHA1> That would be so cool, os2hq...
08-06-97 20:59:54 <os2hq> The interesting thing is, they were planning this for OVER A YEAR!
08-06-97 20:59:56 *** mandie (jmcderm@slip166-72-135-217.mi.us.ibm.net) has joined #voice [20:59:56]
08-06-97 20:59:58 <mandie> hello :)
08-06-97 21:00:02 <mandie> sorry I'm late
08-06-97 21:00:03 <os2hq> Some tight-lipped folks out there.
08-06-97 21:00:06 <os2hq> Hi Mandie!
08-06-97 21:00:07 <MHA1> Hi mandie! : )
08-06-97 21:00:12 <mandie> MHA1: hiya!!! :)
08-06-97 21:00:17 <Stryder> Hello mandie. How is it going ?
08-06-97 21:00:17 <mandie> os2hq!! hi :)
08-06-97 21:00:33 <mandie> stryder: great..how's things here?
08-06-97 21:00:36 <Projects> mandie!
08-06-97 21:00:37 <os2hq> Okay, here's an example. How does the average woman SOHO buyer differ from the average male SOHO buyer?
08-06-97 21:00:38 <mandie> almost looks like an officers mtg
08-06-97 21:00:42 <Stryder> Pretty good.
08-06-97 21:00:45 <os2hq> In thinking process, I mean.
08-06-97 21:00:50 <mandie> projects!!!
08-06-97 21:01:18 <mandie> os2hq: she can wear a skirt and not get criticized for it?
08-06-97 21:01:22 <Stryder> I hate to cut out folks, but I've got to get going. It was good to see everybody.
08-06-97 21:01:34 *** TedEWeasl (bkeyport@tedeweasl.DYNDNS.com) has joined #voice [21:01:34]
08-06-97 21:01:36 <MHA1> Nite Stryder!
08-06-97 21:01:38 <Stryder> See everybody on IRC.
08-06-97 21:01:39 <mandie> TedE:; welcome!!
08-06-97 21:01:42 <mandie> stryder: see ya
08-06-97 21:01:46 <os2hq> Well, here's an example: When I sell to men, I sell to individuals, but when I sell to women, they MUST see themselves as part of a "community" of users.
08-06-97 21:01:48 <TedEWeasl> hi.
08-06-97 21:02:25 <os2hq> Men are often "lone wolf" OS/2 users, techies, etc. Women tend to buy software in "clusters."
08-06-97 21:02:29 <os2hq> That means you want to sell a lot of OS/2, get women to buy it with their best friend.
08-06-97 21:02:51 <mandie> have we discussed the hdwe page yet?
08-06-97 21:03:01 <os2hq> Second example: What are the PUSH and PULL factors for O.S. purchases???
08-06-97 21:03:10 <os2hq> In SOHO, I mean....
08-06-97 21:03:24 <MADodel> I mentioned it, but WarpStock has center stage. :-(
08-06-97 21:03:32 <Stryder> MADodel, I take it MADlog is loging ?
08-06-97 21:03:40 <Stryder> logging that is.
08-06-97 21:03:46 <os2hq> Let me rephrase that.... what ACCOUNTING APP that is Native OS/2, will the SOHO OS/2 buyer be running???
08-06-97 21:03:47 <MADodel> Stryder: of course
08-06-97 21:03:52 <mandie> well, I think warpstock mailing list is that place for that..or newsgroups...now can we talk voice?
08-06-97 21:04:02 <Stryder> If you could send it out, that would be great.
08-06-97 21:04:17 <Stryder> Take care all.
08-06-97 21:04:19 <MADodel> Stryder: of course. :-)
08-06-97 21:04:21 <os2hq> Answer: There IS NONE, of course! At least not tuned like Quickbooks.
08-06-97 21:04:24 <mandie> Madodel: the form that you sent out looked good
08-06-97 21:04:34 <TedEWeasl> Os2hq: I'd look at accountant/2 or whatever it's called, but there's nothing to back it up with the rest of our business.
08-06-97 21:04:43 <mandie> accucount/2
08-06-97 21:04:45 <os2hq> That is a "PULL" factor -- applications. Preloads are a PUSH factor.
08-06-97 21:04:47 * MADodel disagrees. InCharge is a great finance package.
08-06-97 21:04:50 <MHA1> os2hq: what is In Charge like? Not an Intuit'like app?
08-06-97 21:05:03 <TedEWeasl> InCharge is a joke.
08-06-97 21:05:06 <os2hq> The INCHARGE looks and feels Nothing like Qbooks....
08-06-97 21:05:11 <os2hq> TED: right.
08-06-97 21:05:15 <os2hq> sad....
08-06-97 21:05:28 <TedEWeasl> Course, QuickBooks sometimes can't add 2+2 and get 4.
08-06-97 21:05:33 <MADodel> TedEWeasl: WHo cares what Quickbooks looks like. It is windoze.
08-06-97 21:05:50 <os2hq> IBM will prove to me it's serious about SOHO when there is at least one Topflight native OS/2 accounting app.
08-06-97 21:05:54 <MHA1> Gee, I was thinking of replacing Quicken with InCharge due to Q version 6 Checkfree interface problems.
08-06-97 21:05:56 * TedEWeasl has to constantly clean up after Quickbooks.
08-06-97 21:06:02 <MADodel> InCharge has come along way. It can run a small business.
08-06-97 21:06:02 <os2hq> Another PULL factor is advertising.
08-06-97 21:06:17 <os2hq> Another PUSH factor is tech support.... or the lack thereof.
08-06-97 21:06:52 <MADodel> InCharge does Checkfree and can import Quicken files
08-06-97 21:06:59 * MHA1 is not impressed with Quickbooks payroll!
08-06-97 21:07:18 <os2hq> PULL factor: good utilities support.
08-06-97 21:07:28 <os2hq> PUSH factor: magazines.
08-06-97 21:07:39 <os2hq> PULL factor: Games.
08-06-97 21:07:47 <MADodel> MHA1: unfortunately InCharge does not yet do payroll.
08-06-97 21:07:52 <os2hq> PUSH factor: neighbors use it.
08-06-97 21:08:05 <os2hq> MAD: How's the Inventory? Invoicing?
08-06-97 21:08:06 <TedEWeasl> Quickbooks payroll has landed a few businesses we NOW have as clients in court and audits with various tax agencies, esp. our state.
08-06-97 21:08:28 <os2hq> Ted: shameful! The user interface is okay, but underneath it's the usual Wintrash.
08-06-97 21:08:37 <Opio> os2hq: Any plans to present this list to IBM, or even PSP?
08-06-97 21:08:41 <MHA1> TedEWeasl: No wonder - it has no real audit trail for taxes.
08-06-97 21:08:51 <os2hq> Opio: It's going to be in my Warpstock presentation.
08-06-97 21:08:52 <MADodel> os2hq: it does both. I don't have inventory so I can't say, but the invoicing is ok.
08-06-97 21:09:01 <os2hq> MAD: Good.
08-06-97 21:09:22 <os2hq> has a KILLER APP idea for an OS/2 contact manager... and no time to code it :(
08-06-97 21:09:39 <TedEWeasl> MHA1: No kidding.. I can generate a mound of paperwork the size of our office, and not have *ONE* Shred of audit trail.
08-06-97 21:09:40 <Opio> os2hq: What can VOICE do to encourage IBM to find out about your presentation? Are they going to be there? Can we encourage them to be there?
08-06-97 21:09:49 * MHA1 likes Quickbooks invoicing for the appearance editing features.
08-06-97 21:10:06 <os2hq> If they are there, they will get to see it by choice.... but IBM'ers are always "pressed for time."
08-06-97 21:10:33 <MADodel> Bruce Landeck has been great at enhansing InCarge at user requests.
08-06-97 21:10:50 <Opio> os2hq: Do we know who is coordinating IBM's rep for Warpstock? Could we ask them to ask the IBM rep to be there, perhaps?
08-06-97 21:10:52 <os2hq> MAD: Maybe I should sell him my Contact front end idea.
08-06-97 21:11:06 <os2hq> Don't know.
08-06-97 21:11:24 <os2hq> Opio: you can check on the Warpstock press release, I suppose.
08-06-97 21:11:57 <os2hq> Another example: What Native OS/2 app do people use to design advertising flyers and product diagrams???
08-06-97 21:12:10 <Opio> os2hq: I was hoping we had someone who was already a VOICE member that would be 'connected'! :)
08-06-97 21:12:11 <MHA1> MADodel: I read at their website that they update monthly - is that for real?
08-06-97 21:12:22 <TedEWeasl> os2hq: Ad flyers, I'd use PhotoGraphics.
08-06-97 21:12:27 <os2hq> Opio: Once again, I don't know.
08-06-97 21:13:05 <os2hq> Ted: Yes, but this is a relatively new app, isn't it? Unknown to most PC users. Unlike COREL!!!!
08-06-97 21:13:07 <TedEWeasl> os2hq: product diagrams, might be a bit difficult through PG...
08-06-97 21:13:14 <os2hq> So, look at the top 5 things a SOHO user needs in terms of apps:
08-06-97 21:13:15 <TedEWeasl> Os2hq: Point.
08-06-97 21:13:30 <MADodel> MHA1: pretty much. He charges for support after the first update though. I wasn't happy about that at first. But it has been well worth it.
08-06-97 21:13:48 <os2hq> 1. Accounting 2. DTP/flyers/drawings etc. 3. Word Processing
08-06-97 21:13:53 <MHA1> MADodel: how much is support?
08-06-97 21:14:24 * TedEWeasl never heard of corel anything prior to Corel having wordperfect again.
08-06-97 21:14:24 <MADodel> MHA1: I think it's $20 for 6 months.
08-06-97 21:14:34 <Projects> os2hq: not that it's widely used by SOHOs, but CAD software...
08-06-97 21:14:38 <os2hq> Ted: COREL Draw rules.
08-06-97 21:14:52 <os2hq> Proj: Yes, many folks use Corel for "light CAD."
08-06-97 21:15:09 <os2hq> 4. Contact Management
08-06-97 21:15:12 <Projects> os2hq: heh... I need "heavy" cad...
08-06-97 21:15:23 <TedEWeasl> os2hq: Again, never heard of it till now.
08-06-97 21:15:24 <os2hq> 5. E-mail
08-06-97 21:15:44 <MHA1> MADodel: not too shabby, but if only good for home financials, a little high. I'd only pay that for a business app - like with payroll included (and tax updates).
08-06-97 21:15:55 <os2hq> Opio: I'll try to get that into my agenda. Thanks.
08-06-97 21:16:10 <MADodel> MHA1: you ought to join the InCharge mail list. It amazes me that people ask for stuff and they usually get it in the next release.
08-06-97 21:16:23 <os2hq> So, based on my Top Five list, with E-mail only recently coming on board, what do shoppers think of????
08-06-97 21:16:24 <Opio> I enjoyed this meeting alot! See you!
08-06-97 21:16:54 <os2hq> 1. Quickbooks -- NOT OS/2.
08-06-97 21:17:05 <os2hq> 2. Corel Draw -- NOT OS/2 (everyone ignores v2.5)
08-06-97 21:17:17 <os2hq> 3. Word -- NOT OS/2.
08-06-97 21:17:30 <MADodel> and never will be
08-06-97 21:17:31 <os2hq> 3. also Word Perfect -- NOT OS/2.
08-06-97 21:17:41 <MHA1> MADodel: I have the demo but still zipped. Haven't had time to look at it. Someone told me it is text-based rather than PM like?
08-06-97 21:18:08 <os2hq> 4. ACT! or Goldmine or Maximizer -- NOT OS/2.
08-06-97 21:18:25 <os2hq> 5. AOL -- NOT OS/2.
08-06-97 21:18:25 <Projects> os2hq: afaik, corel 2.5 is part win-os2, no?
08-06-97 21:18:25 *** Abraxas (~dcasey@slip166-72-126-98.in.us.ibm.net) has joined #VOICE [21:18:25]
08-06-97 21:18:25 <MADodel> MHA1: it's a PM app as far as I know
08-06-97 21:18:38 <TedEWeasl> never heard of *ANY* products in 4, or Corel Draw till now...
08-06-97 21:18:44 <os2hq> See what I mean! Not ONE of the top 5 needs of SOHO has a bell-ringer native OS/2 app!!!!
08-06-97 21:19:06 <MHA1> #4 - there is OmniFile for OS/2.
08-06-97 21:19:06 <os2hq> Yet OS/2 has its best chance of success in SOHO.
08-06-97 21:19:18 <TedEWeasl> os2hq: not in this SOHO..
08-06-97 21:19:37 <MHA1> There is also Check+ for OS/2, but it doesn't have Checkfree interface.
08-06-97 21:20:02 <MHA1> Yet anyway.
08-06-97 21:20:04 <os2hq> MHA: Omnifile did a big crash here, and hides data too.
08-06-97 21:20:25 <os2hq> And it's NOT easy to work with, like my old DOS version of Maximizer.
08-06-97 21:20:25 <TedEWeasl> os2hq: Specially with IBM telling an ISV to go to hell when they requested assistance for programming their *PROFESSIONAL ONLY* Tax Software in OS/2..
08-06-97 21:20:44 <os2hq> Ted: Who's that!!!
08-06-97 21:20:44 <MHA1> os2hq: did you get the update yet?
08-06-97 21:20:44 <mandie> MoneyTree is well on it's way...hope to have it demoed at Warpstock
08-06-97 21:20:54 <os2hq> MHA: No, I'm too busy right now.
08-06-97 21:21:11 <os2hq> Mandie: Good! About time! What about Robert Mauro's app?
08-06-97 21:21:34 <mandie> os2hq: which app is that?
08-06-97 21:21:39 <os2hq> Accucount/2
08-06-97 21:21:51 <TedEWeasl> OS2HQ: Don't matter, the company desided to sell out after that as they felt there was *NO* suitable platforms to continue development.
08-06-97 21:21:53 <mandie> os2hq: ah, I don't know about that one
08-06-97 21:22:01 <MADodel> Accucount/2, there are some bits and pieces of the beta at the beta site. But no real app yet
08-06-97 21:22:16 <os2hq> MAD: He's a year late.
08-06-97 21:22:16 <mandie> mad: did it finally go beta?
08-06-97 21:22:35 <TedEWeasl> os2hq: They sent out a copy of the letter from IBM stating very clearly that IBM was NOT interested in that software for their OS.
08-06-97 21:22:46 <mandie> Mad: I was given beta access when we had the SpeakUp ...but never found a beta on the site
08-06-97 21:22:46 <os2hq> Ted: that is very, very wierd.
08-06-97 21:23:09 <MHA1> TedEWeasl: Like no accountants are using OS/2, huh? Probably not now with that happening.
08-06-97 21:23:17 <os2hq> You know what I think, people? IBM, Larry Ellison, and Steve Jobs have all gone mad, and we're the only sane folks left!!!!
08-06-97 21:23:17 <MADodel> mandie: they put some files for d/l, but it's not the actual app. Some stuff for emailing via PMMail and some DLL's that I'm not sure what they are about.
08-06-97 21:23:35 *** [ptackbar (~ptackbar@jamawkinaw.vnet.net) has joined #voice [21:23:35]
08-06-97 21:23:35 <mandie> mad: ah
08-06-97 21:23:35 <mandie> ptack!!
08-06-97 21:23:40 <[ptackbar> soh!
08-06-97 21:23:40 <[ptackbar> sorry :)
08-06-97 21:23:40 <TedEWeasl> os2hq: I suspect that they were talking to the wrong people, but all the same, it shouldn't have happened.
08-06-97 21:23:43 <os2hq> Hey PT~
08-06-97 21:23:43 <[ptackbar> doh even
08-06-97 21:23:48 <[ptackbar> forgot it was tonight
08-06-97 21:23:48 <[ptackbar> hey os2hq
08-06-97 21:24:07 <TedEWeasl> MHA1: No chance of it here - We'll be ramping up shortly to go to Windows - it's our only option.
08-06-97 21:24:18 <os2hq> Ted: why's that?
08-06-97 21:24:24 <Projects> ptackbar: heh... sounds like my Monday excuse :)
08-06-97 21:24:37 <ptackbar> Projects: woops, forgot that too :)
08-06-97 21:24:38 <MHA1> TedEWeasl: Argh. Sad day.
08-06-97 21:24:46 <TedEWeasl> os2hq: No software for OS/2, DOS support is being dropped.
08-06-97 21:25:00 <os2hq> Yep, that's a problem.
08-06-97 21:25:01 <TedEWeasl> os2hq: it's Win95 or NT, or nothing.
08-06-97 21:25:07 <Projects> ptackbar: heh... well, it was a holiday here but felt just like sunday... so I missed it...
08-06-97 21:25:17 <os2hq> Ted: I think "nothing" would be more reliable.
08-06-97 21:25:18 <ptackbar> yeah, holiday! that's it!
08-06-97 21:25:18 <ptackbar> :)
08-06-97 21:25:25 <ptackbar> so is the meeting over?
08-06-97 21:25:27 <mandie> projects: even after I reminded you :)\
08-06-97 21:25:29 <Projects> ptackbar: :)
08-06-97 21:25:40 <TedEWeasl> os2hq: sure. let me close my business right now.
08-06-97 21:25:44 <Projects> mandie: I know... but you reminded me too early in the day :)
08-06-97 21:25:45 <MADodel> Projects: what was it 'National Hockey Puck Day'?
08-06-97 21:25:47 <TedEWeasl> os2hq: Thanks, but no thanks.
08-06-97 21:25:50 <os2hq> Ted: Yes, I mean farm it out.
08-06-97 21:25:55 <MADodel> :-)
08-06-97 21:25:56 <Projects> MAD: no, BC Day
08-06-97 21:25:59 <mandie> hehe
08-06-97 21:26:01 <os2hq> The accounting, not the business!!!
08-06-97 21:26:15 <TedEWeasl> os2hq: That's our business.
08-06-97 21:26:23 <TedEWeasl> os2hq: I'm a Tax and Accounting professional.
08-06-97 21:26:24 <os2hq> Oh
08-06-97 21:26:34 <TedEWeasl> ;)
08-06-97 21:26:46 <os2hq> Ted: Then you're the man we should consult with to make a REAL hot OS/2 acct. app!
08-06-97 21:26:53 <TedEWeasl> heh
08-06-97 21:27:02 <TedEWeasl> Accounting isn't the problem. Tax side is.
08-06-97 21:27:14 <os2hq> Why don't you e-mail me your likes, dislikes, requirements, etc. to os2headquarters@mindspring.com
08-06-97 21:27:21 <TedEWeasl> We still use BPI accounting from '87
08-06-97 21:27:37 <MHA1> Ted can give you the IRS regs, I can tell you what the bookkeeper's need to run it. But YOU program it, os2hq!
08-06-97 21:27:47 <os2hq> One of these nights!
08-06-97 21:28:03 <TedEWeasl> BPI Accounting, Version C.13, October 1987, (C) 1987 BPI Systems, INC. <- that's it. Right there. ;)
08-06-97 21:28:20 <MHA1> Ah, good 'ol BPI... I remember that app. ;>
08-06-97 21:28:23 <os2hq> is Seriously considering building a second PC, solely for development.
08-06-97 21:28:46 <TedEWeasl> Let's see, BPI Systems sold out to Texas Accounting, Inc... Texas Accounting was bought by Computer Assoc......
08-06-97 21:28:49 <TedEWeasl> hmmm.
08-06-97 21:28:50 <TedEWeasl> :)
08-06-97 21:28:55 <MHA1> er, at least I've used the BPI AccPac, Ted.
08-06-97 21:29:02 <MADodel> ANyone try P&L Pro Accounting?
08-06-97 21:29:08 <TedEWeasl> MHA1: This is before AccPacc
08-06-97 21:29:23 <MHA1> Ted: I know - "older than dirt" app.
08-06-97 21:29:24 <ptackbar> someone op me :)
08-06-97 21:29:31 *** #VOICE Mode change: +o ptackbar by MADodel
08-06-97 21:29:36 <ptackbar> thanks!
08-06-97 21:29:42 *** #VOICE Mode change: +ni by ptackbar
08-06-97 21:29:46 <os2hq> That's what happens. Big boys buy out little guys, and platforms get consolidated == windowized.
08-06-97 21:29:53 *** #VOICE Mode change: +t-i by ptackbar
08-06-97 21:29:57 <ptackbar> :)
08-06-97 21:29:59 <mandie> hmm
08-06-97 21:30:01 <MHA1> Or MS buys 'em out.
08-06-97 21:30:02 <TedEWeasl> MHA1: Hey, it don't get old - Accouting rules won't change much, unless they make a law that says 2+2=3
08-06-97 21:30:11 * TedEWeasl looks at Ptacky.
08-06-97 21:30:16 <MHA1> LOL Ted!
08-06-97 21:30:18 * ptackbar looks at Teddy
08-06-97 21:30:20 <os2hq> That's the point, Software don't die, but support does.
08-06-97 21:30:46 <os2hq> Well, Pa Kettle just rang the dinner bell. Time to eat. Bye all!!!
08-06-97 21:30:47 <TedEWeasl> os2hq: who needs support on BPI Accounting, C.13? It's manual is complete. ;)
08-06-97 21:31:01 <os2hq> Ted: They why change downward to Windoze???
08-06-97 21:31:20 <TedEWeasl> os2hq: Tax software.
08-06-97 21:31:26 <os2hq> Ted: AMTAX.
08-06-97 21:31:32 <os2hq> www.amtax.com I think.
08-06-97 21:31:53 <os2hq> What happened to BT&T Tax Dollars?
08-06-97 21:31:55 <MHA1> os2hq: they still around? I couldn't find their app this year.
08-06-97 21:31:56 <TedEWeasl> os2hq: Next Tax Season is the *last* season our preferred package will have a DOS version.
08-06-97 21:32:15 <os2hq> Hmmm, I though AMTAX was still around... I might need it this weekend!!!
08-06-97 21:32:21 <os2hq> Okay, bye folks.
08-06-97 21:32:31 <MADodel> MHA1: they went to shareware
08-06-97 21:33:03 <MHA1> I thought it was always shareware, but for 1040 and simple returns, it could be used without reg.
08-06-97 21:33:08 <mandie> ok, questions for IBM
08-06-97 21:33:22 <mandie> yes, we will have input to IBM for Warpstock
08-06-97 21:33:44 * MADodel uses Lamson ExelTax
08-06-97 21:33:45 <TedEWeasl> Os2hq: Requirements (1) *NO* personal version whatsoever. (2) able to convert clients from the major competitors (3) Provides as many tax types as possible, as well as *ALL* state tax forms (4) Electronic Filing interface with ACA Direct. (5) 24 hour/7 day support.
08-06-97 21:33:54 <MHA1> IBM: Please, oh please, don't let us down. Support SOHO users.
08-06-97 21:34:27 <mandie> We are going to be accepting questions and then compiling a list of the TOP #X and this will be sent to IBM prior to Warpstock...they are very willing to try to answer the questions of the os2 users
08-06-97 21:34:42 <MHA1> TedEWeasl: that's why I couldn't find it - reason #1.
08-06-97 21:35:22 * ptackbar has a tape of PSP screaming like banshees
08-06-97 21:35:48 <TedEWeasl> MHA1: That's why we switched from our old package to Lacerte.. The old company sold to Intuit - and Intuit's pro version is just a multi-user personal version. Not nearly as powerful as we need.
08-06-97 21:37:38 <ptackbar>  is the meeting over? :)
08-06-97 21:37:38 <MHA1> TedEWeasl: yeah - kind of hard to do corp returns with something like Intuit's so-called "pro" version! ;>
08-06-97 21:37:38 <TedEWeasl> mandie: Why does IBM seem to be killing OS/2 at every possible chance? Adding features rather than fixing bugs, not supporting the product, not getting updates out, and what seems to be sloppy programming of key features (Warpcenter, WebEx/NS2, etc)
08-06-97 21:37:48 <TedEWeasl> MHA1: :)
08-06-97 21:38:06 * Abraxas wonders what all these multi-national banks and financial institiutions that are running OS/2 are using for Accounting and Tax Software?
08-06-97 21:38:09 <mandie> TedE: now can I personally answer for IBM ...
08-06-97 21:38:40 <Projects> mandie: sure, go ahead :)
08-06-97 21:38:42 <mandie> Madodel: I think it would be a good idea to stick something up on the VOICE homepage as you suggested...and people can send the questions that they would like answered by IBM...these can go to David
08-06-97 21:38:47 <MHA1> mandie: you have an answer to that question? by all means, tell us.
08-06-97 21:38:48 <mandie> projects: hehe
08-06-97 21:39:05 *** CTCP PING (ptackbar) (#voice)
08-06-97 21:39:12 <mandie> MHA: IF I had the answer, I would certainly answer it ;)
08-06-97 21:39:20 <MADodel> MHA1: HAve you looked at ExelTax. It's a Philly based company. And they support OS/2 under their DOS version. http://lamsontech.com/
08-06-97 21:39:26 <MHA1> Abraxas: they most likely use custom written software.
08-06-97 21:40:28 * TedEWeasl at this point is ready to switch from OS/2 - just won't do it cause of too many programs that has been invested in... Someone get me a OS/2-Linux thing! ;)
08-06-97 21:40:45 <Abraxas> I used to have a book published by IBM with 1000's of OS/2 apps (mostly custom and/or client-type specific).....can't find it these days
08-06-97 21:40:55 <MHA1> MADodel: I personally have no use for tax only apps, as I do not do taxes other than sales and payroll tax prep. Too much updating/seminars/expense to that for my small business.
08-06-97 21:41:06 <TedEWeasl> Abraxas: The S&S book that came with W3?
08-06-97 21:41:23 <MHA1> TedEWeasl: my thoughts EXACTLY on a switch from OS/2!
08-06-97 21:41:29 <Abraxas> TedEWeasl: no, I had this one back in the days of OS/2 2.0
08-06-97 21:42:25 <Abraxas> I've been looking for it for almost a month, now
08-06-97 21:42:27 <TedEWeasl> Abraxas: ah. I was going to say... Like Dell products being "compatible" with OS/2, that book was SO far out of date.
08-06-97 21:43:46 <TedEWeasl> MHA1: if I had a shell like WinOS2 for OS/2 apps on *ANY* other platform, I'd find it and go.
08-06-97 21:44:24 <MHA1> We'll have to dream about that one, Ted.
08-06-97 21:44:37 <Abraxas> TedEWeasl: This one was MOSTLY custom apps....or apps written for a specific market (accounting, Dispatch systems, etc) also had a list of MANY ISV's, consultants, etc.
08-06-97 21:44:59 <TedEWeasl> hmmm
08-06-97 21:45:03 <TedEWeasl> cool.
08-06-97 21:45:14 <Projects> Abraxas: beige/white/red book?
08-06-97 21:45:18 <Abraxas> Wish I could find it
08-06-97 21:45:33 <MHA1> Abraxas: I wonder though, how many of those apps are still used (or upgraded for Warp) and how many of those ISV's are left?
08-06-97 21:45:37 <Abraxas> Projects: Red, if I remember correctly
08-06-97 21:46:20 <Projects> Abraxas: I have one here that's beige/white/red, called OS/2 Application directory
08-06-97 21:46:31 <Abraxas> 2 names that I DO remember being in there were David Moskowitz and Kari Jackson
08-06-97 21:46:49 <MADodel> This is beginning to sound more like a funeral then a promotion group.
08-06-97 21:47:33 <mandie> mad: isn't that the truth!
08-06-97 21:47:35 <MHA1> You're right, MADodel - we have all been sounding like we are at the funeral of OS/2.
08-06-97 21:47:42 <Abraxas> I know where Moskowitz is.....last I heard anything about Kari, was linked to Money Tree
08-06-97 21:47:46 <Mount> I got a copy of the book in front of me, it is called Sources & Solutions.
08-06-97 21:47:59 <Abraxas> Mount: THAT"S IT!!!!!
08-06-97 21:48:02 <Projects> Mount: I have that one too
08-06-97 21:48:02 <Mount> It is from the fall of '94.
08-06-97 21:48:45 <MADodel> IBM never seems to follow up on anything. Everything is a one shot deal with them.
08-06-97 21:49:10 <TedEWeasl> Mount: That's the Warp3 book, isn't it? mostly white?
08-06-97 21:49:31 * TedEWeasl feels abandoned by IBM.
08-06-97 21:49:31 <Projects> TedE: that's the one
08-06-97 21:49:52 <Mount> Yes(white, red, and beige), it came with W3.
08-06-97 21:50:06 * mandie thinks TedEWeasl feels abandoned by his mother!
08-06-97 21:50:30 * Projects thinks the OS/2 Applications Directory is the sucessor to "Sources and solutions"
08-06-97 21:50:32 <TedEWeasl> mandie: na... not at all. My mother at least will support me when I ask for it.
08-06-97 21:51:42 <Mount> There is phone# in the front for getting additonal copies. It is:203-452-7704
08-06-97 21:52:09 <Mount> I wonder if they still publish the book?
08-06-97 21:53:48 <MADodel> IBM probably maintains a wharehouse full of stuff from half attempted OS/2 promotions
08-06-97 21:53:52 <MADodel> :-)
08-06-97 21:53:56 <MHA1> There is also a fax # - 209-268-1075. I wouldn't count on those numbers still being good though. Book is from Fall/Winter 1994.
08-06-97 21:54:13 <MHA1> Sorry 209 s/b 203
08-06-97 21:54:16 <mandie> what publishing co?
08-06-97 21:54:32 <MADodel> You could always do an 'askibm' request for it
08-06-97 21:54:34 <TedEWeasl> Mount: maybe... Depends on how much of that book can be used by their current target group - that they'll just abandon.
08-06-97 21:54:58 <TedEWeasl> MADlog: just one wherehouse? :)
08-06-97 21:55:01 <Mount> mandie:ibm
08-06-97 21:55:06 <mandie> mount: ah :)
08-06-97 21:55:15 <MHA1> mandie: IBM Corp.
08-06-97 21:55:19 <MADlog> I didn't say anything :-)
08-06-97 21:55:31 <TedEWeasl> heh
08-06-97 21:55:46 <MHA1> Address is in Austin though, so may be still good.
08-06-97 21:56:00 * TedEWeasl thinks Mad needs to change his logger to something other than MADLOG. ;p
08-06-97 21:56:10 <MHA1> "IBM Sources & Solutions"
08-06-97 21:56:21 * MADodel is quite happy with his friend MADlog
08-06-97 21:56:30 <TedEWeasl> hehe
08-06-97 21:56:55 <TedEWeasl> How about HappyLog? :-)
08-06-97 21:58:26 <MADlog> ./nick :-)log
08-06-97 21:58:38 <TedEWeasl> heh
08-06-97 22:00:54 * MADodel has to get going. I'll leave the log running.
08-06-97 22:01:15 <TedEWeasl> MADodel: have a good time whatever yer doing.
08-06-97 22:01:33 <MADodel> TedEWeasl: trying to get my 2 hours of sleep
08-06-97 22:01:38 <MADodel> :-P
08-06-97 22:01:41 <TedEWeasl> heh
08-06-97 22:01:57 <TedEWeasl> well, then have a GOOD Sleep? <- see how that works in?
08-06-97 22:02:06 <TedEWeasl> err, first ? should be !
08-06-97 22:02:06 <TedEWeasl> :)
08-06-97 22:02:08 <MADodel> night all
08-06-97 22:02:17 <mandie> Mad: niters
08-06-97 22:03:02 <mandie> well, I'm going to take off also...have to try to get this email answered :(
08-06-97 22:03:12 <mandie> see you all in 2 weeks if not before :)
08-06-97 22:03:31 <Mount> Got to go, till next time.
08-06-97 22:04:02 <Abraxas> maybe I'll remember next time, and not be an hour and a half late
08-06-97 22:04:16 <Projects> well... I'm off too.