General VOICE Meeting: 14 August 2004

Chairman of the meeting Roderick Klein

Call the meeting to order.
1. Announcements
2. Old Business
      A) Status of VOICE Board of Director elections. (Roderick)
         (Nominations will be wrapped up at this meeting)
3. New Business.
      A) How should VOICE attract new YOUNG members. (Roderick)
      B) More open discussion days on IRC (Roderick)
      C) Announcement of first OS/2 VOICE Speakup in two years.
      D) Idea's for the VOICE website
4. Other Business
      Speak up, speak freely or wait for the next meeting :-)
5. Adjournment


08-14-04 15:04:48 EDT
<eCSNL^> This meeting of VOICE is now opened. [in session]
* eCSNL^ bangs his virtual chairman hammer on the table
<WalterOS2> Is there an agenda?
<eCSNL^> Yes it was included in the E-mail I send out.
<eCSNL^> One thing I need to do is upload the agenda
<eCSNL^> of the last meetings
<eCSNL^> to the VOICE server.
<eCSNL^> Have not found the time for doing that.
<eCSNL^> Sorry about that.
<WalterOS2> That's OK. Getting 1.2 out is probably more important. :-)
<eCSNL^> The first goal of this meeting is and was that people can step forward for a function on the BOD of VOICE
<eCSNL^> or nominate somebody.
<crimso> Has anybody found anyone who would volunteer for the marketing/liaison officer position? Being President keeps Roderick busy enough.
<WalterOS2> Has anyone asked Joachim Pottkamp about his nominations? Does anyone even know this Joachim?
<WalterOS2> Maybe he'd like to be Liaison officer. <g>
<WalterOS2> Gord, do you know if he's a member?
<eCSNL^> I don't know if that word was spelled correctly
<WalterOS2> I think you're right. Sorry about that.
<crimso> I've read Joachim's name before. Somewhere. Probably in the or forums.
* eCSNL^ now puts on the head of the election committee...
<WalterOS2> I think you mean "hat" <g>
<eCSNL^> :-)
<eCSNL^> :-)
<eCSNL^> Indeed we have had not much nominations
<eCSNL^> All nominations
<eCSNL^> where for people already on the board.
<eCSNL^> Only Mark Dodel was nominated
<eCSNL^> for the position of
<eCSNL^> Marketing Officer.
<eCSNL^> Now I have not yet been able to contact Mark on that nomination but I'm certain Mark has not giving permission for his nomination on that function.
<KenKrchnr> Mark's on vacation this week
<crimso> I would think so. Currently, he's on vacation.
<WalterOS2> Don't forget about Bill Loughman.
<eCSNL^> Bill Loughman was nominated by Mr Pottkamp from Germany.
<eCSNL^> But I guess the nominations page was not updated in time.
<WalterOS2> Who nominated Mark?
<eCSNL^> Bill stepped back as I reported on the previous meeting.
<eCSNL^> Mr. Pottkamp
<WalterOS2> Gord, is he a member of VOICE?
<KenKrchnr> The nominations page never had Bill's name once it was public.
<eCSNL^> Strange...
<eCSNL^> Anyway.
<eCSNL^> I guess nobody will step forward for a function on the
<eCSNL^> as candidate.
<eCSNL^> But people have the time until 17:00 New York time when this meeting closes to step forward as a member.
<eCSNL^> Uhuu pardon
<eCSNL^> candidate I mean.
<eCSNL^> Anyway nominated by Mr. Pottkamp are
<eCSNL^> Me Roderick Klein for President of VOICE
<eCSNL^> Walter Metcalf as Vice President of VOICE
<eCSNL^> Gordon as Treasurer of VOICE.
<eCSNL^> Mark Dodel his nomination as Marketing Officer I will ignore.
<eCSNL^> Based on what Mark has told me.
<crimso> I think you are safe to do so, given that it hasn't been long that he stepped back from being editor in chief of the Newsletter. I don't think he wants to trade one position for another.
<JWE> According to all the nominations put in by Mr. Pottkamp, he had received the permission of the nominee to put the name forward. I am not certain that this is so. If no permission was obtained then the nominations may be considered invalid.
<eCSNL^> I'm certain Mr. Pottkamp has misunderstood the permission
<eCSNL^> Because if you would do it according to the book.
<eCSNL^> He would have needed to ask me permission as well.
<eCSNL^> The fact that I'm on the list does not mean you are allowed to nominate me.
<eCSNL^> I'm honored Mr. Pottkamp nominated me.
<eCSNL^> But I never received an E-mail asking for permission.
<eCSNL^> Now the function of election board is hereby wrapped up.
<eCSNL^> But I just had a short phone call
<eCSNL^> one
<eCSNL^> person might forward for the position of Liaison/Marketing Officer.
<eCSNL^> That wraps up the election update.
<eCSNL^> Until the end of this meeting people can step forward.
<eCSNL^> The next part of the procedure will that
<eCSNL^> The election ballot will be available to VOICE members from August 16, 2004 - August 26, 2004
<eCSNL^> so they can cast there vote.
<eCSNL^> Now under new business
<eCSNL^> The following points are on the agenda:
<eCSNL^> 3) New Business. A) How should VOICE attract new YOUNG members. (Roderick) B) More open discussion days on IRC (Roderick) C) Announcement of first OS/2 VOICE Speakup in two years. D) Idea's for the VOICE website
<eCSNL^> I would like to do point C) first...
* eCSLiason changes hats again
<eCSLiason> OK the Speakup train seems to have been rusted to track after two years :-)
<eCSLiason> Adriaan Geschwend did not respond to my E-mail for the Speakup.
<eCSLiason> But he is very busy with Netlabs
<eCSLiason> and
<eCSLiason> he might be on vacation.
<WalterOS2> I have expressed the opinion to Roderick that I don't think we need a Marketing Representative. When we do the Bylaw revision I hope we can eliminate the MR, so that Roderick has to wear one less hat.
<WalterOS2> :-)
<eCSLiason> That is why I decided to scrap the Firewire Speakup for now.
<crimso> eCSLiason: Try to catch Adrian on IRC. He seldom answers e-mails.
<eCSLiason> But I finally wanted to organize a Speakup.
<eCSLiason> Dates and times have been send
<eCSLiason> and the guest of honour is Jan van Wijk
<eCSLiason> The author of Dfsee
<eCSLiason> I hope to organize a Speakup every month.
<eCSLiason> :-)
<eCSLiason> Something as part of my plans to get VOICE more to focus more on the other parts of the world
<eCSLiason> then just US and Europe...
<eCSLiason> As an experiment every Speakup will be held once.
<eCSLiason> uhuu
<eCSLiason> once=twice.
<eCSLiason> The first one is targeted at Europe
<crimso> eCSLiason: Did you also try to reach Adrian via phone? I might be able to get his number if you don't have it.
<eCSLiason> and America.
<eCSLiason> The other meeting will he held in the morning here in Europe
<eCSLiason> So people from Asia can also follow a session.
<eCSLiason> To late now...
<eCSLiason> For September
<eCSLiason> Dfsee is on the
<eCSLiason> agenda.
<eCSLiason> People reading this log or reading it here...
<eCSLiason> Why focus more on the rest of the world.
<eCSLiason> VOICE has members and I'm grateful for that.
<eCSLiason> However the VOICE member database is not reflecting the I which stands for International
<eCSLiason> More then 95% of the members are from the US.
<eCSLiason> I will never give the US or Canada less attention then other parts of the world.
<eCSLiason> But with VOICE Speakups targeted at different time zones
<eCSLiason> get in touch with local user groups
<eCSLiason> I want to get more people interested in VOICE.
<WalterOS2> Gord: Thanks. :-)
<eCSLiason> And also of course become a member.
<eCSLiason> As a start
<eCSLiason> next week I will send out an announcement about the Dfsee Speakup
<eCSLiason> every week
<eCSLiason> until the Speakup ups itself.
<eCSLiason> To draw enough attention.
<eCSLiason> OK that's it for the Speakups...
<eCSLiason> Now onto the next topic.
<eCSLiason> Where do we start
<eCSLiason> to attract new members.
<eCSLiason> for VOICE
<eCSLiason> Especially new young people.
<eCSLiason> I just want to put into the spotlight that on request Serenity Systems has decided
<eCSLiason> to introduce an educational version of eComStation 1.2
<eCSLiason> So what's so special about this thingy ?
<eCSLiason> Well its 30 Euro's cheaper then the full version of eComStation 1.2
<eCSLiason> But as an added bonus it included Open Office 1.1.1.
<eCSLiason> !
<eCSLiason> Saves you about 60 to 70 Euro...
<eCSLiason> (compared to buying the full product and OOO 1.1.1)
<WalterOS2> Anyone know what a euro is in CAD or USD?
<WalterOS2> Today, that is. :-)
<eCSLiason> 192 US dollars
<WalterOS2> Thanks. It seems that today 1 euro is very close to 1 USD. According to the Mensys site, that is. :-)
<MikeG> What is the real advantage to ECS 1.2 for someone with MCP2 and all fixes?
<crimso> 1 EUR = 1.23 USD
<WalterOS2> I recently tried to install Warp 4.0, and was shocked and horrified at how primitive it was compared to 1.2!!
<Gord> MikeG: You get the option to buy Smartsuite??
<eCSLiason> Well here is some other good news...
<WalterOS2> Don't forget that with MCD or Warp you have to mess around with 3 installation *diskettes* too!
<eCSLiason> The application pack can now be bought by everybody...
<eCSLiason> Well Walter, IBM supports
<eCSLiason> booting from CD.
<eCSLiason> If you know your way around with MCP then you might have a good ride.
<eCSLiason> I would like to suggest to move this question to the end of meeting.
<WalterOS2> Well, my Warp OSes don't install that way.
<crimso> From what we heard when manning the VOICE both at Warpstock Europe, we need to communicate the benefits of a VOICE membership better. The problem is that everything we do is freely available for everyone. So people say, "Why should I join? I get everything anyway." So we either need to explain that one needs to join VOICE so we can keep up the good work or offer members-only services. Or probably both.
<WalterOS2> I've been in favour of the latter for sometime. :-)
<Gord> And we need to get WarpDoctor going.
<eCSLiason> Well I have been thinking of some options :-)
<crimso> I'd love to offer a nicely laid out PDF version of the Newsletter that our members could print out.
<eCSLiason> And let me get to that in some minutes...
<WalterOS2> Once we proposed offering @OS2VOICE E-mail boxes for members.
<crimso> As always, the problem is manpower.
<WalterOS2> I found when I was President, that waiting for volunteers is pointless.
<WalterOS2> You have to find the people and then ask them.
<Gord> I like that E-mail box idea!!!
<crimso> Walter
<crimso> Sorry, wrong key. WalterOS2: I agree.
<eCSLiason> The idea sounds nice...
<eCSLiason> But then Ken would need to agree
<eCSLiason> (Bandwidth consumed on his line)
<eCSLiason> Plus the maintenance....
<Gord> And get some help.
<eCSLiason> Looking at
<crimso> And what about a members-only news server that carries all news groups that are relevant to OS/2 and eCS?
<crimso> With filters for TM and his friends.
<Gord> Heavily filtered.
<eCSLiason> People forgetting their password..
<crimso> Well, this would cause a certain amount of administration work, of course.
<eCSLiason> I think you should underestimate the work that comes with E-mail accounts...
<eCSLiason> I get too many e-mails of people asking "I lost my password and my changed my E-mail address"
<eCSLiason> Or I can't login anymore....
<eCSLiason> I think the best person to answer this is Ken
<eCSLiason> Ken what is the capacity of the VOICE server to handle this ?
<crimso> eCSLiaison: I think this could be done for our members. There are below 300.
<eCSLiason> And second what kind of bandwidth does the server have ?
<KenKrchnr> It can handle it if we're not talking unlimited binaries and such. It's on a T1.
<eCSLiason> As another point to push eCS slightly under younger people
<eCSLiason> The platform just needs *some* games...
<eCSLiason> Will it ever get to the level of Windows ?
<eCSLiason> Guess not...
<eCSLiason> But at the moment does card games, chess
<eCSLiason> in eCS
<eCSLiason> simply don't cut the cake...
<eCSLiason> One thing I have personally already supported with about $100 US dollars
<eCSLiason> is this project:
<eCSLiason> Now the first games are shootup...
<eCSLiason> But the last one looks better...
<eCSLiason> The point is they needed to come up with a game engine first!
<eCSLiason> And now they are writing small games...
<crimso> The guy who ported SDL has ported some emulators. And Darrell Spice has moved to the Mac. Maybe he could be convinced to open source his stuff so the SDL guy could incorporate the GUIs.
<eCSLiason> BTW that Russian link is off the air at the moment...
<eCSLiason> Seems
<eCSLiason> is down....
<eCSLiason> Or there is an internet hiccup..
<eCSLiason> Anyway there last game mission warp is kind of fun...
<eCSLiason> The other project is this:
<eCSLiason> SDL is a cross platform
<eCSLiason> game library ported by somebody from Hungary (as Crimso mentioned) and this library is still being worked on.
<eCSLiason> It will allow for easier porting of games from Linux to OS/2
<eCSLiason> Which brings me on the topic
<eCSLiason> I talked to Walter
<eCSLiason> some weeks ago.
<eCSLiason> Should VOICE support Netlabs ?
<eCSLiason> Some of the projects they are doing are being paid by hiring Russians.
<WalterOS2> I've been pushing for VOICE (financial) support of Netlabs for months. I thought we had made a motion to that effect a little while ago.
<WalterOS2> JWE, is there anyway to check?
<crimso> I second, er, third that.
<KenKrchnr> Christian had proposed that several months ago, I thought it was a good idea then. However, now it might be a good "carrot" for an answer to a Speakup date ;-)
<WalterOS2> We should decide on an amount before we can made a motion, shouldn't we?
<WalterOS2> Ken: :-)
<crimso> eCSLiaison: One game that would definitely rock is Enigma, a clone of the old Esprit and Oxyd games. It is based on SDL. Extremely addictive, I tell you.
<crimso> If someone ports that, I'll throw in my 30 EUR.
<JWE> WalterOS2, the only way is to wade through the minutes of the past meetings.
<eCSLiason> Have you got a link with some info on that game
<eCSLiason> Crimso ?
<crimso> The current version is 0.90. It is available via Yahoo groups.
<KenKrchnr> No motion was ever made to support Netlabs. The discussion was tabled for thought.
<WalterOS2> Thanks, Ken.
<WalterOS2> eCSLiason: Should we create a motion to support Netlabs?
<eCSLiason> Hmm well what is the goal of sponsoring ?
<eCSLiason> Get a game on OS/2 ?
<eCSLiason> Or just support any Netlabs project ?
<WalterOS2> Our goal or theirs?
<eCSLiason> Our goal ?
<crimso> As I have stated before, I think we should sponsor selected projects. Such that our members want VOICE to support.
<WalterOS2> I agree.
<eCSLiason> Great I have enough worries
<eCSLiason> everybody here think about it
<eCSLiason> And next meeting
<eCSLiason> We put the suggestions on the table....
<WalterOS2> It would probably be a good idea to contact them (via IRC, I guess) and find out if this sort of proposal would interest them.
<WalterOS2> eCSLiason:.....worries. :-)
<eCSLiason> OK I will shelve this discussion for now.
<eCSLiason> First I will contact Netlabs...
<crimso> WalterOS2: I hinted at the possibility when I first spoke with Adrian and Robert Henschel about the SpeakUp. Adrian was quite interested. I also mentioned that we could invite people from other user groups to attend so they could join forces.
<WalterOS2> OK, thanks.
<eCSLiason> I will bug KTK later...
<eCSLiason> When I have more time this month
<eCSLiason> Hmmm eCS 1.2 German is targeted in two weeks time...
<crimso> Oh God...
<eCSLiason> Relax
<eCSLiason> OK...
<MikeG> Speakup: How about Ulrich Muller ?
<eCSLiason> Noted
<eCSLiason> will ask him...
<eCSLiason> OK now
<eCSLiason> I promised I would get back
<eCSLiason> one another topic
<eCSLiason> Bonuses
<eCSLiason> for VOICE members
<WalterOS2> $$$?
<WalterOS2> :-)
<eCSLiason> Yep well once I'm president of VOICE that vacation to the Bahamas will finally become possible :-) :-)
<eCSLiason> OK serious how can be convince people.
<eCSLiason> Here are some ideas"
<eCSLiason> Ideas:
<eCSLiason> 1. When you are member of VOICE
<eCSLiason> you join the bimonthly lottery and win something.
<eCSLiason> The idea was put forward
<eCSLiason> some weeks ago I want to put into action.
<eCSLiason> Every member who is already member of VOICE
<eCSLiason> gets 1 lottery number.
<eCSLiason> However when you join VOICE for the first time in your life for one year you get 3 lottery numbers
<eCSLiason> for a whole year.
<eCSLiason> That means
<eCSLiason> 18 lottery numbers.
<eCSLiason> Sponsors would provide the software
<crimso> Why 18?
<eCSLiason> OK 2 lottery numbers for each price draw
<eCSLiason> And a price draw every two months.
<eCSLiason> And the benefit would last for a year.
<eCSLiason> I first thought 3 lottery numbers per price draw
<eCSLiason> But if you think that is to much :-)
<crimso> No, I just didn't do the math.
<eCSLiason> OK comment on the idea please ?
<eCSLiason> So two ideas into one...
<WalterOS2> Is this like virtual door prizes?
<eCSLiason> Loterug
<eCSLiason> What are virtual door prizes ?
<crimso> How do we convince sponsors to donate the software? What do we offer in return? Placing advertisements in the Newsletter?
<eCSLiason> I guess so...
<eCSLiason> And since VOICE already offers VOICE
<eCSLiason> sponsor possibilities...
<WalterOS2> In a physical UG meeting, people attending get a (raffle) ticket, and then there is a draw at the end of the meeting.
<WalterOS2> Like Warpstock often has.
<WalterOS2> I said "virtual" because there are no doors to our meeting rooms.
<crimso> There is always a "gateway". :-)
<eCSLiason> OK but do you think of the project ?
<crimso> Well, I like the idea. It was already done a few years ago.
<crimso> And once, I won three packages in Sundials quiz. :-)
<eCSLiason> Well I will add another exception.
<eCSLiason> If you win one month
<eCSLiason> you are not allowed to enter in the next prize round.
<WalterOS2> I'd prefer the term "raffle" to lottery, but other than that, I'm OK with the general idea.
<eCSLiason> But you are allowed to join the next one after that.
<WalterOS2> In North America, lotteries are used to generate cash for the government.
<WalterOS2> Raffles are used by nonprofit organizations (like User Groups and VOICE).
<WalterOS2> But that could be a cultural thing.
<eCSLiason> OK I will work on the details further...
<eCSLiason> Uhuu Gentlemen.
<eCSLiason> Times up.
<eCSNL> As acting president of VOICE
<WalterOS2> No, you *are* the President.
<eCSNL> and chairman of the election committee I hereby declare the "step forward/nominate"
<eCSNL> round closed.
<eCSNL> Its 17:00 New York time.
<WalterOS2> According the bylaws, when the President (me) resigns, the VP automatically becomes President.
<eCSNL> Ken could you make it possible
<eCSNL> that the VOICE members can vote
<eCSNL> What happens if nobody votes me for ?
<KenKrchnr> You can test it out at - http://www...004
<WalterOS2> I will vote for you, Roderick. :-)
<crimso> KenKrchnr: How do we handle a translation to German?
<KenKrchnr> If you'll take a look at the ballot and give me a translation I'll put both texts in. It may not even need as much text as I've added.
<WalterOS2> Ken: I just voted, and everything went very smoothly.
<KenKrchnr> Bear in mind that's not a real vote yet, I'll reset the E-mail list before sending the E-mail with the URL to the member list.
<WalterOS2> OK. Are you going to send out an E-mail to all members?
<WalterOS2> Oops. I just read the rest of your message.
<eCSNL> Will send it to the admin list so you can read it.
<WalterOS2> OK, thanks.
<eCSNL> Now
<eCSNL> All in favor of closing this meeting
<eCSNL> say Aye
<WalterOS2> Aye
<crimso> Aye captain
<JWE> Aye
<eCSNL> And who is against this ?
<eCSNL> to that question...
08-14-104 17:23:46
<eCSNL> I hereby declare this VOICE meeting closed
<eCSNL> See you all next time...
<eCSNL> Thanks for your ideas
<eCSNL> and time...


1. Election
      a) Nominations are closed
      b) Online ballots available from August 16-26, 2004
2. Speakup
      a) Jan van Wijk, author of DFSee to be at September Speakup
      b) Roderick will issue weekly announcements of Speakup
      c) The plan is for each Speakup to be repeated twice at different times to make it easier for the whole world to tune in
3. Should VOICE support Netlabs - decision postponed to next meeting
4. Bimonthly lottery/raffle as an incentive to become a member - decision postponed to next meeting

Submitted by John W. Edwards, Secretary