08-20-97 19:13:38 *** The topic for #VOICE is: Promote OS/2 discussion group
08-20-97 19:13:38 *** Topic set by VoiceBot on Wed Aug 20 11:02:42 1997
08-20-97 19:13:38 *** Names on #VOICE: MADodel0 @MADodel @VoiceBot
08-20-97 19:13:39 *** #VOICE Mode is (+ )
08-20-97 19:34:51 *** MADodel (~MADODEL@cable032110.cable.str.ptd.net) has joined #VOICE [19:34:51]
08-20-97 19:41:17 <Projects> Hiya
08-20-97 19:47:40 <mandie> hello :
08-20-97 19:47:46 <mandie> brb..coffee calls :)
08-20-97 19:47:53 <Projects> mandie!
08-20-97 19:48:02 * Projects passes mandie a )
08-20-97 19:48:17 <MADodel> good evening
08-20-97 19:48:33 <MADodel> Wonder if anyone else will show up tonight?
08-20-97 19:48:50 <Projects> good question...
08-20-97 19:49:39 * mandie doesn't know why...but she accepts the )
08-20-97 19:49:59 <Projects> hello :
08-20-97 19:50:06 <mandie> projects!! hi :)
08-20-97 19:50:18 <Projects> hiya mandie :)
08-20-97 19:50:36 <Guardian_> hello
08-20-97 19:50:42 <mandie> guardian: hiya
08-20-97 19:51:06 <mandie> guardian: that's a very nice page you have...can I use the Warpbox.gif on my page to link ?
08-20-97 19:52:06 <mandie> no party tonight :)
08-20-97 19:52:08 <Guardian_> mandie: sure, I got it from the Unofficial OS/2 Warp page (which wasn't updated recently), dunno where him got it from though
08-20-97 19:52:28 <mandie> guardian: ok, then it up for grabs :)
08-20-97 19:59:55 <mandie> caveman99: hiya :)
08-20-97 20:00:20 <caveman99> hiho. :-)
08-20-97 20:01:27 * caveman99 thinks he will turn on the logger and go to bed.
08-20-97 20:01:42 <mandie> Stryder should be here soon...we're going to discuss the questions that ppl want presented to IBM
08-20-97 20:01:51 <mandie> caveman99: niters :)
08-20-97 20:01:58 <caveman99> <- just came back from a one week trip into deepest Bosnia-Hercegowina :-)
08-20-97 20:02:15 <MADodel> caveman99: why?
08-20-97 20:03:17 <Guardian_> anybody here is sending someone from their local groups to warpstock on the group's budget?
08-20-97 20:03:43 <caveman99> mad: driving a couple of new cars for the UNHCR down there.
08-20-97 20:03:45 <mandie> guardian: now there a great idea!
08-20-97 20:04:05 <Projects> caveman: good trick... driving a couple of cars :)
08-20-97 20:04:21 <caveman99> projects: well, i wasn ot exactly alone :-)
08-20-97 20:04:30 * Projects can't multitask anywhere near that well :)
08-20-97 20:04:50 <mandie> guardian: are you going?>
08-20-97 20:04:53 <MADodel> caveman99: were you well armed?
08-20-97 20:05:31 <mandie> bummer...I forgot to call Thomas Bradford :(...will take care of that tomorrow
08-20-97 20:05:39 <caveman99> mad: the area where we delivered them to (Bicanzi/Mostar) is rated 'Security Normal'.
08-20-97 20:05:46 <Guardian_> mandie: maybe ;) I'm the president, we'll see if anyone is interested though
08-20-97 20:06:34 <mandie> guardian: which UG?
08-20-97 20:06:36 * MADodel doubts there is anything 'normal' about any place in the Balkins.
08-20-97 20:06:51 <mandie> Toronto?
08-20-97 20:06:54 <Guardian_> mandie: Montreal "english"
08-20-97 20:07:04 <mandie> oh, ok :)
08-20-97 20:07:25 <Guardian_> remember Elton ;)
08-20-97 20:07:30 <caveman99> mad: well, you would have been surprised. the place looked like a giant construction site. hardly any traces of the war left... (this is Croatian dominated territory, in the Muslim areas this looks a lot different)
08-20-97 20:07:33 <mandie> very well :)
08-20-97 20:09:32 <caveman99> oki, going to bed now... gonna sleep 3 or 4 days i think :-)
08-20-97 20:09:41 * caveman99 waves...
08-20-97 20:09:46 <Guardian_> bye bye
08-20-97 20:09:47 <mandie> caveman99: see ya :)
08-20-97 20:09:59 <Projects> cya
08-20-97 20:10:58 <MADodel> Guardian_: Are you Elton?
08-20-97 20:11:00 <Stryder> Hello all.
08-20-97 20:11:03 <Stryder> Sorry for the delay.
08-20-97 20:11:09 <mandie> stryder: hi :)
08-20-97 20:11:20 <Stryder> Had trouble connecting to my ISP.
08-20-97 20:11:24 <Guardian_> madodel: nah
08-20-97 20:11:39 <Stryder> Hmmmmm.... kinda slow I take it.
08-20-97 20:11:55 <Stryder> I can't stay long tonight, I found out today that I need to get an update resume ready by tomorrow.
08-20-97 20:12:09 <MADodel> Guardian_: ELton dropped out of OS/2 entirely?
08-20-97 20:12:30 <Stryder> Who is ELton ?
08-20-97 20:12:30 <Guardian_> madodel: oh no, he's still around
08-20-97 20:12:30 <MADodel> Stryder: you being downsized?
08-20-97 20:12:45 <mandie> Are you talking about Elton Woo ??...I was talkinga bout Elton John :)
08-20-97 20:12:50 <Stryder> Nahh, potential for a big promotion.
08-20-97 20:13:01 <mandie> stryder: g'luck!
08-20-97 20:13:04 <Guardian_> mandie: elton john!??
08-20-97 20:13:05 <Stryder> Thanks.
08-20-97 20:13:32 <MADodel> Stryder: that's great. You going to be in a position to kick some windoze butt?
08-20-97 20:13:50 <mandie> abraxas!!
08-20-97 20:13:57 <V_Abraxas> Hiya, mandie
08-20-97 20:14:06 <Stryder> Regrettably not MADodel. I have the inside edge though, I was working with the DMLSS AIS when it was still beta :)
08-20-97 20:14:18 <Stryder> Hello V_Abraxas.
08-20-97 20:14:22 <MADodel> Hello V_Abraxas what's with the nick?
08-20-97 20:14:36 <mandie> he's Virtual
08-20-97 20:14:38 <Abraxas> Alpha testing virc
08-20-97 20:14:48 <Abraxas> V(irc_Abraxas
08-20-97 20:15:03 * Projects quite likes virc
08-20-97 20:15:45 <Projects> Abraxas: you're behind... vircb60_* is available
08-20-97 20:15:55 <Stryder> So should we go with the agenda ? (not that there are that many folks that did not discuss it Monday )
08-20-97 20:16:06 <Abraxas> hehe...gonna have to get on Spoc about that
08-20-97 20:16:28 <mandie> stryder: yes
08-20-97 20:16:34 <Stryder> OK.
08-20-97 20:17:21 <MADodel> yes let's get it on
08-20-97 20:17:41 <Stryder> First item on the list: 1) *ONE* item per person that comprises the feature that the person would *MOST* like to see in the next version of OS/2.
08-20-97 20:17:49 <Guardian_> virc wassat?
08-20-97 20:18:20 <Projects> Guardian: Virtual IRC for OS/2
08-20-97 20:18:46 <Stryder> I would like to set up a page on the website that is a 'wish list' of the one feature that each person would like to see in the next version of OS/2. Note: this is not a program/port wish list.
08-20-97 20:18:54 <Stryder> What do folks think of that idea ??
08-20-97 20:19:21 <Stryder> For example (no surprise here) I would like to see SMP.
08-20-97 20:19:31 <Stryder> That is my most requested feature.
08-20-97 20:19:33 <mandie>
08-20-97 20:19:53 <Stryder> :)
08-20-97 20:20:41 * MADodel wants SMP
08-20-97 20:20:42 <Projects> Stryder: full win32 compatibility... I wanna be able to run NT apps
08-20-97 20:20:48 <Projects> that too, but I already used up my one choice....
08-20-97 20:21:13 * Abraxas would like to see AIQ
08-20-97 20:21:28 <Abraxas> besides the 2 already mentioned
08-20-97 20:21:28 <MADodel> As long as the win32 stuff is optional
08-20-97 20:21:29 <Projects> stryder: good plan
08-20-97 20:21:37 <Stryder> Abraxas I am not sure what you mean by AIQ ?
08-20-97 20:21:38 <Guardian_> stryder: didn't timmy do a list and abandonned it?
08-20-97 20:21:39 <Projects> mad: yup... like win-os2 is now
08-20-97 20:21:39 <mandie> I would like to see boot up time optimized
08-20-97 20:22:00 <mandie> timmy Timothy Sipples?
08-20-97 20:22:04 <Stryder> Guardian_ I think it was timmy. I know there was a list back in the pre merlin days, but it died :(
08-20-97 20:22:11 <Guardian_> stryder: async message queue
08-20-97 20:22:12 <Abraxas> Stryder: As in "One User...One Suggestion" and limit it so a user cannot make more than one suggestion?
08-20-97 20:22:14 * MADodel doesn't want any of that crappy windoze code screwing up his system.
08-20-97 20:22:18 <Stryder> Thought so.
08-20-97 20:22:35 <Stryder> Abraxas EXACTLY ! Make folks think about what they *REALLY* want.
08-20-97 20:22:40 <Guardian_> abraxas: remember that SIQ does have it's advantages and that some complex os/2 program would have to be remade to work with an AIQ
08-20-97 20:22:41 <Projects> MAD: I don't want to be railroaded into NT
08-20-97 20:22:59 <Stryder> Not just a long string of gee wouldn't this be nice by one user.
08-20-97 20:23:10 <Abraxas> Stryder: Asyncronous Input Queue (as opposed to the infamous Syncronous Input Queue (SIQ)
08-20-97 20:23:11 <mandie> projects: maybe an install option
08-20-97 20:23:52 <Projects> mandie: anything :) I just need to run an NT app or I'll end up going out of business :(
08-20-97 20:24:05 <mandie> projects :(
08-20-97 20:24:08 <Guardian_> projects: what is that NT app?
08-20-97 20:24:48 <Projects> Guardian: AutoCad... I run r13c4 here for dos in a VDM, but it doesn't support long filenames... that's the part that's hurting
08-20-97 20:25:13 <Guardian_> projects: why is that? you can rename them easily from OS/2 no?
08-20-97 20:25:32 <Projects> Guardian: and AutoDesk in all their infinite wisdom have desided to produce only win95/NT from now on...
08-20-97 20:26:23 <Projects> Guardian: ya, but using xrefs that someone else has done on an NT system means I must include the same xrefs back... I can work with the filenames renamed, but have to supply the proper filename when I turn in the project...
08-20-97 20:27:00 <Guardian_> projects: don't make new projects with it if you can ;) if not, well I really hope OS/2 will be able to run Win95 programs, cuz Java ain't gonna cut it
08-20-97 20:27:44 <MADodel> Anyone hear that Corel scapped the Java suite?
08-20-97 20:27:45 <Projects> Guardian: heh... I have one project on the go where I must put back the long filenamed xrefs when I'm done... have an NT box sitting beside me solely for that purpose...
08-20-97 20:27:54 <Projects> mad: yup
08-20-97 20:27:55 <MADodel> scrapped even
08-20-97 20:28:27 <Stryder> I am going to ask Ptackbar if he can design a page for the submission of ideas. There is that CGI again :) Then compile them prior to Warpstock and turn them over for presentation to IBM. What does everybody think of the idea ?
08-20-97 20:28:54 <Abraxas> Stryder: I think it's a great idea
08-20-97 20:28:54 * Projects has had no faith in Corel since Corel Draw/2 was dropped
08-20-97 20:29:02 <Stryder> I have said all along Java is never going to amount to much but a great scripting language :( The REXX of the non OS/2 world.
08-20-97 20:29:11 <Projects> Stryder: seconded
08-20-97 20:29:16 <MADodel> Stryder: there is already an IBM feature request page at IBM
08-20-97 20:29:24 <Guardian_> stryder: but much more complicated
08-20-97 20:29:51 <Projects> MAD: but this would help to get more exposure
08-20-97 20:29:51 <Stryder> I know MADodel, but how many users feel they *NEVER* get response from IBM ?
08-20-97 20:29:56 <Guardian_> Don't despair, BeOS and Rhapsody don't look so bad ;) let's see how these go
08-20-97 20:30:33 <Stryder> BeOS looks good, but suffers from some of the same things OS/2 is facing, lack of ISV's and apps :(
08-20-97 20:30:47 <mandie> stryder: not a good idea...the plan is to have this information for questions, suggestions and topics presented to IBM prior to Warpstock so that they can be ready for discussion..
08-20-97 20:31:03 <Stryder> What is the deadline mandie ?
08-20-97 20:31:09 <Guardian_> stryder: it's new on PowerMacs and PCs, let's see how Be copes with that
08-20-97 20:31:23 <mandie> stryder: That I don't know, but you could check with David on that...he's handling it
08-20-97 20:31:29 <MADodel> Unless the DOJ intervene, M$ will simply keep buying up all the latest technology and hoarding it.
08-20-97 20:31:34 <Stryder> Will do mandie.
08-20-97 20:31:45 <Abraxas> Stryder: I'd also like to see a list/explanation of the ramifications of implementing these "suggestions". Such as "What apps would quit working if OS/2 had an AIQ?"
08-20-97 20:32:07 <Guardian_> abraxas: the WPS probably :)
08-20-97 20:32:14 <Stryder> I fear that we would probably never know short of the next OS/2 beta (assuming they have one).
08-20-97 20:32:14 <mandie> hehe
08-20-97 20:33:07 <Abraxas> Guardian: that's my point....I'd heard that a "few" legacy apps (written for OS/2 1.3) would not work with an AIQ.
08-20-97 20:33:20 <Abraxas> But never considered that the WPS wouldn't work
08-20-97 20:33:21 <Stryder> Ok. I will ask Ptackbar and see how doable the idea is for the page.
08-20-97 20:33:26 <MADodel> They don't even have to buy the whole company, just hand out a 100 million here and there and get agreements to not allow anyone else to use it. Like RA :-(
08-20-97 20:33:40 <Stryder> Alright MADodel you have the floor on your HW page.
08-20-97 20:33:55 <Stryder> I say your since it was your idea, and is now your baby :)
08-20-97 20:34:03 <Guardian_> abraxas: the WPS is pretty complex, check the number of thread... it would prolly have to be rewritten to implent complex sync routine since the queue would no longer do it
08-20-97 20:34:29 <MADodel> Stryder: at this point we have designed a form and given it to David. He wants to do it in Domino, so we have to wait for him
08-20-97 20:34:43 <Stryder> That was short and to the point :)
08-20-97 20:34:56 <mandie> next :)
08-20-97 20:35:04 <MADodel> :-)
08-20-97 20:35:15 <Stryder> Ok last item....and I am sorry if I am rushing, but I have quite a bit of work left to do on that resume, as I have not updated it in two years.
08-20-97 20:35:43 <Stryder> Pankaj suggested we have a 'swap' page on the website where OS/2 users could sell/swap software and/or hardware.
08-20-97 20:35:47 <MADodel> Stryder: you mean you've done something in the last two years? :-)
08-20-97 20:36:01 <MADodel> Has anyone heard from Pankaj lately?
08-20-97 20:36:14 <Stryder> MADodel, I didn't say that :) I just need to make some stuff up :)))))
08-20-97 20:36:23 <mandie> stryder: I don't see how that ties in with voice at all
08-20-97 20:36:24 <MADodel> He hasn't responded to my email about changing the bylaws
08-20-97 20:36:29 <Stryder> I have not.
08-20-97 20:36:52 <Stryder> I also am concerned about the possibility of disputes and possible violations of licensing :(
08-20-97 20:37:06 <mandie> I say we stay away from it
08-20-97 20:37:13 <MADodel> mandie: Just providing a resource and a draw to our site
08-20-97 20:37:20 <Stryder> For example if somebody shows up and starts trading some of the software like Stardock's that has non transferable license...then what ?
08-20-97 20:37:27 <MADodel> Anyone know ipf?
08-20-97 20:37:44 <Stryder> Or God forbid warez trading....
08-20-97 20:37:56 <os2hq> Howdy, neighbors!
08-20-97 20:38:00 <mandie> os2hq: hi :)
08-20-97 20:38:01 <Stryder> Hello os2hq !
08-20-97 20:38:08 <os2hq> Glad I could make it!!
08-20-97 20:38:10 <MADodel> Can't it be moderated?
08-20-97 20:38:23 <os2hq> Another busy day fighting Packard Bells.
08-20-97 20:38:24 <Stryder> LOL
08-20-97 20:38:59 <os2hq> But I've gotten so good at it, the Boss is *ordering* used PBs so we can sell used systems!!!!
08-20-97 20:39:05 <mandie> I don't like the idea at all...there are marketplace ng's and lots of places on the web that they can buy/sell..
08-20-97 20:39:21 <Stryder> What do you think on the swap page Abraxas, Guardian_ ?
08-20-97 20:39:42 <Stryder> I vote no on the page for the reasons I listed above.
08-20-97 20:39:44 <Abraxas> I can picture a real nightmare in moderating a Swap Page.
08-20-97 20:40:20 <Abraxas> How can you check the license to be sure it's legal?
08-20-97 20:40:37 <Stryder> Exactly :( I don't want to be a test case in some court somewhere.
08-20-97 20:40:41 <os2hq> er, Swapping What???
08-20-97 20:41:06 <Abraxas> You'd almost have to setup a "consignment" where someone would recieve the actual software and check it before it could be placed on the page as "Available".
08-20-97 20:41:12 <Stryder> I have to split. Go ahead and kick it around. I have already expressed my opinion. I am sincerely sorry to cut out, but I have to get that resume done.
08-20-97 20:41:27 <Stryder> Take care all, and once again sorry about this.
08-20-97 20:41:33 <mandie> stryder: g'luck
08-20-97 20:41:39 <os2hq> Bye Stry!!
08-20-97 20:41:40 <MADodel> Bye Stryder
08-20-97 20:41:45 <Stryder> MADodel can you send me the log when you guys are done ? Thanks.
08-20-97 20:42:04 <os2hq> Okay, a "software swapmeet????"
08-20-97 20:42:17 <os2hq> I thought maybe for *drivers* this would be cool.
08-20-97 20:42:20 <mandie> os2hq: yes, on our web site
08-20-97 20:42:47 <os2hq> We should have a "master drivers list" for each OS. THAT would get some traffic.
08-20-97 20:43:02 <os2hq> And probably be legal, too.
08-20-97 20:43:12 <mandie> why would we want it for each OS?
08-20-97 20:43:24 <os2hq> Mandie: Merely to generate traffic.
08-20-97 20:43:51 <os2hq> Also, to compare OS/2 driver coverage with the others, and show it's not nearly as spotty as some people might think.
08-20-97 20:44:13 <mandie> I say we stick to OS/2..there are toooo many sites that are branching out and putting info about other OS's on thier sites..and it leaves ppl with the impression that they are moving away from os2
08-20-97 20:44:15 <MADodel> IBM's DDPAK online is fine for OS/2
08-20-97 20:44:17 <os2hq> And, this might just influence a few vendors to write drivers for OS/2.
08-20-97 20:44:28 <mandie> mad: I agree
08-20-97 20:44:39 <os2hq> Mandie.... could be right. "branching out" and "leaving" are too close in many minds. :(
08-20-97 20:44:59 <os2hq> MAD: I'll have to start checking there more often.
08-20-97 20:45:23 <os2hq> I was kind of thinking of our page as maybe a "dropoff point" when people find new ones, or a "request point."
08-20-97 20:45:37 <os2hq> Does the IBM DDP online have these features???
08-20-97 20:46:04 <MADodel> os2hq: it's laid out by device type. It's really useful.
08-20-97 20:46:22 <mandie> os2hq: no, basically they only offer directly from the vendors or that they've written
08-20-97 20:47:10 <mandie> I'd really like to see us get involved in os2 supersite in helping them get the Pharmacy up and running
08-20-97 20:48:04 <Abraxas> How about a Device Driver "Updates" page? New info on impending releases (lot's of this info can be gleaned from c.o.o.storage newsgroup).
08-20-97 20:50:45 <MADlog> oh oh
08-20-97 20:50:50 <mandie> yep :(
08-20-97 20:51:05 <mandie> same thing happened last night for our Warpstock mtg :(
08-20-97 20:51:50 <Abraxas> mandie: you given any thought to picking a different irc network for these meetings?? suntrix seems to be down more than up, lately.
08-20-97 20:52:13 <mandie> abraxas: I've noticed..they've moved and are trying to stabalize :(
08-20-97 20:52:58 <MADodel> Do we have anything else to discuss tonight?
08-20-97 20:53:21 <mandie> I don't have anything
08-20-97 20:53:59 <mandie> we need to have another Speak Up soon
08-20-97 20:54:03 <MADodel> We've discussed everything on the agenda. Does anybody want to add anything?
08-20-97 20:54:17 <MADodel> mandie: I was just thinking about that
08-20-97 20:54:25 <mandie> Mad: any suggestions?
08-20-97 20:54:33 <mandie> anyone have suggestions for a speaker?
08-20-97 20:54:42 <MADodel> Who would be a big draw? Think we could get Tim Sipples?
08-20-97 20:54:43 <mandie> or topic for discussion?
08-20-97 20:54:44 <Abraxas> What's happening with the Online Membership signups?
08-20-97 20:55:15 <mandie> Mad: I could check
08-20-97 20:55:34 <MADodel> Abraxas: It's being worked on. Judy is talking with BMT about credit cards
08-20-97 20:55:35 <Abraxas> I see where tandie is lining up the VP (Marketing IBMPSP) for a "soundoff"
08-20-97 20:55:38 <mandie> yes, will call Thomas tomorrow
08-20-97 20:55:43 <Abraxas> OK
08-20-97 20:56:07 <mandie> it's a matter of giving him the needed info..he has already said that he will be glad to do it
08-20-97 20:56:44 <mandie> then all we have to do is link to the reg page on BMT's site and they have secure registration
08-20-97 20:56:56 <mandie> but, this will just be for credit cards
08-20-97 20:57:28 <mandie> abraxas: yes, that's what he said
08-20-97 20:57:42 <mandie> abraxas: pretty hard to top that ;)
08-20-97 20:57:50 <Abraxas> yup!
08-20-97 20:58:13 <Abraxas> ALthough Timothy Sipples would be a good choice
08-20-97 20:58:17 <mandie> but, there are other speakers that are of interest to the os2 community ;)
08-20-97 20:58:20 <MADodel> What about getting Lawrie then?
08-20-97 20:58:39 <mandie> mad: sure, *you* have my blessings :)
08-20-97 20:59:16 <mandie> Lawrie is speaking at the POSSI Sept or Oct mtg
08-20-97 21:00:21 <mandie> well, if that's all for tonight..I'm going to be moving along :)
08-20-97 21:00:39 <mandie> I will check with Sipples and call BMT...anything else?
08-20-97 21:02:15 <mandie> I'd like to see us have a discussion one night about networking...os2 and diff OS's
08-20-97 21:02:32 <MADodel> How about Lou? I've been sending him alot of letters these days. :-)
08-20-97 21:02:47 <MADodel> mandie: what about that Summerfield guy?
08-20-97 21:02:49 <mandie> madodel: hehehe...you're probably right at the top of his *list* :)
08-20-97 21:03:36 <mandie> madodel: John Summerfield, yes..I used his page a bit when I was setting mine up...maybe a couple of ppl that have expertise in the diff areas
08-20-97 21:03:40 *** Guardian_ (guardia@slip129-37-165-123.pq.ca.ibm.net) has joined #VOICE [21:03:40]
08-20-97 21:03:55 <mandie> mad: David knows alot about networking also
08-20-97 21:04:10 <MADodel> A panel discussion
08-20-97 21:04:17 <mandie> yes
08-20-97 21:04:41 <mandie> he's tied up on Wed nights though :(
08-20-97 21:04:54 <mandie> ok, well..I'll see what I can come up with and pass it by the board :)
08-20-97 21:05:41 <MADodel> ok, let's call it a night
08-20-97 21:06:06 <mandie> do we have anything on our webpage for Suggestions for topics speakers etc?
08-20-97 21:07:03 <mandie> ok, calling it a night...nytol :)