SpeakUp with Andreas Linde from 09/04/99, Topic: "OS2.org, what can it do for OS/2 and its users?"

<Kerni>	I love Austin !
<David>	jogi: Agreed, only thing don't love is the HEAT
<Kerni>	been there twice... just great city
<Sector>	Eastern US time = GMT -4 currently (EDT)
<jogi>	Kerni: Yes, I hope I will be there if I will travel to Palo Alto one time :-)
<David>	jogi: Actually nice and cool outside right now - only 31c at the moment (11:56 AM)
<jogi>	David: Ups.. Hamburg, 24,6 degrees C :-) 7 p.m. local time
<jogi>	I am just writing to the German OS/2-Forum in CI$ that we are here, maybe there are commning some...
<jogi>	|lou|: Hehe, all #OS/2Ger' s are here :)
<MKH>	hi mok
<Abraxas>	We'll give it a few more minutes .... for the latecomers
<MKH>	jogi: thats good :-)
<double-p>	Hi lou, danke fuer die GetObj. sourcen
<Abraxas>	Looks like it pays to hold these on Saturday :-)
<Kerni>	Abraxas: k.
<double-p>	When do we start?
<Abraxas>	Right now :-)
<Abraxas>	I was hoping a few more Board members would join, but I guess they'll be along later
<Projects>	hey, where's the bot?
<Abraxas>	At any rate ....
<David>	oh where, oh where, did the little bot go...
<Abraxas>	It's my pleasure to welcome Andreas Linde (Kerni) to this Special Saturday Speakup
<Abraxas>	Kerni will be discussing os2.org, and what it mans for all of us OS/2 users
<Abraxas>	means, even
<Abraxas>	Kerni ... the room is all yours :-)
<Kerni>	thanks Abraxas
<Kerni>	well, OS2.org is now online for about 6 months. the year before it was a german only webpage
<Kerni>	OS2.org is aimed to present everything about OS/2 endusers need to make their daily work even better
<Kerni>	well, what else should I tell you... I suggest you start your questions or suggestions :)
*	Abraxas is currently perusing the site, now :-)
<Kerni>	-hehe-
<crimso>	first, congrats for the looks of OS/2.org. It's very readable and fast.
<jogi>	Kerni: Are there plans to make os2.org more public via newspapers etc. ? I think if the users who are not knowing that there is a great site for their problems never will find os2.org :-(
<Kerni>	crimso: thank you.
<Kerni>	jogi: how should we do that ?
<jogi>	Kerni: Maybe if sponsors spend money?
<Kerni>	btw.: OS2.org is maintained by 2 persons. Me as the programmer of all the database stuff, making the design and more. and Philipp Buehler as the PR man
<crimso>	Kerni: occasionally post to the comp.os.os2. * groups perhaps
<Kerni>	crimso: that's what I intend to do more and more in the future. sure.
<Abraxas>	Kerni we at VOICE have been discussing the same thing ... we assume that ALL OS/2 users have Internet access, and use it daily, to its fullest capability .... but we may be missing a very large segment of the OS/2 population
<Kerni>	Abraxas: that's right, but without sponsors I see no way to change that for any OS/2 page
<crimso>	Kerni: what about the OS/2 online magazines and OS/2 Only! in Germany?
<Abraxas>	Kerni regardless of the $$ involved, the big question is how to best reach them
<madodel>	Will os2.org have a presence at Warpstock Europe?
<jogi>	Abraxas: I don't mean the OS/2-power-users. I mean these ones, who have OS/2 but not using it. They think there is no support.
*	|lou| has set away! (auto away after idling [15 min]) [Log:ON] .gz.
<Abraxas>	jogi exactly ....
<Kerni>	well, another problem we have is, that I am not familier enough with any PR-related work yet, and don't have the time for that, 'cause coding ne php3-stuff for the pages and adding news takes a lot of it
<dave>	hi all
<EuxW>	Kerni: hmm. Russian Underground/2 web site now online about 1.5 years supported by 2 people and have no sponsors.
<Kerni>	madodel: yes, we have our own booth, and I will do probably 2 presentations
<Mok>	Well, there's that guy on os2hq.com who's renting out advertising at bus stops... :-)
<Kerni>	Mok: hehe
<Abraxas>	Mok yes ... and how effective will that be???
*	double-p would simply suggest that everyone who answers to a OS/2 related question on the news or on a mailinglist will but the question with the naser in the helpdesk and simply answer with a pointer to os2.org
<Mok>	Not my brilliant idea. Ask him.
<Abraxas>	Although it is inexpensive, how many of the target audience will it reach?
<dave>	MKH, could you please repeat that address for the ORC program at Leo
<Projects>	as many as bumper stickers will reach? :-)
<madodel>	it does make an interesting news story - An OS/2 user spending his own money to promote a product that a huge corporation won't spend a dime to advertise.
<MKH>	dave: yup .. but please wait a minute ...
<dave>	sure I got time thanks
<jogi>	Kerni: Maybe the US-guys will help to find sponsors for the US, the German's will meet together in Oct. and maybe we will find there some... I think it would be good, if there are commercials if the NOT-OS/2-accessed users will read abou us and our system. If they visit os2.org they will be surprised!
<Abraxas>	madodel hehe ... yes ... and sales are up in spite of them not trying to sell it :-)
<Mok>	As I remember it, his target address wasn't the casual OS/2 user so much as those who haven't tried it yet. Careful placement of the bench ads would ensure wide exposure.
<Kerni>	well, some data for you: we have around 9000 pageviews a day now, 3/4 german pages, 1/4 english ones
<jogi>	]OffTopic]SOCCER: Germany : Finland 2:0
<dave>	Reconita still in business, but no OS/2 support, that I could find
<Mok>
<Kerni>	jogi: well.. working together with os/2 only in germany would be an idea... we'll have to figure that out at warpstock europe
<jogi>	Kerni: Also you/we have to speak with the IBM and maybe Team OS/2. IBM is making a little news-paper only for OS/2-partners and maybe they will post an article?
<dave>	hey why is this page just repeating itself???
<Kerni>	jogi: they have a newspaper on os/2.... oh.. never heard that before
<madodel>	jogi: is this IBM Germany?
<jogi>	Kerni: Yes, I have it here :-)
<jogi>	madodel: Yes, IBM Germany :)
<madodel>	There is Warp FM, an online news letter of sorts by IBM
<jogi>	Kerni: Monika Zieliken made that.
<Kerni>	well, I don't see a problem in germany to get OS2.org pages better known and therefor OS/2... I see a bigger problem in the rest of the world
<madodel>	Ah, why can't IBM US do something to promote OS/2? Why is it only IBM Germany?
<dave>	ok, is anyone running an ORC program under OS/2, if so where can I find it??
<jogi>	madodel: Also that one (WarpFM) should post an article I think.
<Kerni>	madodel: well IBM germany doesn't do anything too !
<Shrike>	dave: What is ORC?
<Projects>	dave: ORC as in object recreation?
<crimso>	shrike: should mean OCR
<jogi>	Kerni: It called "IBM Warp NET"
<double-p>	kerni: Mazbe if my alter ego would get his butt up on IBM sponsoring an Auroracopy we could write a little artike for the OS&2/flash
<dave>	thanks again
<Kerni>	so OS2.org has the same publicity problems as anything else related OS/2....
<jogi>	Kerni: That was it what I wanted to say.... we have to make you(r site) more public!
<dave>	thanks on that OCR program!!! been looking all over the place,
<jogi>	Kerni: Hope we will talk about in a month :-) And thanks for answering here.
<Kerni>	jogi: sure
<Mok>	Okay, here's a question for you: what does this site do that others don't already?
<dave>	thanks for the site info
<Kerni>	Mok: we provide a meeting place at the web, to discuss anything your want (discussion board, helpdesk)
<Kerni>	Mok: daily news, where you also write your own comments
<Kerni>	Mok: monthly editorial, also with comments
<crimso>	Kerni: I think most people still know os2.org as another OS/2 news site like buntspecht.de. So it would be good to emphasize things like SOftWhere etc.
<Kerni>	Mok: a monthly survey
<Kerni>	Mok: SoftWhere!? archiv full of OS/2 Software
<jogi>	Mok: c't-magazine (www.heise.de) copied IMO the function from os2.org that you can write your statement to every news :-)
<dave>	is anyone having trouble running a Java chat program, or is it a problem with netscape 4.6.1? any special setting I should use?
<Kerni>	Mok: a tips database (that you all may enter your tips and howtos)
<mkh>	mok: and a lott of os/2 specialist are on the helpdesk and foroms
<Kerni>	and much more
<Kerni>	jogi: the os2.org server has the same internet connection as heise.de, even our server is right on top of heise.de-server (physically)
<jogi>	Kerni: Hehehe...
<Kerni>	Mok: and I have lots of new stuff in work.
<jogi>	Kerni: I wondered that I can now also write down my statements to the news there...I know this function only from os2.org.
<Kerni>	Mok: so, do ya know any other page, with that kind of content ?
<dave>	I have tried (internet adventure, ezirc, can't get them to work, could be my ISP IBM
<Kerni>	jogi: well. benews.com had it before us !
<dave>	IA 1.5
<crimso>	Kerni: I think most people still know os2.org as another OS/2 news site like buntspecht.de or Warcast.
*	jogi has set away! (eatingtime...will be back) [Log:ON] .DX.
<Mok>	For OS/2 news I usually hit the SuperSite. They have links to the new files uploaded to Hobbes.
<Kerni>	Mok: we do have the same. take a look at the main page, also LEO.org is included
<TheSeer>	Mok: so has os2.org
<madodel>	Kerni: what made you decide to start this site?
<Kerni>	crimso: well, warpcast is already a well established institution, that I like too
<Mok>	Exactly. My point is that it seems a duplication of effort.
<dave>	ex 1.2o
<Kerni>	madodel: my interest in OS/2, my interest in webdesign, and I didn't find anything on the web, that I liked.
<Kerni>	madodel: so I decided to take best of everything, and make some more, and do that page :)
<double-p>	Mok: os2.org also monitors links to drivers and generates a news message if it changed
<Kerni>	double-p: the software-update/driver section is a page that will be enhanced during the next months
<Kerni>	double-p: I want to add nearly every known OS/2 driver up there
<mkh>	crimso: the helpdesk of os2.org is growing ... and thats important .. the people use os2.org for diskussions, thats with the newst inforamtion .. i nerver had found that before
<TheSeer>	actually heise.de "stole" it from os2.org ( at least i guess os2.org was there before..)
<crimso>	mkh: well, if you need the lastest info it's still better to use WarpCast or buntspechte.de in Germany. os2.org still misses a lot.
<Shrike>	double-p: Now we're talking. Hang on to this topic. I would like one info src. Everyone can add a msg - & give it priority. Driver updates would be critical & so mailed to everyone on list.
<Kerni>	Mok: well, what should I say :)....
<Kerni>	crimso: like what ?
<TheSeer>	crimso: it depends on the point of view.. os2.org doesn't care about the 9999999
<TheSeer>	M$ is bad-news
<TheSeer>	so it's skipped..
<crimso>	Kerni: there's often news that I find on Warpcast and buntspecht, but not on os2.org. BTW, if that happens I usually write a message.
<Kerni>	crimso: well, I update that part as often I can, but without getting these news, I can't add them ! that's my problem
<crimso>	Kerni: however, most of messages didn't make it into the announcement board. Maybe a mailhost problem?
<Kerni>	crimso: so I have to search over these pages for news like you do
<Abraxas>	I'm not sure that having only one source of information is necessarily a good thing ....
<Abraxas>	But it is a good thing to have all OS/2 users know where they can go to get the latest info
<Abraxas>	os2.org, VOICE, Warpcast, etc
<Kerni>	crimso: well, can't say yet exactly. could be. but I will take a look at this problem :)
<crimso>	Abraxas: That's why I usually use several sources for information
<double-p>	Well the "Problem" with news is that people still onlz post their news to warpcast and buntspecht. So we have to colect them and add them. And as OS&2.org is Bilingual this has to be done manuallz to translate at least the headlines
<madodel>	I generally check several OS/2 news sites everyday. I don't see why people don't like to get a variety of news sources. If one site misses something, another is sure to pick it up. I think os2.org offers a lot more then just news, which is why it is evolving into a major site.
<Kerni>	well, my intention with OS2.org is also, to present everything you all would like to have
<dave>	anyone in here from SCOUG?
<Mok>	I'd like a life. Where can I download that from?
<Sector>	StevenL
<crimso>	Mok: a good one or a bad one? he he he
<Kerni>	I don't consider it as a one day finished page
<Kerni>	that's also a major difference compared to the other pages
<Kerni>	I also don't like to just take over others people stuff, and present it under the OS2.org label
*	jogi has returned. .DX.
<Pliny>	Kerni: I too agree that more than one site is preferable. I looked through OS2.org for the first time last night and was very impressed with what you have done!
<crimso>	Kerni: That's a noble attitude. But I think you'll have to for e.g. SoftWhere to get things going.
<Kerni>	what I#d like to get, is all your ideas and more :)
<Kerni>	crimso: what do I have to ?
<crimso>	Kerni: take other people's stuff and present it at os2.org (review etc.)
<Abraxas>	Kerni One thing I've always felt would serve the OS/2 community is multiple sources of information, no duplication of effort, and a grand sense of mutual cooperation among all the sites
<Kerni>	crimso: but how ? softwhere was offered as, because the former administatrator wasn't able to handle it any more and had no time to work on it in future
<|lou|>	Kerni: what about a feature that uses an os2 client and examines the system and then proposes updates with easy download + installation. That would be great!!!
<Kerni>	Abraxas: well, we'd love to cooperate with other sites, and also asked the big ones (already mentioned)
<double-p>	Abraxas> Well os2.org alreadz coops with netlabs
<crimso>	Kerni: maybe you could collect info from other sites (if the authors' will allow this). I know there are not many offers like that, but it would be something to start with
<Abraxas>	Kerni and we (VOICE) are working on an area of our website to be dedicated to other support sites and user groups
<Kerni>	Abraxas: but until today, we only gad "not possible" responses (except buntspecht.de)
<EuxW>	Abraxas: really?
<Kerni>	|lou|: I thought about that idea too, and I am really open to that. But I can't do that alone
<Kerni>	double-p: right, cooperation with netlabs is going more than great
<Abraxas>	EuxW Yes!
<|lou|>	Kerni: it could start with a "Are you prepared for Y2K?" feature where a small program would send the syslevel output to the server and it would parse it...
<Kerni>	netalbs and OS2.org work just perfect together, and will enhance their cooperation in the future !
<crimso>	|lou|, Kerni: How could that be done?
<|lou|>	Kerni: that would be a huge promotion feature for os2.org!
<EuxW>	Abraxas: sounds good.
<double-p>	lou: You mean fixpacks and drivers ?
<|lou|>	double-p: yes, maybe later software
<Kerni>	crimso: installing a deamon at os2.org, that uses the database informations of the software-updates/drivers pages
<|lou|>	double-p: at IBM, they have a program called ClickNet that examines your OS/2 system and sends the data to a server which then tells them what to do for Y2K
<Kerni>	crimso: that way also online-updates would be possible one day
<crimso>	Kerni: I guess that would require a LOT of work
<jogi>	|lou|: I channeld warpstock.de, buntspecht and os2.org together - so no time for kerni, only putting the Icon on the site. If we all want content we must do it and give it to os2.org - they make it public. The Hardware Compatibility List isliving from OUR work, not from os2.org.
<Kerni>	crimso: well, some c coding work, yes :)
<Kerni>	jogi: also the tips-pages !!
<Kerni>	we see OS2.org as a page FOR os/2 users BY os/2 users !
<jogi>	Kerni: Yes! And THAT IS WAS THE OS/2-GUYS MUST LEARN: You give the site and we give the content for all. Everybody have small work to do, but all together it is a huge content!
<double-p>	jogi: Or the Helpdesk & Softwhere
<Kerni>	jogi: correct.
<jogi>	double-p: Yes, yes...it was an example :-)
<EuxW>	jogi: and search in news and all site
<jogi>	EuxW: It would be great if all make their news public with a specification os2.org can use to put in a database, so they only have to grabb it.
<Kerni>	jogi: but that for, OS2.org needs to get better now, as we discussed before .)
<Kerni>	now=known
<madodel>	Kerni: who does the translation of your news pages? Do you do all that yourself?
<Kerni>	madodel: yes
<Kerni>	everything you see at OS2.org is done and written by me
<jogi>	Kerni: The FORMAT you want to get the news you never posted. Maybe it would be better if you will get news like a FILE_ID.DIZ or something like that (for news) that you have only to click one time and the news is public?
<Kerni>	all the content and the coding
<double-p>	One thing ever current user should do is f.i. go to the HCL and check if your current/prev HW is in it if not add it if it is rate it
<Mok>	Kerni: sounds rather time-consuming.
<Kerni>	jogi: well, I am working on an online-formular, also with the possibility sending the text right to OS2.org AND warpstock AND os2ss/news AND buntspecht.de !
<Kerni>	Mok: thats correct
<double-p>	moK. ZOu can|t automate translation, unless zou want to sound like babelfish
<Kerni>	I spend at least 1 hour a day working on OS2.org
<Mok>	Ah yes -- Babelfish. Two or three translations and one begins to sound like Yoda. :-)
<Projects>	hahahaha
<Kerni>	hehehe
<crimso>	Mok: futile resistance is!
<jogi>	Kerni: I hope that buntspecht.de will work after Warpstock Europe together with os2.org - it is better we have ONE GOOD site, not two typing nearly the same ...
<double-p>	Kerni: Might be good if you would have a way that multiple people could check for News to be translated and translate it
<Kerni>	jogi: we tried to combine buntspecht.de and os2.org when os2.org was in work, but somehow everyone went his own way
<Kerni>	double-p: I am planning something like that... it's in the queue
<trouvere>	sorry
<Sector>	For what?
<Mok>	"Daddy! He's pinging me!!!" :-)
<TheSeer>	.-)
<Projects>	TheSeer only has one eye?
<Kerni>	so my question to you is again: what would you like to see at OS2.org ?
<jogi>	So guys, it was nice to be here. Hope we will meet some day again? OS/2 WARP the ONE and ONLY! Cu l8er!
<Kerni>	and do you have any practical ideas on how to get the page better known in public ?
<MKH>	mok: os2.org is like a child, it can do everything .. but it is going bigger and better ..
<jogi>	Kerni: I will make a database with StarOffice and hope you can convert it!
<Kerni>	MKH: nice comparison :)
<MKH>	kerni: the truth :-)
<MKH>	kerni: os2.org will be better .. slow .. but better :-)
<Pliny>	Kerni: Thanks for all of your effort. Know that it is appreciated!
<crimso>	Kerni: maybe the german teamos/2 clubs could make a combined advertisement (the clubs and os2.org to get OS/2 information or the like)
<Kerni>	crimso: well, that could be discussed at warpstock europe, where we all will be
<crimso>	Kerni: yes! I certainly will since it's happening right outside my door :)
<MKH>	crimso: i thinos2 .org need more public sctions
<MKH>	crimso: like the helpdesk ..
<Mok>	Ah. Homeboy.
<Kerni>	MKH: more ? like what ?
<crimso>	MKH: I think with SoftWhere, the Helpdesk, the discussions there already are a lot of sections. What needs to be done is filling up the databases.
<MKH>	crimso: maybe there could a special section for programmers, .. sibyl has now there own cvs server at netlabs, why no diskussion forum about sibyl, visual age, networks ...
<Kerni>	MKH: well, netlabs will be the place for all developer stuff !
<MKH>	crimso: you are right, the databese musst filling up
<double-p>	MKH> The place for this would eb netlabs
<crimso>	MKH: sounds very nice, but tell that to Kerni! On the other hand I agree with double-p and there are the newsgroups...
<MKH>	kerni: i know, i dont mean developing, i mean supprt of everything, not only developoment .. networking, installation ..
<Kerni>	if serveral os/2 pages would work together, starting a "campaign" for making OS/2 and the pages better known ? how about that ?
<MKH>	kerni: thats great
<Kerni>	MKH: netlabs will get discussion forums like OS2.org has, for each project !
<MKH>	crimso: there are a lot of user, there dont know about newsgroups ..
<Kerni>	MKH: so you think we should open up more topic-specific discussion forums at os2.org ?
<trouvere>	Kerni, thanks for your good work. Gotta go now
<Kerni>	Abraxas: what do you think ?
<MKH>	kerni: i wrote, not only development .. i mean a peer sektion, atcpip section ...
<MKH>	kerni: yes, more topic specific disssion forums
<crimso>	MKH: programmers? hm. those discussion boards on the www are nice, but the Usenet is faster and more flexible (think of e.g. dejanews)
<Kerni>	MKH: hmm..... what do the others think about that ?
<crimso>	Kerni: for the sake of speed and flexibility I think you'd better add links to the apropriate newsgroups
<Kerni>	the best would probably be, combine those newsgroups with the discussion boards... but that means a lot of work
<MKH>	crimso: i know .. but i meet a lot of people they dont know news .. but the know www :-(
<double-p>	Mazbe have some kinda radiobuttons / checkboxes where zou could mark a diskussion belonging to a topic
<Abraxas>	Kerni ... sorry ... my system multi-tasks much better than I do :-)
<Kerni>	hehe
<Abraxas>	What were you asking me to comment on?
<Kerni>	if serveral os/2 pages would work together, starting a "campaign" for making OS/2
<Kerni>	and the pages better known ? how about that ?
<crimso>	Kerni: another advantage of newsgroups is that you can look around and suddenly fall over the solution of a problem that bothered you for ages though you weren't actually searching for it
<Kerni>	crimso: well, you can do that on www too :) even SEARCH for it :)
<Abraxas>	Kerni I like that :-)
<crimso>	Kerni: with AltaVista? Come on...
<Abraxas>	It embodies the spirit of cooperation as well as disseminates information in a timely manner
<Kerni>	crimso: forums at OS2.org and are searchable :)
<Kerni>	Abraxas: well, shouldn't be a problem for us two :)
<Abraxas>	As I'm sure you are learning, trying to do "it all" is difficult given the number of people working on a project, and the number of hours in a day
<Abraxas>	And trying to find more help is even harder ....
<Kerni>	Abraxas: sure :)
<Abraxas>	If os2/org has a feature that is very useful, there is no point in other sites trying to do the same thing ... just link to that site
<crimso>	Kerni: well, I think setting up such boards wouldn't be a bad thing. However must message boards I visited until today were painfully slow and awful to deal with
<crimso>	must=most
<Kerni>	crimso: did you try OS2.org boards yet ?
<Kerni>	crimso: it IS very fast :)
<Abraxas>	The other side of that is that if another site has a good feature, jsut link to it, rather than trying to duplicate it
<MKH>	crimson: the boards on os2.org are fast and easy to use
<Kerni>	Abraxas: correct
<crimso>	Kerni: I read a bit about the new editorial and used the ones commenting on news.
<Abraxas>	There shouldn't be any reason to have 6 websites with 6 different help desks ... pick the best one, and the other 5 can link to it
<Abraxas>	Just an example, mind you
<crimso>	Kerni: Maybe it's just my internet connection that's painfully slow sometimes.
<Kerni>	crimso: well, I get all the pages within a second !
<Kerni>	Abraxas :)
<Abraxas>	Of course, the other factor is the language barrier
<Kerni>	Abraxas: but that for, all the big pages should work together, and not against each other
<Abraxas>	Exactly
<double-p>	kerni: the problems are the banners on the pages
<Kerni>	which banners ?
<double-p>	if zou coop you might loose some pageviews on your page so you probalby get less monye from the banneradds
*	double-p hates an english keyboardlayout with german keycaps
<Kerni>	sure, but that also means less work for us
<MKH>	abraxas: os2.org need one or 2 amircan guys to serve the english spooken part..
<madodel>	Problem is we don't speak/read German. I wish I did, but don't.
<MKH>	abraxas: the german part is growing .. and become better and better .. but i think, we havenot enough american visitors, wich use the potential on os2.org
<double-p>	madonald you don't have to read or speak germn for that
<Abraxas>	MKH Do you mean German - to - Englsih ... or just an English ONLY?
<MKH>	abraxas: i mean english ONLY
<Abraxas>	Ahhh ... OK MKH
<MKH>	abraxas: germans can read english, but i think, only few american people can speak german :-)
<Mok>	"Volkswagen".
<Mok>	:-)
<MKH>	abraxas: first there was os-2.de now, os2.org. org means international ..
<Projects>	and american people have a problem with english too
*	Projects runs
*	Abraxas had 2 years of German language in High School (20+ years ago) ....don't remember any of it
<Mok>	Why run? You're right.
<madodel>	Well those snotty Brits think they invented the English language
<Projects>	hehehe
<Abraxas>	check, please!
<MKH>	abraxas: i think the next step to get os2.org better, is to push it on america
<Projects>	I may be right, but I'm usually outnumbered :)
<double-p>	Pro: The speak spanish in the us don't they?
<Mok>	Yep.
<Redoaks>	MKH:how many Germans use the US sites?
<Abraxas>	double-p ... in Miami, So. Calif. and Texas :-)
<Projects>	double-p: yup
<MKH>	redoaks: i use some american sites
*	double-p uses edm/2
<Redoaks>	Most sites are linked-that's how I first visited some
<Kerni>	ok, we went down to the points: the big pages should work together, and also coop in "marketing" stuff
<MKH>	kerni: yes.
<Abraxas>	Kerni yep!
<Kerni>	any ideas HOW this practicaly may work ?
<Abraxas>	I don't know if VOICE qualifies as one of the "big sites" ... though I'd like to think that we will :-)))
<double-p>	we should form some kinda webring like "the OS/2 Inforing" with os2.org netlabs, voice and maybe os2hq and buntspecht
<double-p>	I think the other sides simply want to join, 'cause the don't want to be left out
<crimso>	double-p: this sounds great. how big an effort would be neccessary to make it real?
<Kerni>	double-p: well, I personally don't like that existing webring, the way it works. what do you think of ?
<double-p>	crim: Create an Name and logo (50% done) get the sides togehther os2.org netlabs are alreadz working 2gether
<crimso>	Kerni: I have an idea for a new section for os2.org! A thing that's really needed is a XFree86 environment and programs setup guide.
<MKH>	crimso: good idea :-) are you host it?
<crimso>	Kerni: setting up a *nix environment under OS/2 is a real pain if you have to do it all yourself
<double-p>	Kerni> does a ring with this name exist ? I just made it up!
<Kerni>	crimso: well, I think this could be included in the tips section !
<Kerni>	crimso: just as a "tip" or "howto"
<Kerni>	double-p: there is a os/2 webring
<MKH>	kerni: i think crimso means not only how to .. he means an interactive system like the helpdesk
<crimso>	Kerni: a full featured guide would be BIG
<Kerni>	crimso: where's the problem ?
<Kerni>	crimso: there will be a group "XFree" in the tips-software section
<Kerni>	then all the questions are the next list
<double-p>	Kerni: I know but I thought of something like a logo which gets zou to a page wtih links of all sides in souch a @ring@
<crimso>	MKH: that would be even better! I was thinking of a step by step guide.
<Kerni>	crimso, mkh: there is no problem with your logic and the way the tips-pages work !
<MKH>	crimso: hmm .. h. veith have this .. a step by step guide ..
<double-p>	Kerni: I thought of our own "ring"
<Kerni>	double-p: hmmm... how exactly should it work ?
<MKH>	kerni: yup, i think teh tip pages great
<crimso>	MKH: I know, but it's only for XFree itself and some important thing (GNU utils) are missing.
<Kerni>	take a look at http://en.os2.org/tips/programs/
<Kerni>	there you choose the software category
<Kerni>	then http://en.os2.org/tips/programs/?section=6
<Kerni>	there you choose the software
<Kerni>	then http://en.os2.org/tips/programs/?group=28
<double-p>	Kerni: each side should display a logo of the "inforing" an below a random logo of an other side in the ring
<Kerni>	there you choose the question
<Kerni>	and this step by step could be a question for each step !
<double-p>	Like os2.org is a member of the "Inforing" visit our partner "Netlabs"
<Kerni>	double-p: sounds good for me
<double-p>	If you click on the inforing logo zou come to a page with all the sites in the ring if you click on the partner log ouz come to that side
<double-p>	Not much work, dosn't take to much screen estade and is easz done
<Kerni>	yep
*	double-p has to leave, I'll stay in the # so that Philip can read the rest of the discusion when he finally awakes
<Kerni>	:)
*	double-p was actually hugh_
<madodel>	The log of today's speakup will be posted to the voice site when it is completed
<double-p>	maybe later on #os2ger
<Kerni>	k.
<madodel>	the VOICE newsletter has a fairly extensive tips section, but no easy organization to access the info. Perhaps you could use some of it in your tips section?
<Kerni>	madodel: that is no problem for us
<Kerni>	madodel: all depends on you
<madodel>	Depends on me how?
<Kerni>	well, you may add them yourself to the database :)
<Kerni>	the data is yours (VOICE) right now :)
<madodel>	How does one do that? i looked at the tips section onn os2.org and didn't see an entry area
<Kerni>	top right
<Kerni>	"(New Tip)"
<Kerni>	madodel: you have to choose a section first (software, hardware, system) !
<double-p>	me, myself and I
<madodel>	Ah, I didn't realize that was a link
<Kerni>	hmmm... I probably should mark those better :)
<madodel>	The HelpDesk link is blue, but the New Tip link is black
<spTim>	hi
<Kerni>	madodel: hmmm... not here
<madodel>	You should highlight the search as well
<Kerni>	"(New Topic)" is also black
<Kerni>	will do that...
<Kerni>	hi spTim
<madodel>	It is in Comm/2 4.61B2 here
<Kerni>	same browser here
<madodel>	hmmm, wonder why that is?
*	Kerni too, also because I know the HTML-code :)
<Kerni>	ok guys, how do we start in working together, and starting a new ring and a promotion campaign ?
<madodel>	well there already is a Warp Web ring. How did they start that one?
<Kerni>	well, I don't like that one very much
<Kerni>	its more a homeuser ring
<Kerni>	I would prefer a somewhat "qualified" version
<madodel>	I realize that, but they use a site to host it. Can't one be set up similarly, but for OS/2 Info sites?
<Kerni>	hmmm... should be no problem at our server
<Kerni>	I would suggest to write down some qualification points, to get added to such a ring
<Kerni>	madodel: btw. you could also send me the tips you would like to see at OS2.org via email, and I will include them into the database
<madodel>	Do you verify tips? I don't see a place to enter a source for a particular tip.
<Kerni>	yep
<Kerni>	I will see them in our admin-interface, edit them, and set them online
<madodel>	I will look into entering what I can. We probably have a couple hundred in back issues by now.
<Kerni>	what for ?
<madodel>	what for what?
<Kerni>	oh, sorry, now I understand :)
<Kerni>	well, a couple of hundret... uih :) probably it would be better add them via script and not each one by hand
<madodel>	Kerni: problem is they are not sorted by type/area