General VOICE Meeting - 2 October 2004

Call the meeting to order.
1. Announcements
2. Old Business
     A) SpeakUp (Roderick)
     B) Lottery for members.(Roderick)
3) New Business.
     A) Treasurer report (Gordon)
     B) Do we want to renew the NORMAN anti virus licenses. (Gordon)
     C) Should VOICE support Netlabs - decision postponed to next meeting (Roderick)
     D) A representative of VOICE present at Warpstock (Gordon)
     E) Reduce to 1 VOICE business meeting a month? (Roderick)
3. Other Business
     Speak up, speak freely or wait for the next meeting :-)
4. Adjournment

Summary - Decisions/Announcements Made
1. Treasurer's Report
     Outstanding cheque problem cleared up.
     Second signing authority - Walter has volunteered.
2. Renewal of Normal AntiVirus licenses
     Some licenses due for renewal in November.
     Further details to come at next meeting.
3. VOICE representation at Warpstock
     No volunteers came forward at the meeting, VOICE representation to be done by Roderick Klein.
4. Next meeting will held on the 16rd of October.

Meeting Log
Chairman of the meeting Roderick Klein called the meeting to order at 15:13:03 EDT
* eCSNL opens up this meeting.
* eCSNL hits the hammer on the table.
<eCSNL> First agenda point.
<eCSNL> I will move on to the points Gordon put the agenda
<eCSNL> since they got pushed to this meeting since Gordon was not present at the last meeting.
* eCSNL moves the microphone to Gordon.
<Gord> Treasurer's Report ...
<eCSNL> So Gordon how we are doing financially ?
<Gord> In my last report I mentioned there were two cheques from BMT Micro that had gone missing.
<Gord> I asked Jenni at BMT if they had been cashed.
<Gord> She said "No".
<Gord> I had here stop payment on the cheques.
<Gord> They have been reissued to us and deposited.
<Gord> This cost us a hefty service charge but the issue is now closed.
<Gord> The bill from Walter for the shipping of VOICE1 has been paid.
* eCSNL wants to ask a question
<Gord> The normal flow of renewals is continuing.
<Gord> Go ahead.
<eCSNL> How much money is collected via BMT Micro over a year (on average?)
<Gord> Question noted. I will find an answer and report later.
<eCSNL> How often does BMT Micro send a cheque ?
<Gord> Hard to say as I haven't been doing this job for a year.
<Gord> Once a month.
<WalterOS2> Speaking of shipping VOICE1, somehow UPS managed to loosen every screw and loosen or remove every cable. :-( :-(
<eCSNL> Is it not cheaper and safer Gord to save up the payments to lets say once every 3 months and just do an electronic bank transfer instead of these goofy cheques?
<Gord> The issue of having a second signing authority is still outstanding.
<Gord> We have now had an election and I think we should do something about it.
<eCSNL> Two of them "got lost" (which is neither our fault of BMT there mistake). An electronic transfer on the other hand is very safe.
<WalterOS2> Not from what BMT Micro said. I guess eFT in the US is extremely expensive. Go figure.
<Gord> Walter has volunteered to be the authority.
<WalterOS2> I just need a letter of authorization.
<WalterOS2> I'm going to send Gord several copies of our letterhead.
<Gord> Do you want the bank account balance here?
<WalterOS2> On which Gord will write the letter.
<eCSNL> OK this is basically a point that was not on the agenda. Could this please be moved to a later point in the meeting ?
<WalterOS2> It was part of the treasurer's report.
<eCSNL> ah OK, sorry.
<Gord> The issue of the missing cheques is part of a bigger picture which I hope is now over.
<Gord> There have also been reports from Mark Dodel and a couple of members that they sent
<Gord> cheques to the treasurer which were never cashed.
<Gord> So far, in each case, the cheques have been replaced.
<Gord> (Mark's cheques was for last year's Warpstock memberships.)
<Gord> Backups of critical VOICE files are now being sent to the VOICE server.
<Gord> These files include the VOICE E-mail account, the VOICE set of InCharge books
<eCSNL> OK. In my opinion if cheque's in the future still get last we should look how much a cheque transfer cost and how must an electronic transfer costs and consider switching to it. VOICE has enough funding that I think it does not matter if there is a
<Gord> and the write up I have done on how to do the job.
<eCSNL> bank transfer every month or every 3 or 4 months.
<Gord> I think the missing cheques had a lot to do with the breakdown of the last treasurer.
<eCSNL> Sorry about that interruption that's all I had to complain about cheques in general :-)
<Gord> Somehow the situation got away from him.
<eCSNL> Thanks for all the work you are and still punting in to streamlining everything.
<Gord> Maybe that contributed to him not wanting to do it anymore.
<Gord> Your welcome.
<eCSNL> You had other points on the treasurer report ?
<eCSNL> If not how money is in our bank account (important item on the treasurer report :-), are rich or broke :-) )
<Gord> Only the account balance, if you want it. Do you have a current total of members?
<Gord> Canadian dollars: $10,514.
<Gord> Approximately 115 members.
<WalterOS2> How about U.S. $ and Euros ? :-)
<Gord> Canadian dollar is about 78 cents US.
<Gord> US $8200.
<Gord> No idea what the Euro is.
<Gord> There are some requests for membership renewal outstanding.
<Gord> End of report.
<WarpedOS2> 6713.49 Euro EUR 6.712
<eCSNL> On the point of the treasurer report.
<eCSNL> Just a silly question. The VOICE server that is now running, where did the hardware come from ?
<eCSNL> Was this donated or did VOICE purchase that ? according $US 1.00 = 0.81 EUR as of now
<WalterOS2> Ken donated it. I believe that is the best statement of things.
<eCSNL> OK...
<eCSNL> A warm thanks goes out to Ken.
<Gord> Indeed.
<WalterOS2> Very warm, indeed.
<eCSNL> The reason I ask is if VOICE purchased the box, there should be money reserved each month
<eCSNL> to purchase a new one.
<eCSNL> Maybe we should also do that. It would be good policy to do this.
<eCSNL> This server enables us to be virtual :-)
<WalterOS2> Let's not get into accounting, please!
<eCSNL> OK, sorry.
<eCSNL> Since the treasurer report is on the table.
<eCSNL> Lets just keep it as a question to think about. Can be discussed outside the meeting.
<eCSNL> Gordon closed basically the report on the
<eCSNL> financial situation of VOICE.
<WalterOS2> Move to accept Treasurer's Report as given.
* eCSNL still not used to these official parts.
<eCSNL> Anybody objection against this treasurer report.
<eCSNL> Let him speak now or forever be silent :-)
<JWE> I second the motion to accept the report.
<Gord> eCSNL: Ask for all in favour.
<mikeoc> Aye
<WalterOS2> Aye
<MADodel> aye
<JWE> aye
<eCSNL> aye
<eCSNL> I need to ask but, but anybody against this treasurer report say: Nay
* eCSNL turns on the tune the sound of silence :-)
<eCSNL> Nobody going once
<eCSNL> going twice
<eCSNL> gone
<eCSNL> OK, treasurer report accepted.
<eCSNL> Thank you Gordon.
<eCSNL> Next agenda item.
<eCSNL> The Norman licenses.
* eCSNL pushed the mike back to Gord
<Gord> The next Norman AntiVirus licence comes due in November.
<Gord> It is for 50 units.
<Gord> Do we want to renew it?
<Gord> Open for discussion.
<Gord> AntiVirus.
<WalterOS2> We got a *lot* of interest and purchases on the last offering.
<WalterOS2> My opinion would be yes.
<Gord> I have a complaint about them.
<WalterOS2> I just hope they get that bug fixed.
<Gord> The licences begin aging as soon as Norman issues them, not when we sell them.
<Gord> We sold them as 2 year licenses.
<Gord> That means we take the loss on any that aren't sold immediately.
<Gord> Do we have any plans to advertise them at Warpstock?
<Gord> Also there is a second 50 unit license that comes due early next year.
<Gord> That totals 100 units. We only have 115 or so members.
<Gord> We could give out a license to each member. Almost.
<WarpedOS2> I could change that about the licensing as long as they are bought in lots of 10
<Gord> It is my belief that we should not renew the current licence numbers but ask for new numbers.
<Gord> Lots of ten would cost more per unit.
<Gord> 50 units gave us a price break.
<WarpedOS2> yes.. they did
<WarpedOS2> I don't recall what you paid per license in a batch of 50
<WarpedOS2> How much are you selling them for now? 14.xx or 19.xx each
<Gord> If memory serves it was $11.00
<WarpedOS2> OK.. yes.. I forgot you get a price break for nonprofit.. too
<WarpedOS2> I think I can sell them in batches of 10 for about 25.00USD and then each has their own license, not one license for all 50, and this is still a 2 year license
<WarpedOS2> but no non profit discount
<Gord> But it still begins aging when Norman gives them to us.
<WarpedOS2> no, only upon NIU
<Gord> NIU?
<WarpedOS2> er..yes, if you buy them
<WarpedOS2> Norman internet update
<WarpedOS2> hold on.. If you buy ten and sell 8
<Gord> Explain, please.
<WarpedOS2> then the moment the customer installs the license and does their first internet update, that activates the license
<WarpedOS2> then if you sell two more a month down the road, then their license starts when they do their first update
<Gord> But now all 50 units have the same licence number.
<Gord> Will the 10 unit ones have each their own number?
<WarpedOS2> yes... but if you purchase 5 batches of 10 they essentially become all single user licenses with all separate licenses
<WarpedOS2> 5 batches of 10 gives you 50 separate licenses
<Gord> What response might we have to a more-than-double price?
<Gord> Opinions invited.
<WarpedOS2> question is... how many customers other than the folks here realize that everyone has the same license?
<WalterOS2> We should probably not submit the order to Norman until we have 50 (or whatever) buyers.
<WalterOS2> That should deal with the early aging problem.
<WarpedOS2> I could ask My Norman folks about issuing a new license every two years... too
<Gord> Yes, please do.
<WarpedOS2> eventually I will be able to generate my own Norman licenses locally here so then it is up to my discretion
<WalterOS2> Yaaay!!!
<Gord> When will that happen?
<WarpedOS2> I believe I have to grow to a certain size.. first... which I am slowly signing on more computer retailers... here in Canada and so things are getting better
<eCSNL> To wrap up this issue. Reading it all it seems we should give away the license we have now
<eCSNL> and place a new order
<eCSNL> when we have 50 licenses ?
<WarpedOS2> OK... your renewal comes up next month
<WarpedOS2> for 50 licenses
<Gord> In that case, will VOICE be pushing sales at Warpstock?
<WalterOS2> We should try to get 50 buyers before then or shortly afterwards.
<Gord> Yes.
<WarpedOS2> anyone know when the bug will be fixed in eCS 1.2 and Norman... or should I email the developer about it?
<eCSNL> What is the bug ?
<eCSNL> Some menu's that don't appear ?
<WarpedOS2> it messes up the desktop and puts the processor to 100%
<eCSNL> I guess it would be
<eCSNL> a Norman bug.
<eCSNL> Or does it not have the problem
<Gord> Does the bug affect Warp 4.52 as well?
<WarpedOS2> no an eCS 1.2 bug...
<eCSNL> on eCS 1.1 ?
<WarpedOS2> no not on eCS 1.1
<WalterOS2> JWE has already contacted them. It wouldn't hurt for you to contact them. Add a little pressure. :-)
<WarpedOS2> OK Walter... will do
<Hawklord> Is Norman still included in eCS 1.2?
<WarpedOS2> I know the exact fellow that works on OS/2 version
<WalterOS2> I may even contact them. I'm going to try installing it tomorrow.
<WarpedOS2> in Norman Norway... he is very helpful
<WalterOS2> What's his E-mail address and name?
<eCSNL> I will look at the 1.2 bug on Monday.
<eCSNL> OK so the purchase of these licenses will be delayed
<Gord> OK
<eCSNL> since we don't know the price yet ?
<WarpedOS2> the fellows E-mail address, is at work, I have not restored any address book stuff here since I upgraded to eCS 1.2
<WarpedOS2> eCSNL you want the price for the next 50
<WarpedOS2> it is 31.00 / user for 50 users, then take 50% off for non profit discount.
<WarpedOS2> that is Canadian dollars
<WarpedOS2> and I believe then you must add GST here in Canada
<Gord> Ouch.!!!
<WarpedOS2> don't forget that is a two year license
<Gord> Collecting and remitting that is a headache.
<WarpedOS2> Well.. if you went with the batches of 10 then I look after the administration of the licenses
<Gord> So what is a firm price for a batch of 10?
<WarpedOS2> Gord I will have to confirm that, my prices are at work.
<Gord> Is there a nonprofit discount?
<WarpedOS2> no.. not for single licenses
<WarpedOS2> you are basically getting that a near cost.
<WarpedOS2> if you go to Norman site their prices are for a two year license from them is 98.00 or so
<WarpedOS2> if you go to Norman site their prices are for a two year license from them is 98.00 or so
<eCSNL> SO what outstanding questions are there ?
<eCSNL> With Norman that is.
<WalterOS2> Maybe we should table this for the next meeting until Vaughn gets the prices, and then move on.
<WarpedOS2> OK...
<eCSNL> I agree item closed then.
<WarpedOS2> I will talk to Norman and see if there are other options too
<eCSNL> We can't decide with pricing...
<eCSNL> :-)
<WalterOS2> Good.
<WarpedOS2> my records show that the current 50 user license expires around November the 7th or so
<eCSNL> OK subject closed.
<eCSNL> I guess ?
<eCSNL> Next meeting.
<Gord> The next meeting will still be before Warpstock, yes??? Was the Netlabs bit cancelled?
<eCSNL> Nope...
<eCSNL> I'm just looking in the agenda
<eCSNL> the third Monday of October could very well be when I'm in the US.
<eCSNL> To put it differently. I can't
<eCSNL> organize another VOICE meeting this month
<eCSNL> or a SpeakUp,
<eCSNL> Simply because its a madhouse (its busy my agenda).
<eCSNL> The Norman issue could be discussed on the VOICE mailing list.
<eCSNL> I could put up a VOICE meeting next week.
<eCSNL> But not on the third Saturday of this month.
<WalterOS2> VOICE meeting next week might allow us to clear the Norman roadblock.
<eCSNL> Or we could discuss this and decide on the BOD mailing list ?
<WalterOS2> Also true.
<WalterOS2> :-)
<eCSNL> Anybody objects against that ?
<Gord> I can't make a meeting next week.
<eCSNL> OK mailing list it is then.
<eCSNL> Easy...
<Gord> Maybe BOD mailing list would work.
<eCSNL> Next agenda item somebody at Warpstock who represents VOICE.
<eCSNL> I can't really do it.
<eCSNL> I will be there selling Mensys products
<eCSNL> representing VOICE, Mensys and Serenity....
<Gord> I won't be at Warpstock.
<eCSNL> So who is volunteering...
<Gord> What will this person be required to do?
<Gord> Do we have a table?
<Gord> or booth?
<WalterOS2> I have to avoid stress like the plague if I expect to survive the conference, so count me out.
<eCSNL> Well we would combine the Mensys/VOICE table ?
<Gord> Ken, how about you? I won't be there this year
<Gord> Is VOICE giving away any free admissions to Warpstock this year?
<Gord> That would be a good lottery prize.
<WalterOS2> I was so looking forward to meeting you in person, Ken.
<Gord> prizes, plural.
<eCSNL> OK to make life easy for everybody, combine the VOICE Mensys table?
<WalterOS2> I guess we'll have to.
<WalterOS2> Although we could ask for volunteers using a post to the members list.
<WalterOS2> sorry, a volunteer
<mikeoc> As this is my first attendance, and session started 26 hours ago, how long do these meetings usually last?
<Gord> Two hours.
<mikeoc> thanks, gord
<eCSNL> OK so that Agenda item can scrapped.
<eCSNL> Simple.
<eCSNL> Norman will be discussed on the mailing list. I just read about a "business meeting"... is it done? what means "business meeting"? about?
<eCSNL> And who is against the point of having just one VOICE meeting this month ?
<Gord> I'm against it.
<eCSNL> I mean this month
<Gord> It seems we never finish the agenda items.
<Gord> I think we should move to weekly meetings.
<eCSNL> That gets in the way of SpeakUps...
<Gord> Well OK, for this month,
<WalterOS2> We should probably not bring this up when we are over our time limit. :-)
<Gord> but I feel there is much urgent stuff to discuss before Warpstock.
<eCSNL> OK send in the agenda points to my E-mail address
<eCSNL> and we could do a meeting next week...
<Gord> I can't be here next week.
<WalterOS2> Gord, I'm not opposed to weekly meetings when they're necessary, and right now there does seem to be a lot of stuff to cover, thanks to Roderick's good ideas.
<eCSNL> Thinking there could be a meeting on the 16th of October
<Gord> One meeting this month may have to do.
<WalterOS2> However, we should think it through carefully, and do it right, if we want to go that way.
<WalterOS2> Maybe weekly meetings during November, for example.
<MikeG> Why not do a meeting from Warpstock?
<eCSNL> Somebody will have a lot of typing work...
<Gord> MikeG: That might cut into the presentation schedule.
<eCSNL> OK there will a meeting on the 16th.
<mikeoc> would be good to have more than 27 minutes notice of the next meeting
<eCSNL> I know that.
<eCSNL> Over the last month my schedule remains packed...
<Gord> mikeoc: there is a scheduled meeting every 2 weeks, currently.
<mikeoc> OK, thanks Gord
* eCSNL looks at the clock
<eCSNL> Who is favour of closing this meeting ?
<Gord> Aye.
<WalterOS2> eCSNL: I thought you couldn't make the 16th.
<Gord> I move we adjourn.
<mikeoc> Aye
<WalterOS2> Aye
<JWE> Aye
<eCSNL> OK...
<eCSNL> This meeting is closed
<eCSNL> and there will a meeting on the 16th...
<eCSNL> Thank you for your time again
Meeting adjourned 2 October 2004 at 17:16:22 EDT