10-15-97 20:05:37 <os2hq> Now I'm scheduled for only 1 presentation, to only 16 people!!!!
10-15-97 20:05:40 <mandie> I'm starting the volunteer schedule tonight..hope to have complete by the weekend
10-15-97 20:05:59 <os2hq> has many times before spoken to a packed house because of schedule errors. :9
10-15-97 20:06:18 <mandie> os2hq: there are open birds of a feather sessions :)
10-15-97 20:06:28 <trixer> argh
10-15-97 20:06:31 <Ratti> MAD: Only until BIlly thinks he can claim he invented it...
10-15-97 20:06:32 <os2hq> mandie: my thought exactly. I might "spark something."
10-15-97 20:06:51 <os2hq> How about a bumper sticker: "KEEP JAVA PURE"
10-15-97 20:06:51 <trixer> is it true that Lotus was going to demo the Notes server on an NT machine at warpstock?
10-15-97 20:07:00 <os2hq> doh!
10-15-97 20:07:20 <trixer> oh yeah
10-15-97 20:07:24 <mandie> trixer: The committee would not permit that!
10-15-97 20:07:25 <os2hq> I don't know why so many big companies have suicide complex.
10-15-97 20:07:34 <trixer> and JackHammer DUKE IS MS`S LOGO TOO
10-15-97 20:07:36 <trixer> GHEH
10-15-97 20:07:42 <trixer> oops
10-15-97 20:07:47 <trixer> sorry for the caps
10-15-97 20:08:09 <trixer> mandie: but did Lotus try it?
10-15-97 20:08:27 <MADodel> os2hq: I read today that IBM is laying off it's entire consumer pc division. They are supposed to be losing $300 on every Aptiva they sell.
10-15-97 20:08:29 <mandie> trixer: rumor
10-15-97 20:08:43 <os2hq> MAD: I read that too. About time they wised up.
10-15-97 20:08:46 <trixer> mandie: og ok
10-15-97 20:08:47 <trixer> welp
10-15-97 20:08:55 <trixer> glad to see everyone is here :)
10-15-97 20:09:00 <trixer> you guys have fun
10-15-97 20:09:05 <os2hq> What if they had decided to preload OS/2 instead? They would have a guaranteed loyal base to work from.
10-15-97 20:09:07 <mandie> trixer: see ya :)
10-15-97 20:09:14 <os2hq> Bye trix.
10-15-97 20:09:14 <Ratti> tnx trixer
10-15-97 20:09:19 <trixer> laterZ
10-15-97 20:09:43 <MADodel> Anyone d/l the new Lotus Go Web Server?
10-15-97 20:09:48 <mandie> nope
10-15-97 20:10:01 <mandie> I've really been out of touch with new items lately :(
10-15-97 20:10:09 <os2hq> Well, folks, trivia time. What do James Taylor, bathtub faucets, and Warpstock have in common?
10-15-97 20:10:20 <MADodel> It's a secure web server, and it's currently free.
10-15-97 20:11:01 <mandie> os2hq: I give ????????
10-15-97 20:11:02 <Ratti> HQ: I'm afaid to find out...
10-15-97 20:11:10 <os2hq> Okay, how about, what do OS/2 Marketing, Ace Hardware, and James Taylor have in common?
10-15-97 20:11:27 <os2hq> thinks Mandie should get this, after our conversation the other day....
10-15-97 20:11:41 <mandie> hmm
10-15-97 20:12:05 <os2hq> hmm is right.... you'll have to wait for Warpstock!!!!
10-15-97 20:12:11 <mandie> hehe
10-15-97 20:12:55 <os2hq> How about a jingle.... "Everything's Ea-si-er with... "
10-15-97 20:12:58 <mandie> os2hq: I recall talking about him and Carly Simon and Mockingbird...
10-15-97 20:13:21 * trixer has a question
10-15-97 20:13:22 <Ratti> trixer: back so soon...
10-15-97 20:13:25 <os2hq> mandie: yes, but around that time he did another song..... something more appropriate for a helpful software program.
10-15-97 20:13:51 <trixer> I'm trying to get together a rc5 team
10-15-97 20:13:52 <mandie> os2hq: great..so James Taylor is going to be at Warpstock..Marketing OS/2 and to the tune of the Ace Hdwe jingle!!! great :)
10-15-97 20:14:16 <os2hq> Mandie: Good try!! I will try to do my best to just get a JT CD going there!!!!
10-15-97 20:14:22 <trixer> hbut the problem is, the server I'm using, doesn't have an OS/2 client
10-15-97 20:14:26 <mandie> os2hq: ok :)
10-15-97 20:14:41 <trixer> anyone here want to try on another platform than OS/2?
10-15-97 20:14:52 <trixer> it will benefit WEBBnet
10-15-97 20:15:01 <os2hq> has a sneaking suspicion that 2 days after my Warpstock rollout, Gates will buy all James Taylor songs. :(
10-15-97 20:15:10 <mandie> os2hq: how about I'm a Steam Roller Baby :)
10-15-97 20:15:17 <os2hq> mandie: LOL!!!
10-15-97 20:15:21 <os2hq> Not quite.
10-15-97 20:15:22 <mandie> hehe
10-15-97 20:15:40 <mandie> MickBrown: hi and welcome :)
10-15-97 20:15:44 <Ratti> trixer: I thought it didn't matter what platform was used, it could all be totaled up for whatever team one wanted?
10-15-97 20:15:46 <os2hq> Okay, here's the secret to consumer marketing: Every hi-tech product MUST be named after something low-tech.
10-15-97 20:16:03 <os2hq> Windows. Apple. Java. and of course,
10-15-97 20:16:30 <mandie> mark: hi :)
10-15-97 20:16:31 <MickBrown> Hi Folks
10-15-97 20:16:40 <os2hq> Howdy, neighbors!
10-15-97 20:17:13 <os2hq> Pick a class of physical objects you use many times every day, almost without noticing it.
10-15-97 20:17:45 <Mark> Hello all
10-15-97 20:17:51 <os2hq> This must be extra-low-tech, something that translates well to any foreign language, and has plenty of related words available.
10-15-97 20:17:53 <os2hq> Hey mark.
10-15-97 20:17:54 <mandie> Mark: hi :)
10-15-97 20:18:27 <MickBrown> Electric Pencil did well for a while
10-15-97 20:18:32 <os2hq> Pick this class of objects, and make it the new name for OS/2. Pick the name of a person who typically installs these objects, and that's the new name for Team OS/2.
10-15-97 20:19:04 <os2hq> James Taylor called himself one.
10-15-97 20:19:42 <mandie> swish1: hi :)
10-15-97 20:20:08 <swish1> mandie: hi back :)
10-15-97 20:20:11 <os2hq> Okay, you'll all just have to wait til Warpstock.
10-15-97 20:20:18 <mandie> speaking of Warpstock
10-15-97 20:20:32 <mandie> it's only 9 days away!
10-15-97 20:20:45 <os2hq> ETD Tuesday next, 6 AM.
10-15-97 20:21:04 <mandie> os2hq: I arrive Friday 2:05p
10-15-97 20:21:05 <os2hq> Hmm, nice crowd tonight.
10-15-97 20:21:30 <os2hq> Thursday, probably. I'm visiting a few old clients. (Actually, about 70 years old)
10-15-97 20:21:33 <mandie> Mike Kaply had to cancel his presentation for Communicator/2 :(
10-15-97 20:21:40 <mandie> just cancelled today
10-15-97 20:21:41 <os2hq> Oh.
10-15-97 20:21:46 <os2hq> why???
10-15-97 20:22:02 <mandie> os2hq: don't know'
10-15-97 20:22:07 <os2hq>
10-15-97 20:22:15 <Ratti> could someone esle give it?
10-15-97 20:22:22 <MADodel> I'm sure IBM can fill in with an NT sales promo demonstartion.
10-15-97 20:22:48 * Abraxas wretches violently :-)
10-15-97 20:22:50 <mandie> ratti: that didn't seem to be an option..I believe he was doing this on his own
10-15-97 20:22:54 <Mark> Re: Kaply -- Bummer, You would think Dana could give it
10-15-97 20:22:54 <mandie> abraxas: hi
10-15-97 20:23:02 <Abraxas> hiya, mandie
10-15-97 20:23:03 <os2hq> There's more than enuf material on the schedule. But, C/2 is *important*
10-15-97 20:23:04 <mandie> mad: now now :)
10-15-97 20:23:20 <MADodel> :-)
10-15-97 20:23:30 <Abraxas> My guess would be that it's because it's (C2) not ready yet.
10-15-97 20:23:34 <mandie> os2hq: I agree...so much that we had to cut some of the repeat sessions :(
10-15-97 20:24:21 <Mark> And apparantly IBM caused further delays with the NS 2.02 Java 1.1 version
10-15-97 20:24:30 <os2hq> Hey grim.
10-15-97 20:24:37 <ShadowM> is it true that Communicator/2 won't be released until January?
10-15-97 20:24:39 <Ratti> UncleGrimm: Howdy!
10-15-97 20:24:50 <UncleGrim> hi al
10-15-97 20:24:52 <UncleGrim> l
10-15-97 20:25:01 <mandie> abraxas: I would doubt that...Mike did a presentation at SCOUG last month
10-15-97 20:25:02 <MADodel> Mark: yes, I hear C/2 is now scheduled for 1st qtr 98
10-15-97 20:25:11 <Mark> As for NS4/2, with aplogies to an old Wendy's commercial -- Where's the Beta!
10-15-97 20:25:15 <os2hq> Shadow: that's what I hear. But, at least Netscape stuff is *quality* whenever it arrives.
10-15-97 20:25:23 <mandie> abraxas: err...it was a demo of CS/2..the beginning of this mo I believe
10-15-97 20:25:25 <os2hq> Mark: LOL!
10-15-97 20:25:35 <mandie> uncle!!! hi :)
10-15-97 20:25:40 * UncleGrim shuts his mouth about os2hq's quality comment
10-15-97 20:25:42 <MADodel> hey UG
10-15-97 20:25:52 <os2hq> Hmmm....
10-15-97 20:26:10 <os2hq> Do we have an agenda 2nite?
10-15-97 20:26:10 <mandie> well they attempt to make it as bug free before releasing :)
10-15-97 20:26:18 <UncleGrim> anyway, sorry I'm late--my monitor died yesterdy--just got back from buying a (used) replacement
10-15-97 20:26:26 <mandie> os2hq: no, just informal...
10-15-97 20:26:31 <os2hq> At Microsoft, "bug free" means "no charge for the extra bugs."
10-15-97 20:26:36 <mandie> is there anything specific that anyone would like to discuss?
10-15-97 20:26:51 <MickBrown> I think NS has the same problem as MS, they try to put too many things into one program
10-15-97 20:27:00 <os2hq> Well, yes.
10-15-97 20:27:02 <mandie> os2hq: I thought it meant upgrade to the bug free version
10-15-97 20:27:03 <os2hq> I am wondering what our next project after Warpstock will be.
10-15-97 20:27:29 <UncleGrim> petitioning IBM to do some end user/SOHO marketing?
10-15-97 20:27:30 <mandie> os2hq: I don't know..but I'm sure worn out after this one! :)
10-15-97 20:27:31 <os2hq> Mandie: maybe it means "Don't *bug* us about the problems!"
10-15-97 20:27:32 * MADodel is looking forward to Warpstock Europe
10-15-97 20:27:39 <Ratti> os2hq: how'bout COMDEX
10-15-97 20:27:55 <os2hq> UG: I talked with IBM on this. IBM will *never again* market *anything* to consumers.
10-15-97 20:28:00 <Ratti> a subject near and dear to my heart...
10-15-97 20:28:18 <os2hq> Ratti: sounds like we may be on tap for that. It's in the Warpstock discussion group schedules, too.
10-15-97 20:28:23 <mandie> We have done an enormous amount of work and planning ...all via email and irc :)
10-15-97 20:28:29 <Mark> os2hq -- so much for Aptiva!?
10-15-97 20:28:33 <UncleGrim> so I've heard too--but I still feel sufficient user interest that they can't deny might provoke them slightly
10-15-97 20:28:33 <os2hq> IBM has even decided to bail on Aptivas!
10-15-97 20:28:39 <os2hq> They are losing $300 each.
10-15-97 20:28:44 <Ratti> yes, I asked for the discussion...
10-15-97 20:28:59 <Ratti> will IBM keep the Thinkpads?
10-15-97 20:29:00 <os2hq> Ratti: good, somebody had to. It had slipped my mind.
10-15-97 20:29:07 <UncleGrim> arg, BRB, mother is inept
10-15-97 20:29:21 <os2hq> Ratti: that's about the only thing. They make beaucoup bucks selling them to travelling sales forces.
10-15-97 20:29:35 <os2hq> Whether they will market them to consumers is another story.
10-15-97 20:30:21 <os2hq> Re OS/2 Consumer Marketing: "The Mountain will not come to Mohammed." So, let us climb that mountain ourselves.
10-15-97 20:30:21 <Ratti> At my job, we've been through 11 or 12 vandors: now Thinkpads are the only laptops we'll buy
10-15-97 20:30:30 <os2hq> Yep.
10-15-97 20:30:32 <UncleGrim> if IBM is that intent on completely abandoning consumers, then I'll go get the shovel to start digging their grave for them
10-15-97 20:30:37 <os2hq> I hear they actually work.
10-15-97 20:30:48 <Mark> IBM tries to be all things to all people. They need to thin their hardware line.
10-15-97 20:30:55 <os2hq> UG: What you have to remember is that IBM, for DECADES, ignored consumers and prospered.
10-15-97 20:31:13 <os2hq> They stumbled when they tried to become consumer marketers too.
10-15-97 20:31:13 <UncleGrim> they never *completely* ignored consumers
10-15-97 20:31:24 <Ratti> only problem with thinkpads is that they're expensive
10-15-97 20:31:25 <os2hq> UG: It was always an afterthought.
10-15-97 20:31:35 <os2hq> Ratti: They start less than $2K now.
10-15-97 20:31:49 <Mark> What I meant by that is they have AS 400s, RS/6000 Servers, and PC servers
10-15-97 20:31:55 <os2hq> What IBM has figured out is, consumer marketing is a Culture War.
10-15-97 20:32:01 <UncleGrim> forgive me if I'm not keeping track tonight--my mother truly is inept--can't even copy video tapes without asking me questions every 15 seconds
10-15-97 20:32:03 <os2hq> IBM has decided to leave that battlefield.
10-15-97 20:32:09 <Ratti> I got one of the old hand-me-downs (about 4 years ago): a Thinkpad 700C. Now I'm trying to install Warp Connect on it...
10-15-97 20:32:13 <os2hq> UG: No sweat.
10-15-97 20:32:31 <os2hq> Ratti: should be a piece of cake. I hear IBM has a special app for that.
10-15-97 20:32:51 <Ratti> The ones we buy are all the expensive models 760/770...
10-15-97 20:33:04 <Mark> Consumer marketing of PCs is pimping. Intel and MS are the whores, and Gateway and Dell are the pimps
10-15-97 20:33:05 <os2hq> What amazes me is just how successful I was selling OS/2 to the home and SOHO market in L.A. for 3 years.
10-15-97 20:33:17 <ShadowM> Merlin runs great on my 365XD, except for VoiceType... is there any hope for that?
10-15-97 20:33:19 <Ratti> I'm still trying to find the video driver for a TP 700C
10-15-97 20:33:37 <os2hq> Mark: Yep! Think of a PC as nothing more than a Delivery Hypodermic for CPUs and OS's.
10-15-97 20:33:54 <Ratti> os2hq: what special app?
10-15-97 20:33:56 <os2hq> Shadow: make sure you have 32MB RAM.
10-15-97 20:33:58 <mandie> I'm still trying to find RAM for my old NEC :(
10-15-97 20:34:24 <ShadowM> I have 40M, but the problem is the built-in sound card, which won't work (as far as I know) with VoiceType
10-15-97 20:34:25 <os2hq> Ratti: I don't know, some kind of patch or .ZIPfile for Thinkpad installs. Maybe on their Boulder site???
10-15-97 20:34:36 <Ratti> 700c can only _use_ 16MB: that's why I'm loading Connect, not Warp 4
10-15-97 20:34:41 <os2hq> Shadow: too bad &(
10-15-97 20:34:42 <MADodel> mandie: I have some 64k chips sitting in a drawer you can have.
10-15-97 20:34:49 <Mark> os2hq -- exactly! GW2K, Dell et al are noting more thatn value added resellers of motherboards and hard drives
10-15-97 20:35:18 <Ratti> hq: I've been looking. They have Windows 3.1 drivers in a zip that's supposedly for Warp
10-15-97 20:35:29 <os2hq> In my Warpstock presentation, I call "boot sectors" collectively: The Digital Archipelago.
10-15-97 20:35:32 <mandie> Mad: hmm..this will only take an additional 16megs...had 4 on board
10-15-97 20:35:47 <os2hq> Hmmm.
10-15-97 20:35:49 <mandie> mad: it's like a little 2"x2" card and sayd DRAM on it
10-15-97 20:36:07 <UncleGrim> Anyway, as I was trying to say--IBM must be terribly short-sighted if they really think that abandoning SOHO users will make them profit considering that, although now NT sucks, it is getting "better" and is making advancements in the very markets IBM thinks OS/2 should be in.
10-15-97 20:36:08 <mandie> it's got 4 on board and 4meg card now..want a 16 for a total of 20
10-15-97 20:36:31 <UncleGrim> And the more SOHO users that move to NT, the sooner NT will replace OS/2 at ever level.
10-15-97 20:36:38 <Mark> UG unfortunately, IBM is helping the NT cause
10-15-97 20:36:42 <os2hq> UG: IBM will have to lead, follow, or get out of the way. They refuse to lead, I doubt seriously they'll follow. They must get out of our way.
10-15-97 20:36:47 <Ratti> mandie: can't you use 2 cards?
10-15-97 20:36:56 <mandie> ratti: no, only 1 slot
10-15-97 20:37:11 <UncleGrim> I think what we need is to show this to IBM--get them to push OS/2 even 1/5 as much as M$ pushes WinDOS, and OS/2 stands a chance
10-15-97 20:37:13 <mandie> ratti: it's ooooooold :)
10-15-97 20:37:15 <UncleGrim> Mark, I know
10-15-97 20:37:15 <os2hq> IBM knows that IBM itself MUST control NT middleware: it's the equivalent of the Office Suite market.
10-15-97 20:37:21 <UncleGrim> we need to show them how foolish that is
10-15-97 20:37:32 <os2hq> UG: No, IBM will not. *WE* must do the pushing.
10-15-97 20:37:43 <Ratti> mandie not as old as that 700C I'm working on... but almost!
10-15-97 20:37:47 <os2hq> We MUST stop thinking of IBM as a consumer company.
10-15-97 20:37:55 <os2hq> We MUST start thinking of IBM as an OEM.
10-15-97 20:37:56 <UncleGrim> IBM needs to know that supporting M$ OSes will kill it just as it's killed hundreds of other companies
10-15-97 20:38:01 <mandie> ratti: ah, I thought yours was a new version...
10-15-97 20:38:16 <mandie> os2hq: I'm looking forward to hearing what you have to say at Warpstock
10-15-97 20:38:17 <os2hq> UG: IBM thinks IBM can become "The Tail That Wags the (MS) Dog"
10-15-97 20:38:20 <MADodel> hello Projects
10-15-97 20:38:29 <Ratti> Anyway, I really want to arrive at Warpstock with OS/2 on my laptop, instead of WIn 3.1
10-15-97 20:38:33 <UncleGrim> well IBM needs to be taught that it's wrong before it dies
10-15-97 20:38:45 <mandie> os2hq: but I have one question...what is the purpose of starting another OS/2 support group to replace teamos2?...
10-15-97 20:38:50 <os2hq> Mandie: I have a 2-pronged attack: 1st, define & attack submarkets, particularly niches loyal to OS/2, by providing apps.
10-15-97 20:38:53 <Projects> hi MADodel
10-15-97 20:38:54 <Ratti> hq: they can. They just don't seem to have a clue how to do it
10-15-97 20:39:03 <UncleGrim> it never worked for Lotus, WordPerfect Corp (and where are they today?), Netscape, etc, etc
10-15-97 20:39:04 <os2hq> Mandie: I mean give TeamOS/2 a NEW NAME.
10-15-97 20:39:20 <os2hq> Nobody (among consumers) has any idea what "Team OS/2" means.
10-15-97 20:39:22 <MADodel> UG: IBM is the dog, they just won't admit it. They continue to let M$ set the pace.
10-15-97 20:39:28 <mandie> os2hq: have you spoken with the guy that has put the TeamOS/2 site back online?
10-15-97 20:39:28 <os2hq> MAD: yep.
10-15-97 20:39:30 <UncleGrim> IBM has to know that selling a competitor's product does not = major income for IBM
10-15-97 20:39:47 <os2hq> Mandie: I have, but he's not answering. I couldn't ring up his site yesterday!!!!
10-15-97 20:39:53 <UncleGrim> if they don't see it, we need to make them see it as clearly as possible
10-15-97 20:40:18 <mandie> os2hq: ring up..as in phone?
10-15-97 20:40:19 <os2hq> UG: That's why I was hoping to have a presentation room big enuf for some IBMers to wander into.
10-15-97 20:40:27 <os2hq> Mandie: Net.
10-15-97 20:40:32 <mandie> ah
10-15-97 20:40:33 <Ratti> and those that do know what team os/2 is often have gotten a bad impression of it from scurrilous (sp?) news reports
10-15-97 20:40:48 <os2hq> Ratti: yes.
10-15-97 20:41:00 <UncleGrim> sometimes I think IBM needs the Steve Jobs approach--fire all the old board members and start over
10-15-97 20:41:01 <os2hq> We need OS/2 and TeamOS/2. But they BOTH need new names/images/etc.
10-15-97 20:41:13 <os2hq> UG: too late, IBM is profitable!!!
10-15-97 20:41:17 * UncleGrim agrees that OS/2 needs a better name
10-15-97 20:41:18 <Mark> Why does Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer have to dictate how I use my PC! I want a choice, dammit!
10-15-97 20:41:32 <os2hq> Mark: That's what the new TOS2 is all about.
10-15-97 20:41:35 <swish1> Mark: Exactly!
10-15-97 20:41:50 <os2hq> I have a new name all picked out. It will be a lead pipe cinch for consumers.
10-15-97 20:41:53 <UncleGrim> but IBM won't be profitable in 10 years when they have no software of their own and M$ has taken over every app-market that IBM chose to settle into
10-15-97 20:41:56 <mandie> os2hq: I think you'll find alot of reluctance to change the teamos2 name
10-15-97 20:42:04 <MADodel> Mark: that's why we are here
10-15-97 20:42:08 <os2hq> I have found a way to sell APIs to the public!!!!!
10-15-97 20:42:11 <mandie> there are some very active TeamOS/2 UG's out there
10-15-97 20:42:17 <Ratti> os2hq: I've got it: OS/2 plumbers
10-15-97 20:42:21 <os2hq> Mandie: yes, but I want them to see it MUST be done.
10-15-97 20:42:28 <os2hq> Ratti: You're getting warmer.
10-15-97 20:42:39 <Mark> Ratti - must cost a fortune!
10-15-97 20:42:43 * UncleGrim says "Call OS/2 Workplace (or Desktop) with OS/2 as the sub-name"
10-15-97 20:42:44 <Ratti> mandie: i'm not reluctant
10-15-97 20:42:58 <UncleGrim> so it'd be IBM Workplace: OS/2 5.0 (or whatever)
10-15-97 20:43:08 <Mark> IBM has been using the name "Workspace"
10-15-97 20:43:12 <os2hq> Ratti: hint: you never notice you even use one of these, unless it's MISSING when you go to use something.
10-15-97 20:43:20 <UncleGrim> but that's for them to decide--and it'd probably be harder to change their minds on that than on marketing
10-15-97 20:43:25 <os2hq> Mark: WORKSPACE is *not* a consumer name!!!
10-15-97 20:43:27 <mandie> ratti: when VOICE started...we got alot of flack about "Why are you trying to *replace* teamos2...and that wasn't the intent at all! We wanted to work *with* teamos2
10-15-97 20:43:46 <Mark> I know! But it COULD be.
10-15-97 20:43:47 <os2hq> I don't intend to *replace* just *rename*
10-15-97 20:44:00 <os2hq> Mark: I believe I have a better one.
10-15-97 20:44:11 <Mark> Let's here it
10-15-97 20:44:12 <Ratti> I agree with os2hq
10-15-97 20:44:19 <os2hq> Remember, Mark, a consumer product must have a name people identify with on a subliminal level.
10-15-97 20:44:24 <os2hq> Apple. Java. Windows.
10-15-97 20:44:52 <os2hq> I know of a class of product that's even MORE ubiquitous than even those!!!
10-15-97 20:44:53 <UncleGrim> Well if IBM want to change the name to the Workspace shell then Workspace would fit--as it is, Workplace already fits with the Workplace shell they already named
10-15-97 20:44:55 <ShadowM> Warp.
10-15-97 20:45:13 <UncleGrim> but then, I guess VOICE would have to become VWICE :-)
10-15-97 20:45:14 <os2hq> Shadow: No, Warp is too techie. The average consumer doesn't identify with that.
10-15-97 20:45:20 <os2hq> Warp DOOMED OS/2.
10-15-97 20:45:23 <Mark> I admit, Java came about just as the coffee craze was full bore.
10-15-97 20:45:28 <os2hq> Warp was a TERRIBLE product name.
10-15-97 20:45:36 <os2hq> Warp won't even translate into Spanish!!!!
10-15-97 20:45:46 <swish> os2hq: Merlin was better
10-15-97 20:45:56 <os2hq> Merlin would have been a bit better.
10-15-97 20:46:01 <Ratti> mandie: but we both know that VOICE addresses a differnt segment.
10-15-97 20:46:01 <MADodel> UG: or drop the w and we'd just be VICE. :-)
10-15-97 20:46:05 <os2hq> But, it's not as *basic* as Java or Apple or Windows.
10-15-97 20:46:09 <os2hq> Miami VOICE?
10-15-97 20:46:11 <mandie> Ratti: true
10-15-97 20:46:13 <Ratti> ug: or VICE?
10-15-97 20:46:26 <os2hq>
10-15-97 20:46:41 <Projects> WICE for those of russian descent
10-15-97 20:46:42 <os2hq> I mean, think of an item you use every day.
10-15-97 20:46:53 <UncleGrim> hmm, and I thought I turned off APM--my hard drive just spun up
10-15-97 20:46:56 <os2hq> You use it many times each day, without thinking about it.
10-15-97 20:46:59 <Projects> os2hq: my computer...
10-15-97 20:47:07 <os2hq> It makes using anything else, MUCH easier.
10-15-97 20:47:14 <Projects> os2hq: my computer...
10-15-97 20:47:19 <UncleGrim> shoes?
10-15-97 20:47:22 <os2hq> In fact, using any device might be darn near impossible without it.
10-15-97 20:47:28 <UncleGrim> hands
10-15-97 20:47:29 <os2hq> UG: Good, you're thinking...
10-15-97 20:47:33 <Ratti> mark: funny, but I've been crazy for coffee for quite some time...
10-15-97 20:47:38 <os2hq> UG: Almost on target!!!!!
10-15-97 20:47:43 <UncleGrim> fingers
10-15-97 20:47:47 <Projects> os2hq: OS/2 and my computer
10-15-97 20:47:51 <UncleGrim> umm....limbs
10-15-97 20:47:52 <os2hq> UG: What do you use with your HANDS every day?
10-15-97 20:47:57 <mandie> touch
10-15-97 20:48:03 <mandie> feel
10-15-97 20:48:06 <os2hq> What do your HANDS need to use an object.
10-15-97 20:48:10 <ShadowM> oh, for heaven's sake Tom, spit it out!
10-15-97 20:48:11 <mandie> grasp
10-15-97 20:48:11 <Projects> keyboard and mouse
10-15-97 20:48:12 <os2hq> What do your HANDS grab????
10-15-97 20:48:18 <mandie> object
10-15-97 20:48:21 <Ratti> hq: doorknob?
10-15-97 20:48:21 <UncleGrim> my hair?
10-15-97 20:48:31 <os2hq> It's on the faucet. The toilet. The refrigerator....
10-15-97 20:48:32 <Projects> coffee
10-15-97 20:48:37 <swish> knobs
10-15-97 20:48:44 <os2hq> The doorknob. The desk drawer.
10-15-97 20:48:48 <UncleGrim> washer?
10-15-97 20:48:48 <UncleGrim> dryer?
10-15-97 20:48:48 <Mark> Tools
10-15-97 20:48:49 <UncleGrim> :-b
10-15-97 20:48:49 <mandie> handle
10-15-97 20:48:49 <swish> handles
10-15-97 20:48:50 <os2hq> The cupboard doors.
10-15-97 20:48:54 <Ratti> hq: eyes? hands? fingers?
10-15-97 20:48:55 <MADodel> a handle
10-15-97 20:48:58 <Projects> handles
10-15-97 20:48:58 <Projects> chrome
10-15-97 20:48:58 <os2hq> swish: You win the prize!
10-15-97 20:49:01 <MarcLC> ???
10-15-97 20:49:10 <Ratti> thumbs!
10-15-97 20:49:11 <os2hq> Call OS/2 "Handles" and it WINS.
10-15-97 20:49:13 <mandie> whew!
10-15-97 20:49:16 * Projects said handles before
10-15-97 20:49:21 <os2hq> Because, it "handles" everything.
10-15-97 20:49:28 <Ratti> grasp?
10-15-97 20:49:29 <os2hq> Proj: sorry, I missed you! Lagged?
10-15-97 20:49:32 <mandie> projects: then you split the prize :)
10-15-97 20:49:43 <Projects> heh
10-15-97 20:49:45 <UncleGrim> IBM Handles?
10-15-97 20:49:46 <UncleGrim> dunno about that
10-15-97 20:49:53 <MarcLC> anything worthwhile going on?
10-15-97 20:49:55 * Projects doesn't want a prize... just glad that's over...
10-15-97 20:49:56 <mandie> somehow Team Handles just doesn't cut it :)
10-15-97 20:49:58 <os2hq> How else can you sell an API?
10-15-97 20:50:06 * UncleGrim compares "Yes, I run Handles" to "Yes, I run Workplace"
10-15-97 20:50:06 <os2hq> Mandie: That's where JT comes in.
10-15-97 20:50:07 <mandie> projects: hehe
10-15-97 20:50:16 <UncleGrim> lol projects
10-15-97 20:50:17 <os2hq> Who installs Handles?
10-15-97 20:50:23 <mandie> handlers
10-15-97 20:50:34 <Projects> handlers
10-15-97 20:50:34 <os2hq> No, JT didn't call himself a Handler.
10-15-97 20:50:43 <swish> Handyman
10-15-97 20:50:44 <os2hq> Real life, who do you call?
10-15-97 20:50:47 <os2hq> swish: YES!
10-15-97 20:50:49 <Projects> and no one but /me handles his computer...
10-15-97 20:50:58 <mandie> well swish, you're on a roll! :)
10-15-97 20:51:05 <os2hq> Mandie: can you see the connection?
10-15-97 20:51:07 <mandie> salagar: hi :)
10-15-97 20:51:08 <Ratti> carpenters
10-15-97 20:51:12 <UncleGrim> hello Salagar
10-15-97 20:51:15 <Salagar> hi!
10-15-97 20:51:17 <mandie> os2hq: yes
10-15-97 20:51:28 <os2hq> We need a new image for TOS2. As a Helpful buncha guys!!!! We fix broken hearts!!!
10-15-97 20:51:39 <os2hq> You're broken hearted about your PC. We can help!
10-15-97 20:51:48 <os2hq> 24-hours-a-day reliability!!!
10-15-97 20:51:49 <mandie> ah, handyman..James Taylor! :)
10-15-97 20:51:55 <os2hq> Mandie. Yep.
10-15-97 20:52:19 <os2hq> Here's the main thing we want to say! We're busy 24 hours a day!
10-15-97 20:52:34 <os2hq> Come, come. Yeah, yeah. You'll coming running to me!!
10-15-97 20:52:35 <os2hq> Get it?
10-15-97 20:52:36 * Ratti sniffs: warp doesn't need handymen, er... handypersons. It's not broke...
10-15-97 20:52:50 * UncleGrim scythes Lagzilla to within an inch of its miserable existence and does some terrible mouthing of the words "Lagzilla will not die! We must flee for our lives!"
10-15-97 20:53:05 <os2hq> Ratti: No, it's the people WITHOUT Warp who need handymen: Team Handyman!
10-15-97 20:53:05 <swish> os2hq: Yep. No need to reboot!
10-15-97 20:53:20 <UncleGrim> I'm getting off suntrix--never liked this server anyway...brb
10-15-97 20:53:22 * Projects remembers some talk about Tim the Toolman and OS/2... what a combo if it could be done...
10-15-97 20:53:22 <os2hq> swish: yep. We're busy 24 hours a day....
10-15-97 20:53:26 <Ratti> hq: hmmm... still thinking about it...
10-15-97 20:53:41 <swish> os2hq: Unfortunately, the politically correct version becomes "Handypersons".
10-15-97 20:53:42 <mandie> os2hq: that portrays problems if you're busy 24 hours aday....best use the Maytag approach :)
10-15-97 20:53:44 <os2hq> Proj: you're on the right track. "Home Improvement" with an attitude!
10-15-97 20:53:56 <mandie> superloop: hi :)
10-15-97 20:53:58 <UncleGrim> better
10-15-97 20:54:04 <os2hq> swish: PC means something else here.
10-15-97 20:54:12 * Ratti refuses to be politically correct
10-15-97 20:54:14 <os2hq> We should buy out JT right now.
10-15-97 20:54:23 <MADodel> mandie: on the contrary, OS/2 can handle your work 24 hours a day. No reboots every hour
10-15-97 20:54:33 <MickBrown> Is Attittude trademarked?
10-15-97 20:54:43 <mandie> mad: ok, I guess I was thinking of *fixing*
10-15-97 20:54:50 <Mark> MB I like it!
10-15-97 20:54:54 <os2hq> salivates thinking about the music video we could do.
10-15-97 20:54:56 * mandie love the term Attitude!
10-15-97 20:55:02 <Ratti> not with 4 t's
10-15-97 20:55:08 <os2hq> Team Attitude!
10-15-97 20:55:14 <os2hq>
10-15-97 20:55:17 <UncleGrim> how about this idea (got it from the OS/2 E-Zine poll this past month)...
10-15-97 20:55:18 <MickBrown> Ok, I have a crappy keyboard
10-15-97 20:55:29 <Ratti> we'd be more like EMTs
10-15-97 20:55:30 <UncleGrim> after Warpstock, petition IBM to create a subsidiary company to handle OS/2
10-15-97 20:55:33 <UncleGrim> ?
10-15-97 20:55:41 <os2hq> UG: Yep.
10-15-97 20:55:41 <Mark> How about "The Operating System formerly known as OS/2 Warp"
10-15-97 20:55:47 <mandie> ok, can we take care of one bit of business and then we can continue the Handyman discussion?
10-15-97 20:55:52 <Ratti> UG: DURING Warpstock...
10-15-97 20:55:55 <os2hq> I say we form a company to do this, outside of IBM, and OEM license it from them.
10-15-97 20:56:04 <UncleGrim> that why "they" don't have to market to consumers, but "we" know the company won't be bought out by M$ to shut us up
10-15-97 20:56:07 <os2hq> mandie: you have the chair.
10-15-97 20:56:13 <Ratti> go ahead, mandie
10-15-97 20:56:16 <os2hq> UG: YES!
10-15-97 20:56:22 <mandie> ok, our secretary had to resign due to medical school
10-15-97 20:56:22 <Mark> I agree with os2hq
10-15-97 20:56:29 <UncleGrim> it's mutually benefitial
10-15-97 20:56:31 <mandie> we are in need of a replacement
10-15-97 20:56:34 <MarcLC> good luck
10-15-97 20:56:35 <UncleGrim> wb projects
10-15-97 20:56:36 <mandie> do we have an nominations?
10-15-97 20:56:51 <os2hq> I nominate GRIM!
10-15-97 20:57:17 <mandie> is there anyone that would like to submit your name and we can vote ?
10-15-97 20:57:42 <mandie> boy, I sure know how to quiet down a room!
10-15-97 20:58:02 <mandie> projects: you're our new secretary :)..that'll teach you to leave!
10-15-97 20:58:05 <os2hq> I nominated Grim. any seconds?
10-15-97 20:58:08 * UncleGrim can't be an officer--still not a member--I was going to sign up now that I have some extra cash, but then my monitor died on me and I'm having to have it repaired and bought a replacement for the time being.
10-15-97 20:58:19 <UncleGrim> :-(
10-15-97 20:58:26 <os2hq> UG: are you a student? $10 gets you in.
10-15-97 20:58:38 <mandie> I second dON
10-15-97 20:58:45 <os2hq> I think the Board would loan you the $10
10-15-97 20:58:51 <UncleGrim> if the repair doesn't cost as much as I think/fear, I'll sign up probably at Warpstock, if possible
10-15-97 20:59:04 <UncleGrim> I'm not a student
10-15-97 20:59:19 <os2hq> Mandie: get with Grim at Warpstock & sign him up. I move we loan Grim the $25 needed, so he can be sec.
10-15-97 20:59:21 <MADodel> mandie: you gonna be taking membership applications at Warpstock?
10-15-97 20:59:46 <mandie> madodel: I certainly wouldn't refuse..but there is nothing formal setup for voice...
10-15-97 21:00:14 * UncleGrim will just print out the form from the website and bring his $25 check to Warpstock and hand it to someone :-)
10-15-97 21:00:16 <mandie> I wish there was another voice member available to provide onsite info ...tsk tsk Tom :)
10-15-97 21:00:27 <mandie> unclegrim: that'll work :)
10-15-97 21:00:39 <os2hq> Mandie: My presentation is absorbing a lot of energy here.
10-15-97 21:00:42 <UncleGrim> preferably someone actually IN VOICE :-)
10-15-97 21:00:47 <os2hq> It's Nuclear.
10-15-97 21:01:14 <mandie> os2hq: you'll have your presentation prepared by the time you get to Warpstock..I have to manage 50 volunteers for 2 days
10-15-97 21:01:38 <os2hq> Mandie: I hope you have scheduled some recovery time.
10-15-97 21:01:50 <mandie> I will be available to talk to *anyone* about voice
10-15-97 21:01:55 * UncleGrim will be a good volunteer--I learn quickly, so you can just put me off to the side after telling me what to do and I'll be fine :-)
10-15-97 21:02:26 <Projects> kinda like a 'go sit in the corner' deal :)
10-15-97 21:02:32 <UncleGrim> Oh, by the way, Warpstock opens at 8am?
10-15-97 21:02:37 <os2hq> Okay, good. Yes, Grim.
10-15-97 21:02:43 <UncleGrim> Projects, well, not quite :-)
10-15-97 21:02:50 <Projects> UncleGrim: :)
10-15-97 21:03:02 <mandie> uncle: yes...we'll be there at 7 Sat and 7 or 7:30 Sun
10-15-97 21:03:10 <UncleGrim> okay, since I signed up now also as one of the last minute set-up type people, I'll be there, say, at 7am to help set up and get my duties down?
10-15-97 21:03:14 <os2hq> Okay, back to advertising. I need somebody to take some photographs. Two shots of each object.
10-15-97 21:03:20 <mandie> probably 6:30 sat now that we're starting at 8 instead of 8:30
10-15-97 21:03:22 <Projects> here's 1000 stamps, and 1000 envelopes... go sit in the corner...
10-15-97 21:03:28 <os2hq> Hehe!!
10-15-97 21:03:36 <mandie> uncle: sounds good..did you get my email?
10-15-97 21:03:45 <UncleGrim> about scheduling my times?
10-15-97 21:04:01 <os2hq> Two shots of each object I need. One with the handle on it, one with the handle missing.... can you see what I'm driving at?
10-15-97 21:04:08 <Projects> os2hq: what kind of objects we talking?
10-15-97 21:04:12 <mandie> uncle: once the vol schedule is done..I'll post ask everyone to look and inform that check in should be 15min prior to starting assignment
10-15-97 21:04:30 <UncleGrim> okay
10-15-97 21:04:32 <os2hq> Toilets. Faucets. Gates Doors. Windows (that one too)
10-15-97 21:04:52 <mandie> gates as in fence type gates I hope
10-15-97 21:04:56 <os2hq> Post them on a web site.
10-15-97 21:05:04 <UncleGrim> heheh
10-15-97 21:05:10 <os2hq> Mandie: can't you see the slogans? "The best way to control Gates."
10-15-97 21:05:14 <UncleGrim> but in a world without fences . . .
10-15-97 21:05:17 <Projects> mandie: ever seen bill's handle?
10-15-97 21:05:21 <os2hq> "The best way to Open and Shut Windows"
10-15-97 21:05:29 <UncleGrim> lol os2hq
10-15-97 21:05:34 <os2hq> "Everything's Easier With... Handles."
10-15-97 21:05:53 <os2hq> For the Toilet: "How a WINner HANDLES the Competition."
10-15-97 21:06:00 <Ratti> I thought it was: Resistance is futile. Prepare to be assimilated.
10-15-97 21:06:02 <mandie> Unclegrim: do you accept the position of Secretary?
10-15-97 21:06:07 <os2hq> Then the biggie: 2 years from now, we roll out Handles2000!
10-15-97 21:06:10 <mandie> back to business you guys...then we move on
10-15-97 21:06:13 <UncleGrim> mmmm....no on that toilet one
10-15-97 21:06:14 <os2hq> Because, it "Handles 2000"
10-15-97 21:06:31 <UncleGrim> mandie, duties include?
10-15-97 21:06:32 <os2hq> UG... well maybe not that one.
10-15-97 21:06:46 <mandie> unclegrim: take a look at the website...it tells what each of our duties are
10-15-97 21:06:52 <UncleGrim> okay, brb
10-15-97 21:07:08 <os2hq> Briefcase. Desk Drawer. Door.
10-15-97 21:07:16 <os2hq> Stick Shift.
10-15-97 21:07:18 <mandie> uncle: and well have our past secretary send you his archive of info from previous meetings
10-15-97 21:07:26 <Ratti> Safe (vault)
10-15-97 21:07:28 <os2hq> Congrats, UG!!
10-15-97 21:07:33 <os2hq> Ratti: GOOD!
10-15-97 21:07:37 <os2hq> Keep it up!
10-15-97 21:07:51 <os2hq> Can you see, there's NO LIMIT with this name?
10-15-97 21:07:52 * UncleGrim wonders why he's been volunteered for an officer position when he hasn't even been to one of these meetings in months
10-15-97 21:08:05 <os2hq> UG: That's what you get for coming to a meeting!
10-15-97 21:08:16 <Ratti> Only, how the !@$% do I get the handle off my safe?
10-15-97 21:08:17 <os2hq> Ratti: great way to sell OS/2 security products, too.
10-15-97 21:08:39 <os2hq> Ratti: Somebody with an airbrush software program???
10-15-97 21:08:44 <UncleGrim> is it in the Bylaws or . . . ?
10-15-97 21:08:50 <Ratti> HQ: I like it.
10-15-97 21:08:56 <mandie> uncle: I believe that's where it's at
10-15-97 21:09:04 <os2hq> Ratti: You can do that with anything, right?
10-15-97 21:09:12 <os2hq> Find the World's Biggest Handle and do that.
10-15-97 21:09:20 <Dark> Sorry to interupt, but WebbNet has entered the RC5 key decoding race. If your willing to join the webbnet team, please /msg me. It is a low priority program that only uses up unused cpu cycles, and can win the network more than enough money to purchasse a domain name, and get off it's feet... Thanks!
10-15-97 21:09:32 <Ratti> hq: true. BTW, I flunked arts-and-crafts in kindergarten...
10-15-97 21:09:57 <os2hq> Ratti: We have a team of experts getting together at Warpstock. We can lure somebody into VOICE to get this thing going.
10-15-97 21:10:30 <Ratti> I thought you wanted something before Warpstock
10-15-97 21:10:41 <os2hq> Who do you think the "average consumer" would rather call for a PC upgrade: "Team OS/2", or "Team Handyman"??
10-15-97 21:10:48 <os2hq> Ratti: I doubt we have time. :(
10-15-97 21:11:00 <os2hq> But, if you can doctor something up....
10-15-97 21:11:02 <mandie> projects does excellent graphics!
10-15-97 21:11:03 <Ratti> I have a friend with a digital camera...
10-15-97 21:11:08 <mandie> as does our webmaster ptackbar
10-15-97 21:11:11 <os2hq> Go for it!
10-15-97 21:11:21 <Ratti> I'll at least try to get a picture of my safe...
10-15-97 21:11:39 <Ratti> it may have to wait until friday
10-15-97 21:11:44 <UncleGrim> " form and maintain a healthy relationship with User Groups, ISVs, IOTTA, and IBM. " <-- I see this not working real well for me; my views are very often radical and if you've spent much time in undernet #os/2 you know that, while people may ask for my advice on stuff, they usually don't care for the way I handle most things
10-15-97 21:11:44 <os2hq> Good enough, you can post it and/or email it to me. firstname.lastname@example.org
10-15-97 21:11:58 <UncleGrim> I think I'd best just become/remain a "member" for now
10-15-97 21:11:59 <os2hq> Ratti: okay, I'm leaving Tuesday.
10-15-97 21:12:00 <mandie> we need a pic of a blown up safe ..."How safe is YOUR system?"
10-15-97 21:12:20 <os2hq> Mandie: Need to stick to the name.
10-15-97 21:12:35 <Ratti> sorry, I need that safe...
10-15-97 21:12:52 <mandie> ok, the blown up safe "Can you HANDLE this?"
10-15-97 21:12:52 <Ratti> and I haven't handeled explosives in 20 years...
10-15-97 21:13:03 <mandie> ratti: hehehe
10-15-97 21:13:06 <UncleGrim> but thanks for nominating me for the position, anyway
10-15-97 21:13:08 <os2hq> Mandie: Better. How about "Everything's SAFER with Handles."
10-15-97 21:13:13 <mandie> uncle: thx :)
10-15-97 21:13:15 <MADodel> Any one else interested in the board secretary position?
10-15-97 21:13:39 <mandie> dark: hi :)
10-15-97 21:13:41 <UncleGrim> how about a non-blown up safe--"How best to Handle your data"
10-15-97 21:13:43 <os2hq> BTW, Ratti reminded me. We can also use Handel's classical music... as in "Handles' Messiah"!
10-15-97 21:13:57 <os2hq> UG: Yes, you've got it. Keep the ideas flowing!!
10-15-97 21:14:30 <Ratti> I never could "Handle" the Messiah. Nor could I reach Francis Scott's "Key".
10-15-97 21:14:40 <os2hq> Ratti. Hmmm......
10-15-97 21:14:43 <UncleGrim> or have line (1) over the image of the blown-up safe and line (2) under it . . .
10-15-97 21:14:51 <mandie> lol
10-15-97 21:14:55 <UncleGrim> (1) With Handles you know your data is secure
10-15-97 21:15:10 <os2hq> But there's a certain class of folks who would recognize the Pun on "Handel"
10-15-97 21:15:10 <UncleGrim> (2) With the other guys . . . ?
10-15-97 21:15:11 <Ratti> Anyway, I'll try to get a digital picture of the safe, and airbrush off the handle...
10-15-97 21:15:30 <os2hq> UG: Good, that kind of stuff.
10-15-97 21:15:32 <os2hq> Thanks Ratti.
10-15-97 21:15:37 * UncleGrim shrugs
10-15-97 21:15:56 <os2hq> I purposely picked a name with an unlimited number of such connections.
10-15-97 21:15:58 * Projects could just make a model of a safe... with handle on and off
10-15-97 21:15:58 <UncleGrim> I have lots of, usually strange, ideas on marketing
10-15-97 21:16:03 <MarcLC> ?
10-15-97 21:16:25 <os2hq> We need to be able to pepper people with this thing, over and over.
10-15-97 21:16:29 <Ratti> proj: model?
10-15-97 21:16:42 <os2hq> OS/2 just doesn't stick. As a customer told me: "It's just too generic!!"
10-15-97 21:16:51 <UncleGrim> just as I have a long list of new features/enhancements for Describe if anyone bothers to buy its copyright
10-15-97 21:17:13 <Projects> Ratti: 3d solid model... then raytraced
10-15-97 21:17:13 <os2hq> But this is only a small part of the puzzle....
10-15-97 21:17:13 * UncleGrim is just sick of hearing "OS/2? Is that half an OS? *lol*"
10-15-97 21:17:14 <MADodel> os2hq: to IBM is the problem
10-15-97 21:17:20 <Ratti> proj: ah...
10-15-97 21:17:24 <mandie> has anyone applied fixpack 4.....any stories to tell?
10-15-97 21:17:37 <MarcLC> it's not bad.
10-15-97 21:17:41 <os2hq> MAD: Yes, we need to do this so hard, IBM will have to follow.
10-15-97 21:17:45 <MarcLC> you looking for any particular fixes?
10-15-97 21:17:46 <Projects> mandie: haven't noticed any difference at all (fp3 prior)
10-15-97 21:17:51 <os2hq> FP3 is dead. Long live FP4!!
10-15-97 21:17:53 <UncleGrim> keep OS/2 in the name, but play it down some
10-15-97 21:17:56 <MADodel> mandie: I d/l it, but my system is running so well I afraid to try it.
10-15-97 21:18:01 <mandie> marc: no, just wondered if ppl had problems with it
10-15-97 21:18:12 <os2hq> UG: I'm talking about 2 specific marketing campaigns. One with OS/2, and one without.
10-15-97 21:18:18 <Ratti> I just installed FP32 - it seems to have correct *some* of the problems and inefficiencies that FP16 caused...
10-15-97 21:18:26 <os2hq> One with OS/2: to target OS/2-loyal folks. One without OS/2, for consumers.
10-15-97 21:18:33 <MarcLC> Not much in graphics subsystem fixes in it. They are being held for 5.
10-15-97 21:19:23 <os2hq> The deal is this: We can get Handles loaded onto TONS of enduser PCs EASY. How? The way MS did.
10-15-97 21:19:32 <Ratti> some of us don't have systems big enough to run Warp 4. I've got a copy right in my hand, but I won't try to run it on a 386/25 w/8MB!
10-15-97 21:19:35 <os2hq> As a SHELL on top of Windoze3.1.
10-15-97 21:19:38 <UncleGrim> os2, well I was just thinking: (in large, bold type) Workplace (or Handles, or whatever your consumerist name is for it) and then under that (in smaller letters) OS/2 Version 5.0
10-15-97 21:19:48 <mandie> ratti: wise man!
10-15-97 21:19:50 <os2hq> UG: okay, whatever. It works.
10-15-97 21:20:06 <os2hq> Ratti: That's right, we start with Handles as a non-OS/2 product.
10-15-97 21:20:19 <MarcLC> I wouldn't run it on a 486sx, want a math coproc for it.
10-15-97 21:20:24 <os2hq> We don't market OS/2 to consumers right away, just a Handles user interface.
10-15-97 21:20:25 <mandie> ratti: I put it on the 486 50mhz 8megs ram laptop...and I also put filebar as a wps replacement :)...stilll slow :(
10-15-97 21:21:05 <os2hq> We sell Handles as a Windows add on first.... then later, Handles Pro, or whatever, that's really OS/2 with the same GUI.
10-15-97 21:21:09 <UncleGrim> os2hq, ahh, so you're actually talking of essentially making the WPS for Windows (moreso than the EWS one) and calling it Handles? Yes/No?
10-15-97 21:21:10 <Mark> os2hq -- your on to something. OS/2 needs to split into a consumer and enterprise OS. IBM should consider giving the OS/2 source code to one or several small, consumer oriented venders (Stardock types) and let them develop their own bradned version. Much like Caldera and RedHat have done with Linux.
10-15-97 21:21:17 <os2hq> UG: YESSSSS!!!!!
10-15-97 21:21:20 <UncleGrim> cool idea
10-15-97 21:21:32 <os2hq> This is what I'm planning to roll out at Warpstock!
10-15-97 21:21:41 * MADodel has it installed on a Gateway 486 with an AMD 75 P5 in the overdrive. Runs OK. Not as well as the PP200 though. :-)
10-15-97 21:21:42 <MarcLC> Lots you can do to speed it up. Like don't install WarpGuide
10-15-97 21:21:51 <os2hq> Mark: Yes, you're on the right track for sure.
10-15-97 21:22:20 <os2hq> Kill warpguide, VoiceType, and the networking stuff. It's awfully fast here. The BOOT TIME is what stinks!
10-15-97 21:22:32 <MarcLC> the less you install that hooks things, the faster yuo'll run.
10-15-97 21:22:38 <UncleGrim> kill Java if you don't use it
10-15-97 21:22:43 <os2hq> What I mean is, we can fine-tune an OEM version of Warp 4, so it still runs the Lotus stuff, but it boots & runs faster.
10-15-97 21:23:02 <os2hq> Another point: What made Windows a big seller was Office. No doubt about it.
10-15-97 21:23:03 <mandie> marclc: I didn't install anything that I didn't need...no sound..no warpguide...nothing special at all
10-15-97 21:23:28 <swish0> Would it be possible to modify the tabs at the top of (settings, WP, spreadsheet) notebook pages to look more like handles?
10-15-97 21:23:33 <os2hq> Mandie: What I'm thinking is.... by this time next year, a LOT of folks will have more powerful machines than they do now.
10-15-97 21:23:51 <os2hq> swish: interesting idea... but I was thinking more of the APIs.
10-15-97 21:23:52 <Ratti> hq: even me, I hope...
10-15-97 21:24:01 <os2hq> Ratti: I do upgrades. Cheap.
10-15-97 21:24:12 <MarcLC> what APIs?
10-15-97 21:24:21 <os2hq> anyone who wants cheap Pentiums, e-mail me, email@example.com
10-15-97 21:24:23 <mandie> os2hq: find me *cheap* ram for my nec :(
10-15-97 21:24:30 <Ratti> Oh, I think I can handle the upgrade. It's the money I'm lacking.
10-15-97 21:24:40 <MarcLC> Need to upgrade my old P100
10-15-97 21:24:43 <UncleGrim> swish, well I believe there's a project going to replace Warp 4's folders and such with more modern looking (BeOS-like) ones with the tabbed titlebars and such
10-15-97 21:24:47 <mandie> Ratti: same here..I want to u/g to a K6
10-15-97 21:24:52 <os2hq> Ratti: there, you used the word "handles". Another good one
10-15-97 21:24:58 <os2hq> K6 is dirt cheap already.
10-15-97 21:25:05 <Ratti> I know
10-15-97 21:25:06 * UncleGrim has about all the system he needs :-)
10-15-97 21:25:17 <os2hq> What I mean about APIs.
10-15-97 21:25:18 <Ratti> Are there any problems using K^ w/Warp?
10-15-97 21:25:25 <Ratti> that's K6
10-15-97 21:25:28 <os2hq> Is that the public has no idea what an API is.
10-15-97 21:25:38 <Mark> RE: MS Office -- Will Lotus SmartSuite 97 for OS/2 come out in Q1 98 as planned?
10-15-97 21:25:40 <os2hq> So, don't call it an API. Call it a Handle.
10-15-97 21:25:50 <UncleGrim> BRB
10-15-97 21:25:53 <MarcLC> public doesn't care. they don't use APIs, They use programs
10-15-97 21:26:08 <os2hq> But programs require APIs to load.
10-15-97 21:26:09 <mandie> ratti: no, as a matter of fact..a friend of os2hq's is the one that convinced me that k6 is the way to go..he builds os2 systems
10-15-97 21:26:51 <os2hq> So, bring the DOS, Windows, Java, OS/2 etc. right out to the main screen. Call them "handles." Use Handles icons for each one.
10-15-97 21:27:02 * Projects wants a k9... computer and watchdog all in one...
10-15-97 21:27:02 <Ratti> I thought the K6 had a much slower math co-processor than the comparable Intel chip. Or was that the Cyrix?
10-15-97 21:27:02 <MADodel> mandie: unless you want SMP, k6 is the way to go
10-15-97 21:27:04 <mandie> lol
10-15-97 21:27:13 <os2hq> One thing the consumer has NEVER figured out, is how to install programs.
10-15-97 21:27:15 <Ratti> We all want SMP
10-15-97 21:27:20 <mandie> mad: I have no use for SMP
10-15-97 21:27:30 <mandie> ratti: what would you use a multi-processor for?
10-15-97 21:27:36 <MarcLC> everyone can use SMP. They just don't know it/
10-15-97 21:27:40 * MADodel wants OS/2 Warp SMP. :-(
10-15-97 21:27:59 <os2hq> So, make it easy. "What kind of handle does your program use?" "A DOS handle." "Okay, just right-click the DOS handle and follow the installation instructions."
10-15-97 21:28:01 * mandie doesn't know it..but she doesn't think she has any use for smp :)
10-15-97 21:28:02 <MickBrown> os2hq: they used to call APIs OS services
10-15-97 21:28:03 * Projects wants win32 compatibility before smp
10-15-97 21:28:24 <os2hq> MB: Yes, and the consumer still doesn't know what that means!!!
10-15-97 21:28:24 <MarcLC> <--- want's good OS/2 apps.
10-15-97 21:28:31 <swish0> os2hq: Sounds like a nice idea, making the (API) handles more accessible. Would be great to have a VisualAge-style visual programming interface, dragging a connection between the handles of two different objects.
10-15-97 21:28:37 <Ratti> I've got an SMP Pentium Pro 200 w/64 MB at work. (2 processors). Running, pardon my language, NT. No, of course I don't have a choice.
10-15-97 21:28:38 <mandie> projects: Timur Tabi is doing a presentation on win32 at Warpstock
10-15-97 21:28:42 * Projects agrees with MarcLC
10-15-97 21:28:46 <UncleGrim> K6 has slower math-co than same speed Pentium Pro/PentiumII
10-15-97 21:28:47 <UncleGrim> but I *think* it's somehwat comparable to same-speed PentiumMMX
10-15-97 21:28:52 <UncleGrim> I have good OS/2 apps, I just want more of them (ie more support of ISVs by IBM)
10-15-97 21:28:54 <Projects> mandie: I know... :)
10-15-97 21:29:05 <Projects> mandie: keep me informed on that one will ya? :)
10-15-97 21:29:12 <os2hq> swish: the idea is, of course, that the consumer will now know that there ARE programs other than Windows apps.
10-15-97 21:29:23 <MickBrown> os2hq: like they know what all the TLAs like API mean?
10-15-97 21:29:44 <mandie> projects: sure...we might have someone that will be doing video's of the sessions and selling them
10-15-97 21:29:44 <UncleGrim> if IBM doesn't make the next OS/2 SMP-enabled, it's going to start falling far behind--NT Workstation has SMP, BeOS will have SMP
10-15-97 21:29:48 <Ratti> does the slower math co affect VoiceType?
10-15-97 21:29:50 <swish0> os2hq: and can tie those programs together him/herself, even if from different vendors
10-15-97 21:30:05 <os2hq> MB: That's just it, they don't know because it's named wrong. A program needs a "handle" in your system, a "handle" with a matching API.
10-15-97 21:30:09 <UncleGrim> Ratti, Voicetype is heavily FPU (math-co) intensive
10-15-97 21:30:11 <os2hq> swish: yes, exactly!!!!
10-15-97 21:30:24 <UncleGrim> but all it requires is a P100 I think, so a K6-200 will be fine
10-15-97 21:30:51 <os2hq> Just dump the API tag to the consumer, just call it a handle.
10-15-97 21:30:51 <Projects> mandie: cool :)
10-15-97 21:30:51 <os2hq> uses VoiceType on a Cyrix166 w/32MB. Okay.
10-15-97 21:31:11 <Ratti> UG: that's what concerned my about the K6
10-15-97 21:31:11 * UncleGrim has a Cyrix P166 but no VoiceType :-)
10-15-97 21:31:11 <MarcLC> call it a meal
10-15-97 21:31:34 <os2hq> So, you put a set of Handles out on the desktop, each with an explanation inside: What type it is. What that means. How to install that kind of app. How it uses memory. Etc.
10-15-97 21:32:03 <os2hq> Then you can say "Yes, my system Handles that kind of program...."
10-15-97 21:32:03 <Mark> os2hq -- sounds like a new interface
10-15-97 21:32:08 <swish0> move the cursor over a handle and bubble help comes up
10-15-97 21:32:11 <MarcLC> ouch
10-15-97 21:32:23 <os2hq> Mark: a new GUI, but like WPS in the undercarriage.
10-15-97 21:32:29 <os2hq> swish: yes, exactly.
10-15-97 21:32:38 <Projects> option to not install the 'handles' of course...
10-15-97 21:32:43 <swish0> sort of like Sierra's Incredible Machine
10-15-97 21:32:46 <UncleGrim> doesn't Secant have a freeware bubble-text app for the WPS?
10-15-97 21:33:01 <os2hq> Projects: They're always there, but can become "invisible" or go into a "Handyman's Toolbox"
10-15-97 21:33:08 <MickBrown> os2hq: I see where you're going... the computer field is full of the relicts of IBM manual speak that is probably confusing even to the manual writers
10-15-97 21:33:23 <Projects> os2hq: hmm... not the shredder? :)
10-15-97 21:33:33 <os2hq> MB: yes, exactly.
10-15-97 21:33:48 <os2hq> Proj: That too. But remember, the OS/2 FullScreen is one of the Handles!
10-15-97 21:33:53 * Projects uses a toilet icon and flush sound in place of the shredder... toilet with a HANDLE! :)
10-15-97 21:34:02 <os2hq> PROJ: LOL!
10-15-97 21:34:17 <os2hq> Yes, a "Destructo Handle"
10-15-97 21:34:39 <Projects> best handle I've got :)
10-15-97 21:34:40 <os2hq> Also, you can have a "Compression Handle" like Object Desktop....
10-15-97 21:35:07 <os2hq> Basically, what we're talking about is dumping all that dopey terminology like "fullscreen" or "API" or "type of program" or whatever.
10-15-97 21:35:24 <Projects> and a user handle to config yourself for internet...
10-15-97 21:35:27 <os2hq> Just ask the customer: Does your software have a Java handle?
10-15-97 21:35:36 <os2hq> Proj: yes, an internet handle.
10-15-97 21:35:41 <mandie> os2hq: so we're bringing it down to the level of the windoze user?
10-15-97 21:35:45 <os2hq> You're getting the idea now.
10-15-97 21:35:46 <Mark> I like it!
10-15-97 21:35:47 <MickBrown> could you place one of the damnable wavy flags above it and a plunger above that
10-15-97 21:36:01 <os2hq> Mandie: The complexity is there, but the *terminology* gets down to consumer level.
10-15-97 21:36:33 <swish0> "functionality", not complexity
10-15-97 21:36:37 <os2hq> The key is to use terminology that people "grasp" (pun intended)
10-15-97 21:36:42 <os2hq> swish: yes, better word.
10-15-97 21:36:58 <os2hq> "Get a Grip -- with Handles"
10-15-97 21:37:17 <Mark> This makes much more sense than the Win32 "Start" button!
10-15-97 21:37:18 <os2hq> Logo program: "Grab It!" ..... It works with Handles!"
10-15-97 21:37:25 <os2hq> Mark: yes, doesn't it!!
10-15-97 21:37:39 <MickBrown> function... functionality is such a buzzword that even the clueless are suspecting it hides hype
10-15-97 21:37:48 <Projects> "How do you want to HANDLE your data today?"
10-15-97 21:37:55 <UncleGrim> heh
10-15-97 21:37:56 <os2hq> Projects: good!!
10-15-97 21:38:17 <UncleGrim> but data is somewhat less than consumer-oriented, even
10-15-97 21:38:18 <os2hq> "Even a beginner can now Handle computers!!"
10-15-97 21:38:34 <os2hq> "Get a Handle on your computing needs!"
10-15-97 21:39:02 <MarcLC> just Handle it
10-15-97 21:39:02 <Mark> Does your computer HANDLE mission-critical applications?
10-15-97 21:39:07 <os2hq> The idea is to get as many of these out into as many W3.1 users' hands as possible.... even PowerMac users.
10-15-97 21:39:25 <os2hq> Mark: Yes, you see, it is UNLIMITED what you can do with this name!!!
10-15-97 21:39:28 <Mark> Get a hand on HANDLEs
10-15-97 21:39:36 <os2hq> Grab a Handle.
10-15-97 21:40:04 <os2hq> Now, the next step: for Non-Profits, we get a special subset of Team Handyman called....
10-15-97 21:40:04 <Projects> Handle with care... hmm...
10-15-97 21:40:04 <MarcLC> Get a Handle on the future
10-15-97 21:40:04 <os2hq> The Helping Hands!!!
10-15-97 21:40:30 <os2hq> Everything must sound helpful & friendly to the consumer... something they can "handle."
10-15-97 21:40:38 <os2hq> Marc: good. Proj: yes!
10-15-97 21:40:40 <Projects> Handle with care (the other guy)... Handle with confidence (us)
10-15-97 21:41:04 <os2hq> Proj: great. Alright, I have a feeling we're going to have one popular logfile here!!!!
10-15-97 21:41:24 * Projects hopes someone is indeed logging :)
10-15-97 21:41:37 <mandie> madodel *always* logs :)
10-15-97 21:41:51 <os2hq> Show a basketball player losing the ball.... and another one with a handle on the ball. "Don't you wish EVERYTHING had Handles?"
10-15-97 21:41:51 <mandie> madlog is running :)
10-15-97 21:42:03 <MADlog> :-)
10-15-97 21:42:07 <os2hq> Show a chubby person. "Don't you just Love Handles?"
10-15-97 21:42:16 <mandie> LOL!
10-15-97 21:42:23 * UncleGrim rolls his eyes <(*)> <(*)>
10-15-97 21:42:24 <mandie> Love Handles...I like it!
10-15-97 21:42:48 <os2hq> We must make the name Handles "inescapable" just as Windows has been.
10-15-97 21:42:56 <os2hq> The directory name: WIN for Windows, HAND for Handles.
10-15-97 21:43:10 <os2hq> Also, we can use the music of W.C. Handy....
10-15-97 21:43:16 <UncleGrim> hand.com?
10-15-97 21:43:19 <os2hq> Handel, and of course James Taylor.
10-15-97 21:43:20 <MickBrown> How can we incorporate security features in this? I.e. most of the MS internet stuff defaults to promiscuous modes like wingate DNEWS and MS servers
10-15-97 21:43:25 <os2hq> UG: Sorry, that's taken!
10-15-97 21:43:37 <os2hq> MB: yes, we need to look at that.
10-15-97 21:43:57 <os2hq> But guess what, teamhandyman.com is NOT TAKEN! I checked!
10-15-97 21:44:10 <os2hq> handyman.com IS taken.
10-15-97 21:44:10 <os2hq> handles.com IS taken.
10-15-97 21:44:26 <os2hq> But Teamhandyman can have Handles branched off of it.
10-15-97 21:44:45 <os2hq> The idea is to make the "best of TeamOS/2" into a Selling Point for Handles/OS/2
10-15-97 21:44:57 <os2hq> Important that we don't have any Zealotry.
10-15-97 21:45:00 <Ratti> how 'bout handyman.org?
10-15-97 21:45:05 <UncleGrim> well...if you were to use Handles as a desktop replacement (like Norton Desktop used to be) and add its own winsock and such, you might be able to implement better security than the WinDOS internet apps themselves have built-in
10-15-97 21:45:08 <Projects> be nice to get a spokesperson like Tim the Toolman or even Al...
10-15-97 21:45:11 <os2hq> Ratti: I think that's probably okay.
10-15-97 21:45:20 <os2hq> UG: YES!
10-15-97 21:45:28 <os2hq> Proj: YES!
10-15-97 21:45:33 <os2hq> You're all on a roll!
10-15-97 21:45:40 <UncleGrim> good one Proj
10-15-97 21:45:57 <os2hq> Hmmmm... maybe even JT himself....
10-15-97 21:45:58 <UncleGrim> Tim the Toolman Taylor gets a Handle on his PC
10-15-97 21:46:06 <os2hq> UG: LOL!
10-15-97 21:46:06 <Projects> the Tim the Toolman idea has been discussed before... in teamos2-l I believe
10-15-97 21:46:07 * UncleGrim shrugs
10-15-97 21:46:18 <Projects> would work nicely though
10-15-97 21:46:32 <os2hq> Okay, so we show Tim putting a physical Handle on his PC, and somebody explains, No! Not that kind of Handle!!!
10-15-97 21:47:00 <os2hq> Okay, next item: the Packaging. What do you think comes on top of each box of Handles???
10-15-97 21:47:11 <Projects> "Let's see how a real man Handles his computer"
10-15-97 21:47:19 <Abraxas> hehe....a HANDLE????
10-15-97 21:47:22 <os2hq> Proj: LOL!
10-15-97 21:47:26 * MickBrown flash: windows requires a security condom, OS/2 practices safe net
10-15-97 21:47:29 <Projects> the price :)
10-15-97 21:47:39 <Projects> hahahaha
10-15-97 21:47:40 <os2hq> Abraxas! Yes, of course, we start small, with a basic plastic handle.
10-15-97 21:48:06 <os2hq> Then, when Handles2000 (the OS/2 included, not just a Shell), we upgrade to a nice, brass handle!
10-15-97 21:48:26 <os2hq> Or Handles Pro, or whatever.
10-15-97 21:48:41 <UncleGrim> just don't call it Handles/2
10-15-97 21:48:45 <UncleGrim> :-|
10-15-97 21:48:48 <Projects> Prohandles
10-15-97 21:48:51 <MarcLC> half a handle?
10-15-97 21:48:52 <os2hq> UG: Hmmmm...... I don't think so.
10-15-97 21:49:03 <os2hq> We want to shuck the name OS/2 eventually.
10-15-97 21:49:11 <UncleGrim> exactly
10-15-97 21:49:14 <os2hq> Besides, we should cash in on the Year2000 craze.
10-15-97 21:49:30 <os2hq> Handles2000 advertises its ability to Handle 2000.
10-15-97 21:49:35 <UncleGrim> OH!
10-15-97 21:49:42 <Ratti> 2000 Handles - like 2000 Flushes ---- sorry
10-15-97 21:49:43 <UncleGrim> thank you for reminding me of the 2000 thing
10-15-97 21:49:51 <os2hq> Ratti: LOL!
10-15-97 21:49:52 <MickBrown> 2nd Millenium Handles
10-15-97 21:49:55 <UncleGrim> was going to add that as the 82nd point of comparison between Warp 4 and Win95
10-15-97 21:50:14 * Projects 's toilet icon could come in handy :)
10-15-97 21:50:16 <MickBrown> Handles ready for the 3rd Millenium
10-15-97 21:50:32 <os2hq> Well, MS will cash in on the Y2K thing, they're maybe calling their thingie "Millennium"
10-15-97 21:50:41 <os2hq> So, we must "zig" if they "zag"
10-15-97 21:50:57 <os2hq> Just don't call it Y2K. That is NOT a consumer name.
10-15-97 21:50:58 <Abraxas> or "zig" befdore they "zag"
10-15-97 21:51:10 <Projects> damn... that's one that will stick in the consumer's mind...
10-15-97 21:51:24 <os2hq> Abraxas: it's VERY important we don't get our thing sucked up into their ads.
10-15-97 21:51:30 * UncleGrim says "Snag Millenium before they do"
10-15-97 21:51:43 <os2hq> Grab, or Handle it.
10-15-97 21:51:55 <os2hq> Probably too late, with the tv series....
10-15-97 21:52:01 <UncleGrim> no, I meant that as a directive, not a slogan
10-15-97 21:52:02 <UncleGrim> :-)
10-15-97 21:52:07 <UncleGrim> what tv series?
10-15-97 21:52:08 <os2hq> UG: I thought so!
10-15-97 21:52:14 * UncleGrim doesn't watch TV much anymore
10-15-97 21:52:17 <os2hq> There's a tv series called Millennium.
10-15-97 21:52:21 <Ratti> 1) I don't think we _could_ "snag" Millennium. B) Microsoft _Can_
10-15-97 21:52:22 <UncleGrim> oh :-(
10-15-97 21:52:25 <os2hq> Neither do I.
10-15-97 21:52:34 <Projects> UncleGrim: Millenium!
10-15-97 21:52:51 <os2hq> I went cold turkey for 7 years. As soon as I move out from my folks place, it's back on the wagon.
10-15-97 21:53:18 <os2hq> David Both has Millennium Technology already. Bet he gets a call from an MS Shark.
10-15-97 21:53:35 <Projects> heh
10-15-97 21:53:42 <UncleGrim> hi Pwirtz
10-15-97 21:53:46 <Pwirtz> Hi all
10-15-97 21:54:08 <os2hq> Okay, let's review. We need to get Brad Wardell and whoever wrote the WPS thingie for Windows, both into our camp on this.
10-15-97 21:54:20 <os2hq> We need some picture of various everyday items, with & without the Handle.
10-15-97 21:54:31 <mandie> pwirtz!! hi :)
10-15-97 21:54:44 <os2hq> I'm doing the music, I'm planning to shop tomorrow for Handy, JT, and Handel.
10-15-97 21:54:49 <MarcLC> hi again, Pwitrz
10-15-97 21:54:55 <Pwirtz> hi mandie, I live!
10-15-97 21:55:00 <Abraxas> os2hq Like items that would be totally usaeless without a handle?
10-15-97 21:55:10 <os2hq> We need to prep the new GUI and make sure it's consumer-ready.
10-15-97 21:55:17 <mandie> pwirtz: good to hear...they sure worked you to death!
10-15-97 21:55:19 <os2hq> Abrax: Yes, exactly!!!!
10-15-97 21:55:37 <MarcLC> like?
10-15-97 21:55:43 <os2hq> Now, here's the clincher: Do we name Handles work on W95/NT, or not?
10-15-97 21:55:58 <os2hq> Marc: Toilet, faucet, deskdrawer, cabinet, gate, window, car door, etc.
10-15-97 21:56:00 <Pwirtz> I take my last Warp 4 cert test fri morning I'm off the rest of the week.
10-15-97 21:56:18 <os2hq> Can you IMAGINE how many times each day people will get reminded of our new product name???
10-15-97 21:56:44 <UncleGrim> os2hq, you mean "make Handles work on W95/NT"?
10-15-97 21:56:52 <mandie> pwirtz: you'll need the rest! so you can work your butt off at Warpstock :)
10-15-97 21:56:53 <os2hq> Do we make Handles for Win3.1 and OS/2 only, OR, do we try to include the Win32 crowd too?
10-15-97 21:56:58 <os2hq> UG: yes, that was my question.
10-15-97 21:57:05 <UncleGrim> okay
10-15-97 21:57:22 <os2hq> I think not. It would be a good idea if the ONLY path upwards was OS/2.
10-15-97 21:57:28 <Projects> os2hq: need win32 these days I'm afraid
10-15-97 21:57:46 <os2hq> Proj: but our #1 target audience is the W3.1 user/DOS user, right?
10-15-97 21:57:53 <UncleGrim> hmm...I think Win32 changes too often, plus even Symantec gave up the Desktop thing--might be too hard to "replace" the Win95/NT desktop on top of their OS
10-15-97 21:57:56 <os2hq> The point is not to make tons of dough here.
10-15-97 21:58:20 <os2hq> The point is to get our new GUI into the hands of whomever is most likely to go to OS/2. Those using Win32 apps are less likely.
10-15-97 21:58:21 <UncleGrim> right, so Win16 / OS/2 only
10-15-97 21:58:23 <Projects> os2hq: ok...
10-15-97 21:58:42 <UncleGrim> add a hand in the Win3.1-to-OS/2 upgrade path IBM originally intended
10-15-97 21:58:47 <Projects> ah... /me was confused. He's alright now though...
10-15-97 21:58:49 <os2hq> So, we may need to adjust the thingie so that it aborts nicely on Win32 platforms.
10-15-97 21:58:52 <MickBrown> I'd just want something that gave me an alternative to Linux/BSD with X
10-15-97 21:59:05 <os2hq> UG: Yes, do that pathway RIGHT this time.
10-15-97 21:59:09 <UncleGrim> yes
10-15-97 21:59:47 <os2hq> Okay, folks, I think you now have the essence of what I plan to roll out at Warpstock.... except the "niche market" analysis... that comes first, but would bore everyone here
10-15-97 21:59:58 <Mark> Gotta Go!
10-15-97 22:00:08 <MickBrown> night mark
10-15-97 22:00:25 <os2hq> Okay, thanks for letting me speak my mind, folks.
10-15-97 22:00:54 * Ratti will see y'all at Warpstock
10-15-97 22:00:56 <UncleGrim> all right, just sent the VOICE registration form to the printer
10-15-97 22:01:05 <UncleGrim> no prob hq :-)
10-15-97 22:01:16 <Abraxas> os2hq Actually made for quite an interstning meeting (and makes me wish even more that I could actully ATTEND Warpstock).
10-15-97 22:01:39 <os2hq> Abraxas: I estimate that for everyone going, there's 10 that would like to but can't.
10-15-97 22:01:46 <MarcLC> Yeah, wish I could get there too.
10-15-97 22:01:47 <Pwirtz> Time to start dinner! bye
10-15-97 22:02:00 <mandie> dON: that's good to hear :)
10-15-97 22:02:06 <UncleGrim> indeed--and it's about time, too :-)
10-15-97 22:02:14 <mandie> dON: you can send that and your check directly to projects if you'd like
10-15-97 22:02:23 <os2hq> Yes, my dinner will be on soon. Gnight all, see you at Warpstock!!!
10-15-97 22:02:39 <UncleGrim> later
10-15-97 22:02:45 <MADodel> Talk to you after Warp stock Tom
10-15-97 22:02:45 <os2hq> MAD: please send me a log ASAP, so I can prep my presentation, thanx.
10-15-97 22:02:46 <mandie> os2hq: see you there :)
10-15-97 22:02:48 <MickBrown> night os2hq
10-15-97 22:02:50 * UncleGrim will take his leave now, as well--probably go to undernet #os/2 for a bit
10-15-97 22:02:51 <Abraxas> mandie: is the Online registration in place, yet??
10-15-97 22:02:52 <MarcLC> Diiner?
10-15-97 22:03:06 * UncleGrim grabs an edge of his black velvet robe with one bony hand, his gleaming scythe clutched in the other.
10-15-97 22:03:10 <mandie> abraxas: I don't believe it is :(...but you can reg with BMT
10-15-97 22:03:14 * UncleGrim disappears in a flurry of black cloth and a cloud of dust (bone fragments?)
10-15-97 22:03:17 <MADodel> Abraxas: just the payemnt part, not the registration form
10-15-97 22:03:30 <MickBrown> question: where do I find how to restore windows access after installing NS/2? I lost my bookmark
10-15-97 22:03:43 <MickBrown> I'm using 3.0 flat
10-15-97 22:04:21 <mandie> MickBrown: you mean ability to use windoze clients?
10-15-97 22:04:35 <Projects> well, I'm outta here... later
10-15-97 22:04:38 <MickBrown> yep.. windows won't load from warp now
10-15-97 22:04:42 <mandie> projects: g'nite :)
10-15-97 22:04:45 <MarcLC> ciao.....
10-15-97 22:04:55 <MickBrown> night projects
10-15-97 22:05:05 <mandie> mick: reboot and then check the paths..for some reason they get trashed some times
10-15-97 22:06:04 * Abraxas remembers tha there was a trashed file in the NS/2 install the prevented windows from starting, but can't remember the filename to restore
10-15-97 22:06:07 <MickBrown> I thot there was something with seamless.dll involved too
10-15-97 22:06:24 <Abraxas> THAT'S IT!
10-15-97 22:06:24 <mandie> abraxas: wasn't that after applying a fixpack?
10-15-97 22:06:30 <MickBrown> I still have one of the older but not the first NS/2 installed
10-15-97 22:06:55 <MickBrown> I'm using v3 not Merlin/v4
10-15-97 22:06:55 <Abraxas> mandie: I believe it was in the NS/2 package, also
10-15-97 22:07:04 <mandie> the latest ns/2 should have the *good* seamless.dll
10-15-97 22:07:29 <Abraxas> mandie: yep...I think the date is June 27 on the file
10-15-97 22:07:29 <MickBrown> OK I'll try installing that and see if windows comes back
10-15-97 22:07:30 <mandie> mickbrown: did you uninstall before installing the newer version?
10-15-97 22:07:45 <MickBrown> At this point I forget
10-15-97 22:07:55 <mandie> mick: if you have no fp's applied..you're aware that you won't be able to use java in ns/2
10-15-97 22:08:11 <mandie> you need atleast fp26 with warp 3 to use java
10-15-97 22:09:20 <MickBrown> I had to reinstall and I forget whether I reapplied FPs
10-15-97 22:10:01 <mandie> syslevel should tell you
10-15-97 22:11:27 <MickBrown> OK .. so if I update NS/2 then apply FP windows should be usable again?
10-15-97 22:12:02 <mandie> mick: no, I wouldn't rely on the fp to fix windoze...check you paths and get windoze working before you apply the fix
10-15-97 22:12:30 <mandie> mick: have you rebooted since you were unable to access windoze?
10-15-97 22:12:35 <Abraxas> Newer fixpacks for Warp 3 (29+) should also have the new seamless.dll file, as well as Java support for NS/2
10-15-97 22:12:50 <mandie> abraxas: correct
10-15-97 22:13:07 <MickBrown> OK
10-15-97 22:13:22 <MickBrown> I hate messing with OS/2 installs
10-15-97 22:13:41 <mandie> it seems like every install is different :)
10-15-97 22:14:43 <mandie> well, I'd better get to work on my schedule...I'll see you all after Warpstock!! :)
10-15-97 22:14:45 <mandie> nytol :)
10-15-97 22:14:50 <MickBrown> I know. I've installed OS/2 about 8 times
10-15-97 22:15:17 <MADodel> MickBrown: The Warp 4.0 install is alot cleaner then 3.0's
10-15-97 22:15:22 <Abraxas> I haven't had to re-install Warp 4 at all...one time did it
10-15-97 22:15:59 <MickBrown> I had to move partitions around, and 3 of the reinstalls were 2.1
10-15-97 22:16:00 <Abraxas> MADodel: you ever get that monster hard drive working?
10-15-97 22:16:19 * MADodel has installed Warp 4-5 times in the past couple of weeks. :-(
10-15-97 22:17:10 <MADodel> Abraxas: yes. I lost that driver you sent me when my partitions disappeared. I'm back to the Warp Server driver
10-15-97 22:17:45 <MickBrown> well I guess I should get back to the spam wars...
10-15-97 22:18:01 <Abraxas> Spam wars??
10-15-97 22:18:04 <MADodel> I had to add two heat sinks and a fan. Now it runs more reliable
10-15-97 22:18:22 <Abraxas> MADodel: to the DRIVE???
10-15-97 22:18:26 <MickBrown> some bastard sent a submission with reply set to an autosponded so I'm getting lots of MLM/MMF in my email
10-15-97 22:18:39 <MADodel> Abraxas: yes on the drive
10-15-97 22:18:54 <MickBrown> I'm getting 60% spam submission
10-15-97 22:19:17 <Abraxas> I'd say you do have a war, then :-(
10-15-97 22:19:27 <MADodel> Anyone download the Lots Go web server?
10-15-97 22:19:34 <MADodel> Lotus that is
10-15-97 22:19:46 <Abraxas> I think I did
10-15-97 22:19:51 <MickBrown> about 40-50 /week and 20 on a personal account and 10 on two others
10-15-97 22:20:00 <Abraxas> I've slept since then
10-15-97 22:20:21 <MickBrown> It's almost as bad as being on AOL
10-15-97 22:20:21 <Abraxas> Mick Are you making any progress?
10-15-97 22:20:30 <Abraxas> hehe
10-15-97 22:21:35 <MickBrown> somewhat... I get lots of nuke reports.. unfortunately UUNET and Netcom aren't cooperative when they spam using another ISP
10-15-97 22:22:07 <MADodel> Well I have to call it a night. Hope to see you guys next month. We'll rehash what happened at Warpstock then.
10-15-97 22:22:13 <Abraxas> MADodel: I have a friend who put 2 5.25" Full Height 2-gig drives in his machine (full tower case) and kept getting system lockups and crashes.
10-15-97 22:22:27 <Abraxas> Aux cooling fan helped
10-15-97 22:23:04 <Abraxas> I gotta get going, too....my son works in a Pizza shop....he's bringing home dinner
10-15-97 22:23:10 <MADodel> Abraxas: The heat on this Cheetah is unbelievable
10-15-97 22:23:17 <Abraxas> I'll bet
10-15-97 22:23:26 <MADodel> bye all
10-15-97 22:23:36 <MickBrown> night all