SpeakUp with SciTech Software from 11/30/98
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:04:31 ] <Judy> VOICE would like to welcome our guests from SciTech Software...Kendall Bennett, Director of Engineering and Tom Ryan, Director of Marketing
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:04:33 ] * Projects doesn't have the megabux required to dump IDe
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:05:40 ] <Abraxas> A little quiet, please ... thanks\
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:05:53 ] <Judy> would you folks like to tell us a bit about yourselves and your new beta product?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:06:46 ] <TomR> SciTech makes a utility product called SciTech Display Doctor...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:07:24 ] <TomR> it has been under devlopment for several years and has moved from the DOS platform...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:07:41 ] <TomR> to Windows, Linux, QNx, and now OS/2!
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:08:06 ] <TomR> It is a universal graphics device driver utility that supports over 250 differnent graphics chips
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:08:36 ] <TomR> under OS/2, it offers a full GRADD driver, with 2D hardware acceleration and a bunch of features
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:09:30 ] <TomR> that people are used to on the Windows platform, including plug and play setup, tons of resolutions (from
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:10:27 ] <TomR> low resolution game modes to high resolution display modes, 16,:9 modes, portrait modes), fully programmable refresh
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:10:28 ] <TomR> rates
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:10:39 ] <TomR> ...and more. ;)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:11:15 ] <TomR> Was that a good summary?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:11:22 ] <Judy> yes :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:12:24 ] <TomR> Any other questions?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:12:35 ] <madodel> Are resolution changes on the fly? or do they require a reboot?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:13:10 ] <KendallB> Right now resolution changing requires a reboot of OS/2.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:13:22 ] <KendallB> We are working to find a solution for existing systems, but PM and GRE were not designed to handle this.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:13:37 ] <KendallB> However the good news is that we have good contacts within IBM who are willing to put in the time
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:13:53 ] <KendallB> to work on the GRE and PM changes so that in a future fixpack release we could have full support for this.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:14:09 ] <KendallB> The only catch is that they have to work in their spare time on any GRE/PM changes at the moment...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:14:22 ] <Swanee> When do you expect to release a beta version?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:14:28 ] <madodel> what is GRE?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:15:01 ] <Swanee> Guess... GRE=Graphical resolution Engine
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:15:10 ] <madodel> Ah, Thanks
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:15:27 ] <KendallB> Unofficially were are aiming for a beta release of our drivers later this week, or early next week.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:15:36 ] <Swanee> madodel: That's only a guess
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:15:57 ] <KendallB> GRE = GRaphics Engine, and is the equivalent of GDI for Windows.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:16:02 ] <Swanee> someone just said it was a "graphical rendering engine"
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:16:07 ] <KendallB> When you call GpiBitBlt, it is handled by GRE.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:16:30 ] * madodel has never called GpiBitBlt
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:16:56 ] <Swanee> KendallB: Have you filled your quota of initial testers?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:17:03 ] <Judy> KendallB: are you still accepting beta testers?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:17:03 ] * Swanee applied
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:17:50 ] <wildrose> hello all
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:18:05 ] <KendallB> We are still accepting beta testers at this stage. If you want to participate email me a copy of the beta request form.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:18:11 ] <SpaceRat> wildrose: shut up, sit down, take a paper and a pencil and take notes ;->
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:18:30 ] <Klaus> KendallB: What about hardware-OpenGL support ?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:18:32 ] <KendallB> BTW, if people do not have the request form, I can put a copy on our web site somewhere...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:18:46 ] <wildrose> kendallB: that would be excellent
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:18:57 ] <KendallB> There will be no hardware OpenGL support in the first release of the product.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:19:16 ] <KendallB> However we have been working hard on our cross platform OpenGL drivers, and plan to bring full 3D hardware OpenGL
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:19:23 ] <KendallB> to the OS/2 platform in the future.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:19:29 ] <Recusant> What is the relationship of SciTech Display Doctor to the existing graphic subsystems? (DIVE/GRADD/etc)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:19:48 ] <KendallB> Some of the issues we are dealing with are the IBM/SGI licensing for OpenGL, and IBM is working with us to find a solution.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:20:19 ] <KendallB> SDD for OS/2 is a full GRADD driver, and we have support for DIVE in our drivers. We are also working on full EnDIVE support
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:20:25 ] <KendallB> which includes hardware video overlays and scaling support.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:21:08 ] <Swanee> Does the Display Doctor overcome some of the resolution limitations in OS/2. Like a 2 meg card in 1024x768 mode that only goes to 65k because OS/2 uses part of the memory? (Correct my thinking on this)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:21:29 ] <Recusant> So then it would completely replace my G200 drivers that I normally get from Matrox?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:21:32 ] <KendallB> We no no resolution limitations in our drivers. Whatever you card can handle, we can support in our drivers.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:21:59 ] <KendallB> Yes, it would completely replace the Matrox drivers that you would be using at the moment.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:22:16 ] <Recusant> Ah. I understand now.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:22:17 ] <Judy> so this is like a universal driver
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:22:24 ] <madodel> What are some of the cards this driver supports?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:22:29 ] <KendallB> BTW, on the supported resolution front, we have just added a new feature to our drivers that we have called 'Dial-A-Mode'.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:22:38 ] <Sub0OS2> Would there be any hit in performance vs. the official drivers from matrox?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:23:03 ] <KendallB> Just say you want some funky resolution for playing console emulator games. With Dial-A-Mode you can create any custom resolultion you like ;-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:23:12 ] <SpaceRat> KendallB: in the OS/2 PDD mailing list, you initially remarked that you started on the OS/2 version due to a customer order. who is that customer?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:23:47 ] <KendallB> There should be no performance hit when using our drivers compared to IHV drivers (like Matroxes). In fact for many hardware devices
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:23:59 ] <KendallB> we expect our drivers to be faster (we are working hard to support this goal).
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:24:23 ] <Klaus> KendallB: Do you Support "Hardware-Zoom" like in the Matrox Drivers?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:24:25 ] <TomR> Due to NDA
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:24:26 ] <Recusant> Could I do say... 1440x512 with dial-a-mode?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:25:15 ] <TomR> ..we cannot release the name of the customer, but I can say that it was fro an embedded system
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:25:23 ] <KendallB> Klaus: We do not have hardware zoom in our drivers yet, but we can easily support this and are planning a feature like this.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:25:28 ] <wildrose> what about video capture?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:25:34 ] <KendallB> Recusant: Yes, you could do 1440x512 if you wanted ;-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:25:41 ] <wildrose> specifially for cuseeme/2
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:26:06 ] <Recusant> yay! :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:26:08 ] <KendallB> wildrose: Video capture is currently outside the scope of our drivers, so we can't help with that side of things (yet).
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:26:44 ] <Klaus> KendallB: and.. a "preview of the new resolution" like the ElsaOS/2 drivers?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:26:48 ] <SpaceRat> KendallB: would you mind installing the Win95 Matrox drivers to blatantly copy all bells'n'whistles? :-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:26:53 ] <Kerni> KendallB: is the ibm-team, you are in contact with, willing to include font-antialiasing ?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:27:26 ] <herbie> sorry to be late: what's dial-a-mode?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:27:29 ] <SpaceRat> TomR: any plans on the pricing yet?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:27:39 ] <Sub0OS2> I came in late on this discussion, has pricing for the final drivers been discussed? and will there be any programs for bundling the drivers with prebuilt systems?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:28:24 ] <KendallB> Klaus: Our control center for OS/2 will allow you to size, center and test all available display modes without rebooting. You just want be able to make it the active OS/2 desktop mode without rebooting.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:28:35 ] <TomR> At this point, it looks like the pricing is going to be $39.95 per copy. We are going to offer a special deal for people
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:28:35 ] <DaBull> if not proprietary, how many units are we talking for scitech to feel os/3 is a viable market for continued support?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:28:45 ] <DaBull> os/2 even
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:28:50 ] <KendallB> SpaceRat: Well let us know what features you really want, and we can look at including them in our drivers.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:29:06 ] <TomR> who buy the product during the preview period. Get on the SDD for OS/2 inform list and we will let you know all the details
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:29:17 ] <Dark> This may have been mentioned earlier ( I joined late) but will there be support for Diamond MultiMedia drivers? (Specifically the Viper v330?)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:29:17 ] <SpaceRat> KendallB: PixelTouch is definitely a feature i want...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:29:26 ] <KendallB> Herbie: Dial-A-Mode is a new feature in our drivers that will allow you to create any custom resolution you want, like 1440x512.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:29:42 ] <madodel> TomR: how does one get on that list/
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:29:43 ] <wildrose> kendallb: at this point, I would sacrifice all the "features" in the world for a driver that doesn't corrupt the screen
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:29:45 ] <Death_Syn> Herbie: as long as hardware supports it, of course
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:29:47 ] <SpaceRat> TomR: are there any plans to offer the product to hardware vendors?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:30:56 ] <KendallB> Dark: We are definatelyl planning support for the NVidia chipsets, and Nvidia is working closely with us to make sure our stuff works properly.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:31:17 ] <Dark> KendallB: Whelp... You just made yourself a sale...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:31:20 ] <KendallB> SpaceRat: I am not sure what PixelTouch is. Can you explain it in more detail?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:31:23 ] <SpaceRat> TomR: i think about, let's say S3, or ELSA or other companies that don't hide that they don't really want to spend the money on OS/2 driver development anymore...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:31:37 ] <SpaceRat> KendallB: Press a hotkey combination and get 2x zoom
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:31:40 ] <KendallB> wildrose: Well then do I have a driver for you!
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:31:46 ] <SpaceRat> KendallB: Press the hotkey combination again and get 4x zoom
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:31:48 ] <TomR> Due to the portablity of SciTech technology, once we support a platform like OS/2, it is easy for us to keep providing updates with support for new chips,etc. so as long as OS/3 or whatever is not a completely radical departure, we will support it.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:31:51 ] <SpaceRat> KendallB: Press the hotkey combination again and get normal view
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:32:23 ] <Death_Syn> KendallB: Basically PixelTouch is just hardware zoom function of the Matrox cards
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:32:42 ] <Sub0OS2> SpaceRat: on the unified drivers for matrox they can go up as far as 5x zoom...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:32:43 ] <KendallB> SpaceRat: Ok, I have been thinking of a similar feature (virtual resolution switching with hardware panning), which is what I think PixelTouch must be?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:32:55 ] <SpaceRat> Sub0OS2: numbers...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:32:58 ] <Death_Syn> KendallB: yes
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:33:46 ] <TomR> We plan to market SDD to hardware vendors, who can bundle it with their product as well as directly to end users. The version that you get from hardware vedors may just have the basic features, while the full version of SDD will have all the bells and whistles. If you want your hardware vendor to license SDD for their chips, by all means, let them know about it!!!
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:34:26 ] <JohnY> (Joined late) Have the beta's been released yet ?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:34:34 ] <TomR> SciTech is going to make it very easy for hardware vendors to support OS/2 in the future. :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:34:38 ] <Death_Syn> JohnY: no
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:34:48 ] <TomR> No the beta has not been released. yet.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:34:56 ] <SpaceRat> TomR: to be honest, i don't feel much like paying for something that Win-users get for free. and other users will think as same...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:35:22 ] <SpaceRat> TomR: sure SDD has more features than a plain graphics driver...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:35:25 ] <herbie> TomR: a planned date for the beta?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:35:36 ] <KendallB> SpaceRat: Sure, but we also have a Windows driver product as well. We have lots of features in our drivers that even the Win9x drivers do not have ;-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:35:40 ] <Recusant> Windows users don't seem to mind paying for SciTech Display Doctor on Windows.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:35:42 ] <SpaceRat> TomR: but for many users out there, it will just be a fix for lousy vendor drivers...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:35:55 ] <TomR> We'll I guess you get what you pay for. :) If you want to get SDD from your hardware vendor for free, then apply some pressure to the to get a license from SciTech. :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:35:56 ] <SpaceRat> Recusant: grin
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:36:06 ] <madodel> Tom: what about OS/2 game developers? I have heard there is a runtime version of SDD. Will that be available for developers to incorporate into games?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:36:17 ] <SpaceRat> TomR: well, i'm just telling you this to keep your expectancies on customer responsiveness low...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:36:26 ] <Recusant> SpaceRat: I think most windows drivers are lousy. Only a few exceptions from companies like Matrox come to mind.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:36:33 ] <Sub0OS2> SpaceRat: there is a flip-side to this...the win users have to put up with a cheezy system in order to get the features free and also from what I'm seeing from what the SciTech it looks like their driver would out-do quite a few windows driver sets...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:36:49 ] <SpaceRat> Recusant: all windows drivers are great stuff compared to most OS/2 drivers...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:37:04 ] <madodel> SpaceRat: I disagree. I think OS/2 users will gladly pay a small sum for decent universal drivers
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:37:13 ] <SpaceRat> Recusant: i've seen no chips but Trident and Matrox that can even produce bug free output at least...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:37:27 ] <Recusant> Sub0OS2: I agree with you. I'd buy a windows version of SDD to replace the S3 drivers we're using at work. :-P
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:37:29 ] <Death_Syn> If I can see a demoversion that proves worthiness to me, I'd be willing to pay for these drivers, but that's me
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:37:29 ] <Swanee> madodel: Amen. I will.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:37:30 ] * Sub0OS2 notes he would pay more than the suggested $39.95 for the drivers if they are high in quality...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:37:34 ] <Judy> madodel: I totally agree
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:37:34 ] <TomR> Yes. There will be a run time version of SDD for game developers that want to have full screen OS/2 support. The drivers will be used automatically by any application that uses SciTech MGL, which is a free, directX like graphics library.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:37:51 ] <madodel> I'd love a decent driver for my Imagine 128-2
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:38:10 ] <Death_Syn> Guard: never needed it
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:38:15 ] <herbie> maod: agree
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:38:17 ] <Recusant> I'd pay $40 for Matrox drivers that let me specifically and easily define my own resolutions like 1440x512. :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:38:23 ] <Klaus> KendallB: I've heared something about SciTech - Free86/2 Drivers? (Drivers for XFree for OS/2) are they pm-based or fullscreen?? ... and what's with fullscreen WinOS/2 drivers ??
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:38:41 ] <herbie> madodel: agree
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:38:59 ] <Sub0OS2> TomR: that brings up a question...I'm currently developing a 3d fighting game(along the lines of Mortal Kombat 4) for OS/2...what would be the licencing fee for using the developer's graphics SDK?(ballpark figure)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:39:14 ] <TomR> What is the significance of 1440x512?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:39:26 ] <SpaceRat> TomR: sounds kewl
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:39:44 ] <KendallB> Klaus: We already have XFree86 running on our drivers under Linux and soon FreeBSD. It is a natural extension of this to get our drivers working on OS/2 as well.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:39:51 ] <Headache> wide screen for dvd =)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:40:01 ] <KendallB> Klaus: However our drivers are fullscreen only. I have looked into doing PM seamless XFree86 support, but it is complicated (perhaps one day ;-).
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:40:12 ] <SpaceRat> Headache: MP3 playboy from DVD with a vapor-ware MP3-player?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:40:21 ] <KendallB> Klaus: WinOS/2 works just great in both fullscreen and seamless in all our drivers, on all supported chips.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:40:32 ] <Recusant> TomR: It's a resolution used on the Amiga for high precision NTSC video editing through the Video Toaster.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:40:48 ] <SpaceRat> KendallB: some ELSA users want different resolutions in FS OS/2 and FS WinOS/2...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:41:05 ] <TomR> Well that
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:41:19 ] <Guardian_> KendallB: does SDD support other acceleration features of unrelated video features like 3D or MPEG?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:41:22 ] <KendallB> SpaceRat: Hmmm, I am not sure if we can support this because that stuff is handled for us by GRADD.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:41:29 ] <Headache> what would be the advantages of using SDD drivers over the matrox drivers I use now?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:41:56 ] <TomR> 's exactly why we created Dial-A-Mode(tm). There is no way that we can possiblly anticipate all the different modes that people need.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:41:57 ] <herbie> KendallB: someone has made a DIVE Xfree server, but it's an alpha release, very buggy. I think making such a DIVE server would be easier, and would be a good thing (while not exactly seamless)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:43:24 ] <JohnY> I have used most OS/2 video drivers - I'd pay for stable, fast drivers with good winos2...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:43:25 ] <Judy> if you have three systems, are you expected to by a license for each machine?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:43:31 ] <KendallB> Headache: Our drivers have lots more features, will hopefully be faster and wont crash your system ;-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:43:42 ] <SpaceRat> Judy: simply don't tell ;->
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:43:48 ] <TomR> Yes. A licence would be required for each machine.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:44:02 ] <Swanee> SpaceRat: Judy's not like that. :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:44:05 ] <Death_Syn> TomR: would there be any discounts for multiple licenses?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:44:06 ] <Judy> are these supported in Warp 3 also?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:44:16 ] <KendallB> Guardian: Our initial beta driver may not have hardware video, but we are working on this and it be in the final release.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:44:26 ] <SpaceRat> you are allowed to do everything, you simply shouldn't allow you to be caught... ;->
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:44:37 ] <Headache> KendallB: my system doesnt crash... seems fast (how much faster will it be?) and what kinds of features?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:44:41 ] <KendallB> herbie: The DIVE seamless XFree86 driver just has an X desktop in a window, rather than being real seamless.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:44:53 ] <TomR> We would condider multi unit pricing. We currently only offer that for large volume purchases
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:44:55 ] <wildrose> kendallb: if we buy now, will be get free updates for life?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:45:15 ] <Death_Syn> I've got 4 machines I could that could use accelerated drivers
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:45:29 ] <Swanee> And the lives of our decendants?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:45:31 ] <Swanee> :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:45:32 ] <Death_Syn> TomR: is there a place we can go to look at support video chipsets?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:45:37 ] <KendallB> Judy: We support any system that supports DIVE. This means that we support Warp 3 with fixpack 35 or above (I think that is the one).
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:45:45 ] <KendallB> Judy: Sorry, I mean't GRADD ;-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:46:02 ] <TomR> Minor updates are included, but you don't get them for life. If we make a major change to the software, we always offer existing users a break
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:46:31 ] <KendallB> wildrose: No, because then I would be out of a job and you wouldn't get any more updates ;-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:46:40 ] <KoolAde> I use the gradd drivers right now from IBM and they seem to be a little slower than my Matrox drivers were are yours going to be faster
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:46:42 ] <Swanee> KendallB: :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:47:33 ] <Judy> I can dcc the beta form to those that want it
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:47:43 ] <SpaceRat> i have it on DCC 8-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:47:48 ] <SpaceRat> pack #11 i think
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:47:51 ] * Sub0OS2 notes that he doesn't feel that free updates for life is fair to the developer...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:47:59 ] <KendallB> Headache: The speed difference will depend on the driver design. All our drivers are as fast as we can get them, but we are bound by the performance of GRADD itself. However IBM is willing to work with us if we identify performance bottlenecks in GRADD to help get better performance out of our drivers.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:48:03 ] <Sub0OS2> bug fixes should be free...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:48:06 ] <KoolAde> Judy hello and I would be interested
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:48:24 ] <Sub0OS2> however feature additions should be a pay-per-update thing...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:48:28 ] <TomR> For a list of graphics chips that SciTech support, you can check out the SciTech web page at http://www.scitechsoft.com
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:48:47 ] <herbie> KendallB: i missed the answer about anti-aliased fonts...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:49:02 ] <Kerni> KendallB: what about font anti-aliasing support ?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:49:36 ] * TeKToN has set away! (auto away after idling 15 minutes) .?.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:50:02 ] <Death_Syn> KendallB: in case you missed their question. it was concerning whether the IBM team you are in contact with would be able/willing to add anti-aliasing support to the GPI for fonts
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:50:09 ] <Smazesofa> KendallB: are you supporting stuff like TV-out? (for Mystique G200)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:50:27 ] * Sub0OS2 reads about the MGL system and bows down to the SciTech programmers...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:50:56 ] <SpaceRat> Sub0OS2: i.e.: not TOO low ;->
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:50:59 ] <KendallB> Right, anti-aliased fonts. We have been talking with the developers of FreeType and some guys at IBM about anti-aliased font support. The status at this stage is that it is 'doable', but not in our first release. We need some changes to be made to OS/2 itself, and we need to do some more investigation work on how to implement it properly.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:51:34 ] <herbie> KendallB: well, that's nearly good news
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:51:35 ] <Recusant> Anti-aliased fonts are like a holy grail for OS/2.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:51:57 ] <SpaceRat> IMHO, Ignorant Business Masochists (IBM) should license the whole SDD/2 w/o the bells'n'whistles...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:51:58 ] <Sub0OS2> The second that there is OS/2 support for MGL under warp I'll buy it in a heartbeat...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:51:59 ] <Guardian_> Recusant as long as it prints OK, I don't care about font though ;)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:52:14 ] <KendallB> Some of the people within IBM seem keen to help out and get some of the stuff done for anti-alised fonts, and we may be able to design an interface between FreeType and our drivers to bypass stuff and make it work on existing systems. However that all needs to be looked into some more ;-).
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:52:47 ] <Kerni> KendallB: just do it :-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:52:49 ] <TomR> sub0OS/2: SciTech is certainly open to the idea of an IBM licence
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:52:52 ] <Dark> KendallB: I stopped using os/2 cause my video card wasn't supported... How quickly can I get either a beta, or complete edition (I wanna switch back. X is annoying..) I'd place an order now if you were ready ;)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:53:02 ] <herbie> KendallB: freetype only supports TrueType. is it going to change?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:53:04 ] <KendallB> Sub0OS2: We expect to have an MGL version for OS/2 (at least in beta) by the time we do the final OS/2 product release.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:53:22 ] <Judy> KendallB: do you happen to be working with Sam Dietweiller?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:53:26 ] <SpaceRat> herbie: Freetype project is working on that
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:53:37 ] <herbie> SpaceRat: good news
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:53:38 ] <SpaceRat> herbie: Type1 fonts that is...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:53:43 ] <KendallB> Dark: What graphics hardware do you have? And to get on the beta program Judy can send you the beta request form (or it is on DCC 8).
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:53:46 ] <Sub0OS2> KendallB: kewl...I'll keep an eye on your site for that one...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:54:06 ] <Dark> KendallB: Viper v330 for pci
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:54:07 ] <Sub0OS2> KendallB: is there any plans for MGL for Linux and other unixes?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:54:21 ] <herbie> KendallB: I'm in the beta program. when are we supposed to receive it?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:54:32 ] <KendallB> Herbie: You got me on that one. We can only support what FreeType supports, since the IBM font renders do not support anit-aliasing. What else other than TrueType do you need?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:54:38 ] <Kerni> KendallB: are you working together with the wincast-driver team, to get their new gradd driver work better ?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:54:51 ] <Dark> KendallB: Thanks!
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:55:03 ] <KendallB> Judy: No, I am not sure who Sam is?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:55:05 ] <SpaceRat> KendallB: will SDD/2 make teeths whiter?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:55:11 ] <SpaceRat> KendallB: sorry, couldn't resist...
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:55:15 ] <herbie> KendallB: SpaceRat already told me that FreeType will do Type1. So there's no problem at all
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:55:28 ] <KendallB> Dark: We may not have support for that in our first beta, but it is planned and should be done soon.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:55:28 ] <JohnY> Kendall - have you seen any odd interaction between seamless winos2 netscape audio plugins and your beta drivers like exist in some ELSA drivers?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:55:28 ] <SpaceRat> herbie: *MIGHT*
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:55:31 ] <Death_Syn> herbie: it doesn't do it yet... give time
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:55:32 ] <Judy> kendallB: he's IBM's device driver guru
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:55:54 ] <herbie> SpaceRat: well, let's hope :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:56:03 ] <KendallB> herbie: We hope to have a beta later this week, or sometime next week.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:56:13 ] <herbie> KendallB: GREAT!
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:56:21 ] <KendallB> kerni: I am not familiar with WinCast. What do they do?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:56:32 ] <SpaceRat> KendallB: Hauppauge drivers
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:56:35 ] <Headache> will TV-out on Millenium g200 be supported?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:56:43 ] <Death_Syn> KendallB: WinCast is Hauppauge's TV tuner card
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:57:10 ] <Headache> ever is a long time spacewumpus
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:57:16 ] <KendallB> JohnY: I am not familiar with such problems, and once we start beta testing we will get more of an idea about such potential problems and try to fix them if they crop up.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:58:04 ] <Kerni> KendallB: hauppauge TV card-drivers
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:58:09 ] <KendallB> Sub0OS2: Yes, we already have MGL and SDD both ported to Linux. SDD is in a preview release mode, and MGL is yet to be released (MGL 5.0 will have DOS, Windows, OS/2, QNX and Linux out of the box ;-).
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:58:14 ] <Death_Syn> TomR: Will Scitech offer a pre-ordering program for those who wish to go ahead and order before release?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:58:17 ] <Headache> SpaceRat: this is a place to discuss SDD/2 not warpamp
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:58:42 ] <wildrose> wow, QNX
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:58:44 ] <Sub0OS2> KendallB: That cliches it...I'm buying a copy the second it goes GA on warp...8')
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:58:50 ] <TomR> Death: Hauppauge is on the SDD beta program. They are excited about SDD for OS/2 since it will solve a bunch of their driver compatibility problems.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:58:51 ] <KendallB> Headache: We have added support for TVout, but we have not yet done the work on the G200 cards yet. However we will be doing this and we will support TVOut on all the cards that support it that we can get the code working on.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:58:54 ] <SpaceRat> Headache: sure, but you are asking KendallB the same way, that just reminded me
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:59:21 ] <SpaceRat> TomR: uhm
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:59:28 ] <SpaceRat> TomR: please, THEIR drivers?
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:59:46 ] <TomR> Death: Yes, we will allow customers to order SDD for OS/2 during the beta/preview period for a discount.
[ -30-98 ] [ 20:59:59 ] <Death_Syn> ooh good
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:00:05 ] <JohnY> KendallB - beta form is in ;)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:00:40 ] <herbie> KendallB: I'm willing to buy you product as soon as I can, BUT (sorry for this question) won't you screw us up (like others) as soon as you realize the OS/2 market is smaller than you thought??
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:00:53 ] <KendallB> SpaceRat: It is their problem because their customers ring them when the drivers dont work, event though the real problem is the graphics card drivers ;-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:01:18 ] <Guardian_> herbie of course they will, at least we'll have one or two versions
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:01:26 ] <herbie> Guardian_: :-)))
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:01:27 ] <SpaceRat> KendallB: well, officially, Hauppauge WinTV cards aren't supported in OS/2...
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:01:59 ] <madodel> SpaceRat: They are working on OS/2 support
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:01:59 ] <SpaceRat> KendallB: no drivers, no conflicts ;>
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:02:10 ] <SpaceRat> madodel: oh
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:02:25 ] <SpaceRat> madodel: hope they get the first beta done before Tim's driver completed ;->>>
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:02:28 ] <Headache> isnt that helpfuyl.. they have been working on them for an awfully long time
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:02:31 ] <KendallB> herbie: The OS/2 market is actually larger than we thought. Not only have we had *lots* of corporations wishing to buy multiple copies for machines in their offices (such as banks), we have had lots of interest from others as well for OEM systems and IHV bundling.
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:02:51 ] <Projects> cool
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:02:58 ] <herbie> KendallB: again: GOOD NEWS!
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:03:04 ] <SpaceRat> yo
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:03:06 ] <SpaceRat> kewl
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:03:08 ] <Dark> KendallB: Pass that on to other developers...
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:03:16 ] <Death_Syn> big iron... I likes
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:03:18 ] <wildrose> kendallB: could you tell everyone else that please?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:03:19 ] <Guardian_> really, MGL is suited for servers, that's news
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:03:27 ] <herbie> hope the game developers will jump on the wagon
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:03:27 ] <KendallB> Herbie: Besides, the way we have designed our drivers, is that once the OS/2 specific code is written, any new chips we add support for instantly get OS/2 driver support, since th exact same *binary* is used on all supported OS'es, such as Linux, QNX, Windows and OS/2.
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:03:29 ] <madodel> Ah, IBM isn't insisting you code injava are they?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:03:33 ] <madodel> :-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:03:44 ] <SpaceRat> i'm doing OS/2 for years, i only believe in something that i can double-click on...
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:03:48 ] <herbie> madodel: :-DDD
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:04:03 ] <KendallB> SpaceRat: Well unofficially they are looking for solutions since a lot of people using OS/2 appear to have bought them ;-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:04:05 ] * madodel couldn't resist
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:04:05 ] <wildrose> spacerat: no gui, no can dui?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:04:19 ] <Projects> hehehe
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:04:21 ] <SpaceRat> wildrose: ?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:04:24 ] <herbie> SpaceRat: SDD will have a single-click install program :-)))
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:04:30 ] <Guardian_> Dark: usually programs developped for OS/2 don't get installed on servers, ie.: don't get selled at all
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:04:35 ] <Guardian_> sold
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:04:41 ] <SpaceRat> herbie: once you drag it to the WarpCenter...
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:04:55 ] <KendallB> Guardian: No, SDD not MGL is what banks are after ;-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:05:08 ] <Guardian_> KendallB oh.. whichever ;)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:05:16 ] <SpaceRat> banks wanted to run at 1440*512 forever ;->>
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:05:27 ] <KendallB> madodel: No, not for OS/2. For their new JavaOS for business I understand the drivers are 50% Java. Yikes!
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:05:32 ] <SpaceRat> sarcasm/2 [tm]
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:05:49 ] <Klaus> KendallB: will it be possible to install your video driver on an OS/2 sytem with "protectonly=yes" ?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:06:01 ] <Death_Syn> SpaceRat: banks just want ot buy those cheapo i740 cards and such and be able to use them under an environment that's cheap to maintain... OS/2 is that environment
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:06:19 ] * Dark wonders what NVidia chipset if on the viper v330 short of opening his case...
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:06:33 ] <herbie> is someone already logging this?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:06:33 ] <SpaceRat> Death_Syn: too sad Intel already has these drivers...
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:06:39 ] <KendallB> Klaus: Yes, our drivers are completely NoBIOS and do not use the BIOS for anything. Hence we dont need DOS support to run our drivers.
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:07:00 ] <Sector> herbie: yes it's being logged
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:07:03 ] <KendallB> Dark: It is a Riva128 TNT
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:07:24 ] <Dark> KendallB: I thought there was more than just Riva128 :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:07:45 ] * Dark feels like a fool...
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:07:47 ] <Death_Syn> Dark: probably Diamond funky bios or something
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:07:48 ] <KendallB> Dark: Well there is the original 128, then the 128ZX and now the TNT :-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:07:55 ] <Headache> was the question about 3d accelration support answered?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:07:55 ] <madodel> herbie: yes it's being logged
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:08:03 ] <Dark> KendallB: hehe..
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:08:10 ] <Death_Syn> Head: yes, not in initial release
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:08:21 ] <Swanee> Did the fact that it is Gradd based help cut development time? (Is gradd a step in the right direction for driver development?)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:09:13 ] <Guardian_> Headache planned for da future, ie.: who knows
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:09:23 ] <SpaceRat> i want flying papers....
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:09:25 ] <SpaceRat> ;->
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:09:33 ] <KendallB> Headache: We are working on 3D hardware acceleration, but it wont be in the first release. We have been working heavily on cross platform OpenGL drivers, so we plan to get full 3D hardware support via OpenGL onto OS/2 (and Linux, QNX, Windows etc).
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:10:16 ] <Headache> How old of a company is SciTech? and how come it took so long for you to decide to support OS/2?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:10:19 ] <Dark> woohoo.. OpenGL.. (This gets better and better...) Watch out Quake... It starts with Windows, follows up on Linux, but beware OS/2!
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:10:30 ] * Dark is mildly excited.
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:10:46 ] * Headache isnt.. game developers dont do OS/2
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:10:56 ] <KendallB> Swanee: GRADD did cut the development time of our drivers significantly. We originally wanted to write full OS/2 drivers since some people had said GRADD was slow, but when we looked into this, the complexity of a full driver is over the top (it's no wonder IHV's developed buggy drivers). GRADD is definately a step in the right direction, and IBM is willing to work with us an improve the GRADD driver model if we find performance problems.
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:11:04 ] <Dark> Headache: we got our little converter utility :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:11:09 ] <herbie> Headache: maybe they will, if OS/2 become a viable solution
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:11:33 ] * Dark plans to camp out on ID's front lawn...
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:11:35 ] <madodel> *judy* no idea
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:11:37 ] <Klaus> KendallB: Will win32os2 programs (converted with pe2lx) be able to use DirectX with the DisplayDoctor-Driver?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:12:00 ] <Judy> what chipset does the Matrox Millennium use?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:12:03 ] <Swanee> KendallB: It good to hear that it really is a good decision and not "just another dumb idea" that got too complex.
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:12:11 ] <Judy> the MGA Millennium
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:12:16 ] <herbie> KendallB: is developing OS/2 drivers so harder than developing win drivers?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:12:20 ] <KendallB> Headache: SciTech has been around for over 5 years. I actually wanted to support OS/2 a long time ago, but it tooks us five years to finally build the cross platform driver framework that we needed to be able to support multiple OS'es. Once we got that defined and implemented (Nucleus), doing OS/2 drivers was the easy part ;-).
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:12:29 ] <JohnY> Kendall or Tom - Banshee 2D support ?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:12:30 ] <KendallB> Headache: Also GRADD helped a *LOT*.
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:13:02 ] <Klaus> Judy: The Millenium I: MGA2064W
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:13:07 ] <Judy> thx :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:13:22 ] <KendallB> Klaus: Dunno about that one. We have DirectX drivers for windows so conceptually it is possible, but who knows ;-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:13:26 ] <Headache> so, have you found any GRADD bottlenecks?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:13:29 ] <KoolAde> Klaus what does the Mill II have
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:14:24 ] <KendallB> Swanee: There are some things about GRADD that I would have done differently, but overall the system is not too bad and we have been pleased with the results so far.
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:14:34 ] <Death_Syn> Mill II has MGA2164W
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:14:54 ] <Swanee> KendallB: Good to hear. :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:14:54 ] <KoolAde> Death_Syn thanks
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:15:30 ] <Headache> KendallB: are you gonig to be doing drivers for BeOS?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:15:37 ] <TomR> Judy: Yes, SciTech would like to support the Bahshee, but so far 3Dfx has not given us the information we need. We are discussing the matter with them and hope to have it resolved soon, but in the mean time we encourage all OS/2 users to let 3Dfx know that you want them to work with SciTech. :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:16:01 ] <KendallB> Herbie: Developing OS/2 drivers is different to developing Windows drivers. OS/2 protected process memory space is a real pain (you have to map your shared memory into every new process that attached to the graphics subsystem!). But on Windows the display drivers are 16-bit, so building code to call into our 32-bit flat model drivers is a royal pain also ;-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:16:27 ] <KendallB> Headache: Not currently, but I have yet to do any extensive performance profiling and comparisons against other IHV drivers.
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:16:27 ] <Judy> JohnY: there's your answer :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:16:35 ] <Headache> TomR: when you get info from companies about their chipsets... do they make you buy them? or just sign NDA's?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:16:56 ] <herbie> KendallB: the drivers are 16-bit on win??!?!?! oh my...
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:17:20 ] <KendallB> Headache: We would love to support the BeOS, as soon as Be starts to support us (they have been ignoring us so far).
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:17:22 ] <wildrose> herbie: and you though windoze was 32 bit!
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:17:35 ] <SpaceRat> herbie: HPFS.IFS is 16bit too, so stay cool :->
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:17:37 ] <TomR> Just NDA's usally. If they ask us to buy them, they usually don't understand what our company does, so we proceed to educate them. :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:17:38 ] <herbie> wildrose: never thought :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:18:05 ] <SpaceRat> wildrose: W95 is 24bit ;->
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:18:05 ] <KendallB> Headache: We have to sign NDA's up the wazzoo, and plead with them constantly ;-(.
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:18:09 ] <Guardian_> KendallB WinNT drivers are fully 16 bits?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:18:12 ] <herbie> SpaceRat: I know, it comes from M$ :-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:18:43 ] <madodel> winDOS9x is a 2bit OS
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:18:48 ] <KendallB> herbie: I think I lost most of my hair developing our Windows 95 display drivers ;-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:18:50 ] <Judy> KendallB: it's a shame that you have to beg to support THEIR product!
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:18:58 ] <herbie> KendallB: :-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:19:40 ] <SpaceRat> hmmm
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:19:43 ] <KendallB> Guardian: WinNT drivers are fully 32-bit flat model code.
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:19:44 ] <SpaceRat> portable engine...
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:19:55 ] <SpaceRat> that reminds me that i have no Matrox driver for GEM/3...
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:20:40 ] <KendallB> Judy: Well it does depend on the company. Some companies like ATI send us the latest chips and specs when they roll off the production line. Others like Matrox take convincing but eventually get us the specs. Then others like 3Dfx hold out and we are still pleading with them.
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:20:53 ] <SpaceRat> KendallB: and WIndows 98 ? i thought they were unified, W98 and NT5 ....
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:21:16 ] <herbie> KendallB: educate us about your full screen support under OS/2 :-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:21:23 ] <KoolAde> KendalB I might have missed this but when do you plan on releasing beta drivers and are the more advanced at this point and time than the current gradd drivers that IBM has out. If so are they much faster and cleaner
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:21:27 ] <wildrose> kendallb: that cuz ATI is a good 'ol canadian compant ;)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:21:44 ] <SpaceRat> wildrose: nah
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:21:56 ] <KendallB> SpaceRat: Microsoft's PR engine has done a great job of convincing people eh! Display drivers on Win98 are still 16-bit and not portable in the least to Windows NT (but Microsoft keeps very quiet about that in the press).
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:21:59 ] <SpaceRat> wildrose: that's because ATI needs good drivers badly...
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:22:10 ] <wildrose> spacerat: well, that too ;)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:22:11 ] <Headache> KendallB: 3dfx is trying to fragment the marketplace... their time has come and past and being pproprietary only works in their favor at this point
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:22:13 ] <SpaceRat> ah, cool
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:22:50 ] <JohnY> Kendall how about S3 Savage (already runs pretty wee\ll with Gengradd 0.77) ?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:23:01 ] <KendallB> KoolAde: Our drivers support all features of the hardware, including pattern fills, transparent blits, hardware cursors and line drawing. Hence our drivers should be much better and faster than the IBM GRADD drivers.
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:23:23 ] <SpaceRat> KendallB: well, that's the least we can expect
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:23:26 ] <SpaceRat> IBMGRADD suxx...
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:24:06 ] <Swanee> KendallB: I'm really looking forward to trying it. :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:24:22 ] <KendallB> herbie: We have implemented a complete SDDPMI.DLL driver for fullscreen OS/2 support. You get extended text modes and linear framebuffer modes in all resolutions and color depths that our drivers support. If you have old programs that use the Vio API's for fullscreen graphics under OS/2, with our drivers installed thay can run in any color depth and resolution.
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:24:55 ] <SpaceRat> KendallB: will this change anything for DOS games?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:24:59 ] <herbie> KendallB: great. u will also have full-screen DIVE?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:25:01 ] <Death_Syn> did the scitechsoft httpd just die? i'm suddenly unable to connect
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:25:05 ] <SpaceRat> KendallB: like: Descent runs in a Window...
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:25:07 ] <KendallB> JohnY: We dont have Savage3D support yet, but we are expecting the specs and sample hardware from S3 any day now so we will be supporting it in our drivers.
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:25:12 ] <SpaceRat> KendallB: Warcraft needs fullscreen...
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:25:17 ] <KoolAde> KendalB I look foward to installing your drivers as I am very upset with the current drivers that are avaible for my card right now the gradd are dog slow and the 2.21 drivers for matrox sux also.
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:25:47 ] <SpaceRat> KoolAde: and imagine, the Matrox drivers are still the best you can get for OS/2...
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:26:00 ] * wildrose contemplates dropping to dos for a little warcraft....
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:26:22 ] <Judy>
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:26:25 ] <SpaceRat> Warcraft 1 and Warcraft 2 work pretty well in full-screen...
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:26:35 ] <KendallB> SpaceRat: At this point we will not have any extra support for DOS games other than our DOS versions of UniVBE. However we have been looking into build a virtual VBE/Core 3.0 BIOS for DOS boxes like we have done under Windows. If we can implement this, then DOS games will get all those same features that our Windows users have had for users. But it also depends on whether our customers want it (since it will be complex and diffficult to implement).
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:27:11 ] <Klaus> SpaceRat: no sorry, the old Elsa Drivers are the best you can get for OS/2 (until end of the week? ,-))
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:27:26 ] <SpaceRat> Klaus: don't make me laugh...
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:27:26 ] <KendallB> herbie: Fullscreen DIVE is not really useful, since the only mode it supports is 320x200 VGA mode. We are developing much better replacements for this in our MGL libraries that will use our Nucleus device drivers directly, and bypass PM to go fullscreen.
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:27:33 ] <SpaceRat> Klaus: i had an ELSA myself...
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:27:42 ] <Guardian_> no no, OMF 2097 rulez (ugh)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:27:45 ] <SpaceRat> Klaus: if you continue, i might even kill you, that bad was it...
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:28:04 ] <herbie> KendallB: i mean: will we able to switch to fullscreen from our DIVE-enabled games?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:28:13 ] <Judy> KendallB and TomR: thanks for supporting OS/2! I think you will become very popular in the OS/2 community :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:28:25 ] <KendallB> SpaceRat: No, we are not going to bother virtualising games in a window because the performance sucks.
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:29:35 ] * KoolAde says a big hearty Thank You and Wish KindallB and TomR the best cause we really need decent drivers that dont crash all the time :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:29:35 ] <Headache> TomR and KendallB: can I have a free copy?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:29:46 ] <Headache> figured I'd ask =)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:29:58 ] <KoolAde> Headache ROTFL
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:29:58 ] <TomR> Judy: Thanks. I have been working with OS/2 since v1.0 and have always had a place in my heart for it. Also, SciTech as a company believes in the free market and want to make sure that device drivers are no longer a barrier to competition in the operating systems market.
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:30:28 ] <herbie> KendallB: i mean: will we be able to switch to fullscreen from our DIVE-enabled games? (be it full-screen DIVE or anything better)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:30:30 ] <Swanee> TomR: We're glad you're there. :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:30:33 ] <KendallB> herbie: From what I have heard from IBM, fullscreen DIVE never really existed and there was no API around to be able to support this. However we are looking into some technology to allow you to dynamically switch the resolution to say 400x300, run your game and then switch back to the orginal desktop. It will have to be done manually (or perhaps you can create a CMD file to do it for you ;-). This would be a virtual desktop, in that PM still thinks it is 102
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:30:46 ] <KendallB> Headache: Sure, you can have a free copy for 21 days ;-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:31:04 ] <SpaceRat> KendallB: NOW? ;->
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:31:05 ] <Klaus> KendallB: so one final question, what's the fastest Videocard under SciTech's DisplayDoctor?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:31:20 ] <herbie> KendallB: basically it is what the Matrox drivers are doing now
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:31:24 ] <SpaceRat> Matrox Millenium G200 :->
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:31:41 ] <JohnY> SpaceRat - Elsa 1.22 full and 1.04 Gradd are pretty good on S3 ...
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:31:41 ] <KendallB> SpaceRate: Well, perhaps by next week ;-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:31:51 ] <SpaceRat> JohnY: stop it!
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:32:02 ] <SpaceRat> JohnY: i get really angry when i hear "ELSA"
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:32:16 ] <KendallB> Klaus: From my benchmarking (not under OS/2 but general benchmarking), I think the Matrox cards are some of the fastest. The G200 simply screams in 2D.
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:32:36 ] <KendallB> Herbie: Yes, probably ;-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:32:43 ] <Klaus> KendallB: ok, thanks .-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:32:43 ] <herbie> :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:32:45 ] <Judy> <--next mb will have an agp slot!
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:33:10 ] <Recusant> Judy: G200 PCI edition until then.
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:33:12 ] * herbie already has an agp slot... full with a Matrox G200 :-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:33:30 ] <Judy> Recusant: not worth it..I plan to upgrade after xmas
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:33:35 ] <Recusant> Although I must admit, this G200 is awesome. It's FAST.
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:34:00 ] <KendallB> Judy: Tom and I have to leave now, so we want to say thanks and wrap this up. Any last minute questions?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:34:07 ] <herbie> KendallB: will SDD take advantage of the AGP slot features?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:34:10 ] <SpaceRat> KendallB: will you support TV *IN* on cards that allow it? like Matrox Marvel G200...
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:34:18 ] <Swanee> Judy: Are you waiting to see what I got you for chistmas before you buy just in case? :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:34:38 ] <Smazesofa> KendallB: have you received specs on the next powervr chipset yet?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:34:49 ] <Judy> KendallB and Tom: thank you for the very informative session.....can we plan another speakup once the drivers are in beta testing?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:34:54 ] <KendallB> Herbie: We will not be using AGP specific features yet, but we will be supporting this in our 3D drivers (2D does not gain much from AGP specific stuff; AGP for 2D is just as much faster PCI bus).
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:35:01 ] <KoolAde> Thanks Again KendallB and TomR best of luck with the drivers
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:35:03 ] <Judy> Swanee: of course!!! make sure the case is ATX btw :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:35:06 ] <Swanee> KendallB & TomR Thank you so much for your time. This has been really interesting!
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:35:12 ] <SpaceRat> ATX suxx
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:35:26 ] <KendallB> SpaceRat: Tom definately wants me to write the code to support TV tuner devices, so it will get done eventually ;-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:35:26 ] <herbie> THANK YOU KendallB and TomR!!
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:35:35 ] <SpaceRat> KendallB: cool
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:35:42 ] <SpaceRat> KendallB: that's really pretty cool
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:35:49 ] <madodel> December 7, 1998 - SpeakUp with Sundial Systems. Focus on DBExpert database software.
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:35:49 ] <Sub0OS2> KendallB, TomR: thanx for all the info...
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:35:54 ] <Swanee> Judy: I didn't say I'd get what you wanted, I just thought that YOU thought that's what i was getting you. :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:35:56 ] <SpaceRat> KendallB: especially as even the Win95 apps from Hauppauge suck...
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:36:01 ] <KendallB> Judy: Sure, we can plan another IRC session if you would like, perhaps next month?
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:36:10 ] <Judy> KendallB: I'll be in touch :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:36:17 ] <TomR> Just to clarify, SDD fully support AGP cards right now.
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:36:31 ] <SpaceRat> tnx KendallB & TomR for all news and olds :-)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:36:47 ] <Judy> this has been a great session!
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:36:50 ] <KendallB> Judy: Great! Good talking to you guys, and we will see you all on the ether...
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:36:56 ] <JohnY> SpaceRat even Gengradd runs pretty well on the Savage3D ;)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:37:00 ] <Judy> thx again :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:37:06 ] <SpaceRat> JohnY: hmpf
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:37:09 ] <KendallB> Byyyyeeee..
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:37:20 ] <KoolAde> well I will be sending in my request for beta drivers and I will gladly send my money as I give it to all the other Co. and they dont care how bad their drivers are
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:37:32 ] <TomR> Thanks all. I just want to remind everyone that is interested to get on the SDD for OS/2 beta program!
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:38:07 ] <Judy> TomR: I think tonight has generated some beta testers :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:38:23 ] <Swanee> TomR: Signed up a week ago TomR! Don't forget me. :)
[ -30-98 ] [ 21:38:25 ] <TomR> Bye all!