General VOICE Meeting - 18 December 2004

There was no published agenda.
Items were taken from the 4 December 2004 meeting agenda.

Summary - Decisions/Announcements Made
1. Further discussion of the meeting format (IRC, maillist, forum) was held. Advantages and disadvantages are to be prepared and provided to members for their consideration prior to a vote. The possible options for meeting format are: 1. IRC only; 2. Maillist only; 3. Forum only; 4. IRC and Maillist combination; 5. IRC and Forum combination; 6. IRC, Maillist and Forum combination.
2. After discussion the first meeting for January was cancelled as it falls on January 1st, 2005.
3. The treasurer reported that payment had been received by Warpstock, Inc. in response to question at the last meeting.
4. The treasurer will prepare a brief financial report to be posted on the website.
5. Next scheduled meeting is the 15th of January 2004.

Meeting Log
Chairman of the meeting Roderick Klein called the meeting to order at 15:31:48 EST
<eCSNL> First of all I declare this meeting opened.
<Gord> Do we have an agenda?
<eCSNL> No
<Gord> I have a topic for discussion.
<eCSNL> But the agenda of last meeting can used. Still loads of topics open for discussion.
<Gord> What is the first one?
<eCSNL> Gordon last meeting you where not 100% certain if Warpstock Inc.
<eCSNL> was paid its donation that we promised. Did you check this ?
<Gord> Yes. They were paid $750 back in the spring. Is that what you are referring to?
<eCSNL> yes
<Gord> Yes, I sent a money order.
<eCSNL> But I thought last meeting you where not 100% certain if the money was transferred I wanted that to be cleared up :-)
<Gord> Stanley said he got it.
<eCSNL> OK of the agenda.
<eCSNL> About that document I have been talking about. Its half way and its on my laptop. I should be able to transfer all remaining documents to my new laptop. Next meeting it will be finished.
<eCSNL> This document will contain points what VOICE is doing and plans what we are going to do.
<eCSNL> Kind of suggestion framework.
<eCSNL> Its 60% finished.
<eCSNL> The next point on the agenda is: Netlabs
<eCSNL> I kicked of another E-mail this week to Netlabs asking what projects are running and which require funding.
<eCSNL> I have sadly not received a response. I don't think you should indicate this as that they are not being interested. I know Adriaan Geschwend has a really busy life.
<eCSNL> That was the primary reason for this meeting.
<eCSNL> One thing that is the report
<eCSNL> I'm writing is that for next year we should put a financial report on our website.
<eCSNL> So people know where the money comes and goes to.
<eCSNL> Gordon mentioned this last meeting.
<eCSNL> Gordon could you look into making something of a financial report for 2004?
<eCSNL> It does not have to be anything fancy.
<Gord> OK
<Gord> It won't be.
<eCSNL> If it are just 2 or 3 pages showing what we received.
<eCSNL> Just says
<Gord> How about 2 or 3 lines?
<eCSNL> Membership fees: 112 members 10 students, 15 companies...
<eCSNL> Major expenses where money went to.
<Gord> OK
<eCSNL> Ken you also had an agenda point?
<eCSNL> What is that.
<KenKrchnr> None I know of :-)
<eCSNL> Oops sorry you had a point for discussion.
<eCSNL> What is that point.
<Gord> What about our meeting by forum instead of by IRC?
<KenKrchnr> I didn't have anything. I'm not sure what you had in mind.
<eCSNL> I'm personally in favour of a mailing list and Marc and Walter where in favour of the forum.
<Gord> I'm in favour of forum meetings, too.
<eCSNL> I would need to look back in the log files.
<eCSNL> What I remember is that there was in my opinion not a big majority for the forums and also not for the mailinglist.
<WalterOS2> Sounds about right.
<eCSNL> That's why I suggested that both sides write a small summary with the benefits and let the people read it.
<Gord> Well, to sum up, with the forums you have to go to it but all the data is in one place.
<WalterOS2> Roderick, what would you think of having regular (IRC) meetings and using the mailing list for business where voting and the like is required?
<Gord> With the mailing list finding all parts of the discussion may be tough but it comes to you.
<WalterOS2> Plus you can still enjoy some of the interactivity that comes from IRC meetings.
<Gord> A compromise might be to have the forum notify all participants by mail when a new contribution comes in.
<eCSNL> That's why I want a mailing list.
<eCSNL> And there are plenty of tricks to make the list readable via a web browser.
<eCSNL> In my opinion this topic is closed and I would like to suggest that we do what I suggested.
<eCSNL> One person should write a short summary why forums and another person mailing list.
<eCSNL> Then let via vote decide based on the two small summaries that are entered what people want.
<eCSNL> I also want to keep putting forward points why the mailing list is so much better.
<eCSNL> This is a discussion that goes no where in my opinion.
<eCSNL> That's why I suggest for E-mail and forum a short summary is written *why* a specific system is used.
<eCSNL> And Ken agreed there was not really a majority for any of the systems last meeting. Since its such an important change I want to do this properly.
<eCSNL> Then both texts are entered in the report and there will be a vote on the topic.
<eCSNL> The majority wins.
<eCSNL> Simple.
<eCSNL> Is there anybody who disagrees with this idea?
<Gord> I guess not.
<KenKrchnr> Actually, Ken wasn't at the last meeting. He was on vacation :-)
<WalterOS2> I thought this was about using the IRC vs. mailing list. Was I wrong?
<WalterOS2> I guess so. Confused as usual. :-)
<JWE> As I see it from the discussions, there are 6 possible future meeting options...
<JWE> Meeting Options: 1. IRC only; 2. Maillist only; 3. Forum only; 4. IRC and Maillist combination; 5. IRC and Forum combination; 6. IRC, Maillist and Forum combination.
<Gord> Well, that should certainly split the vote enough to prevent a majority.
<MADodel> You left out telepathy
<Gord> And renting a hall.
<MADodel> ;-)
<MADodel> Guess those last two aren't very practical
<Gord> Those position papers for the choices had better be good. :-)
<JWE> These last two were not part of earlier discussions and I have to agree, impractical.
<eCSNL> OK I will write in my report...
<WalterOS2> Thank you John for helping clarify the issue for me. :-)
<Gord> Yes, thanks, John
<jep_> I would vote for number five though...
<eCSNL> OK discussion closed.
<jep_> cause I find it practical to use IRC like this, but it's much easier to read news to go back and watch what has been said.
<eCSNL> I will write in my report and based on that text there will be a vote.
<eCSNL> There are multiple opinions.
<eCSNL> Put the opinions on paper and then vote.
<eCSNL> We can go on for hours about the pro and negative sides of the different opinions.
<WalterOS2> That might be fun, but probably a waste of time. :-)
<Gord> What is the next item on the agenda?
<eCSNL> A small item is that there will not a meeting next month.
<eCSNL> Well not the first Saturday of the month that is.
<WalterOS2> That's good.
<eCSNL> Since then it is the 1st of January...
<eCSNL> 2005
<eCSNL> And I guess not everybody will be able to drop in here because it was late that night
<eCSNL> or the Champagne was to good :-)
<JWE> There are 5 Saturdays in January 2005, I suggest the meeting be January 8th instead, and other events be moved ahead 1 week.
<eCSNL> Hmmm that Saturday may also not be possible I don't know yet.
<MADodel> You won't be recovered from New Years by then?
<eCSNL> No it might be I have another new years party at a museum where I work.
<eCSNL> Its quite a long trip by train back from there.
<eCSNL> Anyway we will see.
<WalterOS2> If the 3rd Saturday is OK for everyone, I suggest we just cancel the one on the 1st Saturday.
<eCSNL> Fine with me.
<Gord> OK
<WalterOS2> OK with me
<eCSNL> OK done.
<MADodel> OK
<JWE> If there is no other business, then, I move that we adjourn this meeting.
<eCSNL> one moment
<eCSNL> Yes we adjourn this meeting, who is favour of this?
<eCSNL> say aye
<JWE> Aye
<WalterOS2> Aye
<KenKrchnr> Aye
<MADodel> Aye
<Gord> Aye
Meeting adjourned 18 December 2004 at 16:39:07 EST